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Some updates on One Punch-Man

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AtomicSekiro said:
If Garou was pissing himself and doing everything he could to avoid Genos’ casual one-handed blasts, then the Spiral Incineration Cannon would’ve vaporised him.
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Heh, I would have said Garou might have been able to deflect it with WSRSF, but I forgot that in the manga fight he never tanks a single blast from Genos. What alternate rating are you proposing? Keep in mind, Royal Ripper, TTM, Suiryu and Choze will be scaling to Garou (relative to the High 7-C+ result) and that Bug God will upscale from him.
 
Garou compared Genos to TTM at least physically and Garou managed to hold out despite Genos trying to kill him. I would say we just downscale Genos's physical attacks from the High 7-C+ blast or just have all the characters affected be just High 7-C up scaling massively from BOS Genos.
 
I know some of yall hate using Murata statements buuuuuut.
Murata said Genos would need his upgraded attacks to harm Senior Centipede. So the scaling chain could start there instead.
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Captured with Lightshot
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Makes more sense than scaling everyone to a blast that likely would've killed Garou (he was weakened anyways).
 
Metal Bat slightly pumped up one shots Senior Centipede.
Garou can hurt pumped up Metal Bat. Royal Ripper and Bug God scale to a stronger Garou. Suiryu likely scales to just regular Hero Hunter Garou.
 
Considering:
Despite this, he was still capable of keeping up relatively soundly with Genos and taking a brutal and relentless thrashing from Bang and Bomb simultaneously, two characters who are vastly superior to Genos, having destroyed Elder Centipede's exoskeleton while Genos could not even dent its shell. Garou also seems to imply that he could defeat Genos in peak condition, which makes sense as Genos and Tanktop Master were stated to be as powerful as each other, and peak Garou at the start of his hero hunt was capable of easily defeating Tanktop Master. This, along with what Tetsucabrah said with the scaling through Senior Centipede, should be enough to qualify for "At least Large Town level+", maybe a "possibly Small City level" for characters who scale to Garou.
 
Genos, on his own, is physically Low 7-B is he not? Garou said that his strength is on par with TTM
 
I don't really know tbh. The scaling chain seems to be somewhat confused. OP states that TTM shouldn't scale to Genos' Low 7-B feat but we decided to scale his physicals to his Low 7-B feat.
 
USklaverei said:
Murata also stated that "Genos can only damage Senior Centipede's armor using his [Spiral Incinerate] upgraded attacks", meaning that only post-Gouketsu (AKA post-superfight) Genos could affect Senior Centipede with his special attacks in his Low 7-B form. Senior Centipede should therefore be upgraded to "At least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B". Metal Bat's keys will stay the same. TTM's keys should also stay the same, as Genos did not use anything of the caliber of JDA against Garou and therefore Garou would not be comparing the Low 7-B feat to TTM.
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Hm. Fair I guess. But I think someone earlier said that Genos was holding back against Garou or something
 
Anyway, I think that just upgrading Senior Centipede's durability to High 7-C+ and the problem can probably be solved, as people suggested above.
High 7-C+ for Senior Centipede's durability because Murata stated that Senior Centipede can tank Spiral Incineration Cannon's attacks level. So with that, we have Metal Bat one-shots SC, and Garou scales to MB, etc..
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Genos, on his own, is physically Low 7-B is he not? Garou said that his strength is on par with TTM
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Garou did not see or feel anything from Genos that was Low 7-B. Looking back on that fight, Genos was going easy on Garou and reserving his strength. If Genos really wanted Garou dead, he would have spammed spiral incineration cannons at range and hit him with Jet Drive Arrow. But Genos obviously felt he could beat Garou without using his best moves and taking an energy intensive route. After all, Genos only saw Garou as a "common thug" at that point who was wasting the HA's time. So as far as Garou knew, Genos was giving his best and that was he was comparing TTM to.
 
Genos couldn’t use wide scale attacks because of the hostages in the area. I don’t think Genos was going easy, he just wasn’t going all out. He’s a cyborg so he doesn’t really need to “exert” himself when he fights, since y’know, no stamina.
 
Kin201 said:
Anyway, I think that just upgrading Senior Centipede's durability to High 7-C+ and the problem can probably be solved, as people suggested above.
High 7-C+ for Senior Centipede's durability because Murata stated that Senior Centipede can tank Spiral Incineration Cannon's attacks level. So with that, we have Metal Bat one-shots SC, and Garou scales to MB, etc..
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That's a fine way to do it.

Senior Centipede is by statement able to take these attacks and since Murata is giving us our only line here, that's what we will have to take. Senior Centipede is 681 kilotons, Pumped-Up Metal Bat can one-shot him, making him low 7-B by default. Only thing is, Pumped Up Metal Bat is far stronger than Garou and would have likely one-shot him if any of his strikes connected. Therefore... I think HH Garou should be: "High 7-C physically, higher with WSRSF", because he has to be blocking Low 7-B attacks here repeatedly, attacks that would knock him out or kill him without WSRSF.

So in other words, he would downscale from Metal Bat to around Senior Centipedes level. Royal Ripper would still be High 7-C I think, Bug God would remain as he is "at least High 7-C, likely higher" | "low 7-B". TTM in that case would also be "at least High 7-C" since Garou had to use WSRSF against him, but TTM a
 
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AtomicSekiro said:
Genos couldn’t use wide scale attacks because of the hostages in the area. I don’t think Genos was going easy, he just wasn’t going all out. He’s a cyborg so he doesn’t really need to “exert” himself when he fights, since y’know, no stamina.
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That's true, but the end point is that Garou was not comparing JDA and equivalent feats to TTM because he never saw them and had no way of knowing their existence and therefore could not compare them to TTM, so TTM cannot scale to them via Garou's statement
 
Some agree on scaling the Jet Drive Arrow to Genos' physicals, and if that's the case, Garou would scale as well, since Genos was out to kill in their fight.
However, upscaling Garou-level characters from the Spiral Incineration Cannon based on Senior Centipede and Metal Bat makes more sense, in my opinion.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Considering:
Despite this, he was still capable of keeping up relatively soundly with Genos and taking a brutal and relentless thrashing from Bang and Bomb simultaneously, two characters who are vastly superior to Genos, having destroyed Elder Centipede's exoskeleton while Genos could not even dent its shell. Garou also seems to imply that he could defeat Genos in peak condition, which makes sense as Genos and Tanktop Master were stated to be as powerful as each other, and peak Garou at the start of his hero hunt was capable of easily defeating Tanktop Master. This, along with what Tetsucabrah said with the scaling through Senior Centipede, should be enough to qualify for "At least Large Town level+", maybe a "possibly Small City level" for characters who scale to Garou.
Click to expand...
My goodness. Garou is another level. If I could endure all that, I'd probably do every sport imaginable.
 
Ourosboros said:
That's a fine way to do it.

Senior Centipede is by statement able to take these attacks and since Murata is giving us our only line here, that's what we will have to take. Senior Centipede is 681 kilotons, Pumped-Up Metal Bat can one-shot him, making him low 7-B by default. Only thing is, Pumped Up Metal Bat is far stronger than Garou and would have likely one-shot him if any of his strikes connected. Therefore... I think HH Garou should be: "High 7-C physically, higher with WSRSF", because he has to be blocking Low 7-B attacks here repeatedly, attacks that would knock him out or kill him without WSRSF.

So in other words, he would downscale from Metal Bat to around Senior Centipedes level. Royal Ripper would still be High 7-C I think, Bug God would remain as he is "at least High 7-C, likely higher" | "low 7-B". TTM in that case would also be "at least High 7-C" since Garou had to use WSRSF against him, but TTM a
Click to expand...
I think WSRSF is just a martial art style. It's not really increasing the user's AP when using it, so I don't think higher with WSRSF really works. WSRSF just allows the user to nullify and redirect attacks that are more powerful than the user's AP, it has a limit though.
Nullflowerblush said:
Some agree on scaling the Jet Drive Arrow to Genos' physicals, and if that's the case, Garou would scale as well, since Genos was out to kill in their fight.
However, upscaling Garou-level characters from the Spiral Incineration Cannon based on Senior Centipede and Metal Bat makes more sense, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Perhaps we should downgrade Genos' physicals to High 7-C+ and only Low 7-B with Jet Drive Arrow? If Murata says that Genos can only damage Senior Centipede with his Spiral Incineration's set attacks. Why would we scale his regular physicals to Jet Drive Arrow, an attack that is more powerful than Spiral Incineration Cannon? That is implied he can damage the centipede with a punch or a kick which isn't the case.
 
Why are we still taking stuff from murata tho, I thought we said we shouldn't do that unless ONE backs it up in some way. Like was that statement approved by ONE?
 
Murata's comment after the answer, "I haven't asked ONE about using Gouketsu's techniques yet..." seems to imply he's basing some of what he says off information that ONE tells him.
 
But is it the same case for senior centipede vs Genos? Also considering Genos seems to be able to tank his own attacks most of the time, the only exception to this is his Post-elder centipede form, where Dr Kuseno claims that this form very unbalance in offense and defense, meaning Genos is likely somewhat comparable to his strongest attacks in his past bodies.
 
Either all Murata statements should be allowed or all of them should not and be seen only as headcanon unless he says something like, “Oh, ONE told me Gouketsu is stronger than Rover”.

It’ll be impossible to tell credible statements from headcanon otherwise.
 
Kin201 said:
I think WSRSF is just a martial art style. It's not really increasing the user's AP when using it, so I don't think higher with WSRSF really works. WSRSF just allows the user to nullify and redirect attacks that are more powerful than the user's AP, it has a limit though.

Perhaps we should downgrade Genos' physicals to High 7-C+ and only Low 7-B with Jet Drive Arrow? If Murata says that Genos can only damage Senior Centipede with his Spiral Incineration's set attacks. Why would we scale his regular physicals to Jet Drive Arrow, an attack that is more powerful than Spiral Incineration Cannon? That is implied he can damage the centipede with a punch or a kick which isn't the case.
Click to expand...
I put the "higher with WSRSF" in there to resolve a possible circular scaling issue, because Hero Hunter Garou should technically be low 7-B according to his metal bat fight: Garou with WSRSF =~ pumped up Metal Bat << Senior Centipede 681 kilotons. The "High 7-C+" denotes that his physicals/non WSRSF AP are below his defensive/counteroffensive abilities with WSRSF, since Garou himself states that even one of Metal Bat's swings could have severely injured or incapacitated him. With WSRSF, Garou cannot not only deflect Metal Bat's "at least low 7-B" strikes, but redirect that energy back at Metal Bat, hitting Metal Bat with his own "at least low 7-B" AP- twofold times that if we believe TTM's statement. Even if we discard the Senior Centipede scaling, Metal Bat's attacks are still in that low dragon ballpark and Garou's limit with WSRSF therefore must be above wherever Metal Bat falls (I would guess about 5.1 megatons, 7.5X Senior's Centipede's dura).

I'm hesitant to make Garou just Low 7-B on this basis, because that upgrades numerous other characters based on what might be called a technicality. Plus, it's misleading because Garou doesn't always fight with WSRSF and his durability is far below its defensive/counteroffensive capabilities.

As for Genos, I think it's best just to have him at Low 7-B because his dura, JDA and Ultra Spiral Incineration Cannon are all low 7-B, and I see no reason why he could not use multiple attacks like JDA (obviously it would be very energy intensive and drain his stamina quickly, but it's an effort thing and not a capability thing imo). His durability scales to Jet Drive Arrow because his leg, after all, channeled all 1.2 megatons of energy into EC's tooth. Lastly, Ultra Spiral Incineration Cannon is also at least Low 7-B (should be much stronger than Spiral Incineration Cannon). Genos probably wasn't using low 7-B attacks in his fight against Garou, but in a vswikii battle where he needs his best effort to win, he would be low 7-B for all intents and purposes.
 
Do you think garou would get a possibly low 7-B, at best?

Also bomb being stronger than bang should be removed, and sweet mask's justification should be re-worked
 
The argument could be made, yes. To be clear, here's how I see it:

Garou's physical durability: High 7-C (mid-demon):
took damage from a TTM who wasn't going all out, took damage from post-superfight Genos's machine guns blows which should be individually weaker than Spiral Incineration Cannon (although it is a barrage attack which may somewhat compensate).

Garou's physical AP: High 7-C (mid-demon):
Felt he had to use WSRSF against TTM. Uses WSRSF after this point every time he is under serious pressure.

Garou's defensive ability with WSRSF: Low 7-B to an unknown extent (up to low dragon):
Repeatedly deflected pumped up Metal Bat's strikes, which are low 7-B. Deflected some of Genos's machine gun blows, wrecked TTM. Unable to block Watchdog man, but this seems to be more of a style and speed issue. Unproven against attacks like JDA.

Garou's AP with WSRSF: Varies (high-demon, possibly higher), at least as strong as whatever attack he is deflecting, likely twice as strong. Able to reflect pumped-up metal bat swings that must have been low 7-B. Unproven against attacks like JDA and energy attacks... Garou should be able to deflect these attacks from a purely AP perspective.

Make of that what you will, now that I look at it closer I think Genos may have been overwhelming Garou's WSRSF through superior speed and not AP. Garou could seemingly block Genos's individual machine gun blows without too much difficulty but he said "I can't block all this!" when Genos spammed this attack. Looking at Garou knowing what we know about JDA and Spiral Incineration Cannon, we get the immediate impression that Genos is superior because Genos plans to shoot Garou down with an attack that's half as strong as JDA or Ultra Spiral Incineration, but if we recognize that Garou's WSRSF is what makes him lethal (not his physical AP or durability), it's plausible that Garou could handle Genos's higher AP attacks even when machine gun/incinerate spam could outspeed his WSRSF.

Since that's a speculative disqualification of a demonstrated AP (blocked Metal Bat), I think HH Garou's WSRSF should be Low 7-B and that his rating should be "High 7-C, higher with WSRSF".
 
I pretty much agree with all of what you just said.

I agree with sweet mask getting downgraded to Low 7-B+
 
Would Sweet Mask even be low 7-B+ in the manga? All he did was low diff DO-S and get beat up by Fuhrer Ugly who was just messing with him.
 
Didn't he threatened to kill Genos when the 2 first met? He was implied to be stronger than Genos around the time so I guess he could be at least High 7-C. Tho at the very least, he should be much stronger than Iaian, not sure about fubuki.

Edit: Fuhrer ugly should Low 7-B+ by being superior to hundred eye octopus, sweet mask survived hits from him, and I doubt fuhrer was holding back. Would At most Low 7-B+ work?
 
ZoroNotZolo said:
What'd I miss?
Click to expand...
Not to much, we're going to change Garou's description to "High 7-C, higher with WSRSF", because WSRSF allows him to block Low 7-B damage and redirect it, allowing him to compete at a low 7-B level even though he could not physically block or damage those fighters (WSRSF is more about hitting people with their own force). Genos will stay as he is, since there's a little nuance to his Low 7-B rating and its not just JDA. Amai Mask will have to be downgraded when we do the webcomic changes, but that'll have to wait for the next CRT.

Should we change Garou to "High 7-C, higher with WSRSF"? Are there any objections or amendments?
 
Would Bang also be higher with WSRSF? He teached Garou WSRSF after all and shouldn't be worse than him at using it.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
Would Bang also be higher with WSRSF? He teached Garou WSRSF after all and shouldn't be worse than him at using it.
Click to expand...
Yes, he'd also be higher with Abandonment. The difference here is that Bang is baseline 7-B at the moment and he hasn't blocked any 7-A attacks or done anything 7-A in abandonment yet, so as far as we know, Bang's durability and AP with WSRSF are in the same vswiki tier. Garou's WSRSF is at least one tier above his physical stats and can make him competitive with low 7-B's who one-shot him without WSRSF, that's what I'm trying to denote with the "higher with WSRSF".

Although... maybe Bang will get an upgrade when we recalc Gouketsu, if EC scales to Gouketsu
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Didn't he threatened to kill Genos when the 2 first met? He was implied to be stronger than Genos around the time so I guess he could be at least High 7-C. Tho at the very least, he should be much stronger than Iaian, not sure about fubuki.
Click to expand...
His interaction with Genos was anime only iirc.
 
Speaking of Genos VS Garou, I remember seeing an animation by Dillon Goo which was a parody of that, but with Genos as a cat and Garou as a wolf or dog. One of the two.

That was mad hype, actually.
 
Metal Bat with only one or two rounds of fighting spirit could smash Elder Centipede's head into the ground.
Garou could deflect the hits of an even more pumped up Metal Bat.

Garou also admits if he took even a single hit from Metal Bat it would've been over. So yeah "higher with WSRSF" makes a lot of sense to me.
 
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