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Alien x vs Demigra

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Daddybrawl said:
Oh my lord did you read anything I said earlier

I was arguing that Servantis’ ‘Will wipe out everything’ statement was hyperbole. This is because it’s being taken literally, when it obviously shouldn’t. Not only is Servantis a lying, manipulative villain, but at that moment he was attempting to convince Kevin to join him by explaining his Motives. While I guess I’m fine with it being use as evidence for EE (although vague as crap), it’s clear that we can’t treat this as 100% Literal when he says ‘Everything’.

Alien X being stronger than Ectonurites doesn’t mean he can do what they do. For example, he‘s never shown Soul Destruction, or Intangibility. If we were to give him the abilities of everything he was considered superior to, we’d literally just link the Verse Page in his Powers section and say ‘he can do everything these guys can do’.
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Then do a CRT, this is not the place to discuss it.
 
Even if they are able to EE and shit, is there absolutely any feats or statements that suggest it is thought-based?
 
Do a CRT on the potency of his EE? He has EE, I’m not changing that. We were just discussing the potency of it, why would I make a CRT?

Gohanblanco217 said:
Alien x can affect non corporeal beings with his reality Warping (as shown with Contumelia being affected by the art style changing) and considering EE is a part of Celestialsapiens reality Warping then I'm pretty sure they have the ability to affect souls with EE
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Are Contumelia Souls? No? Then how’s affecting a Contumelia evidence for Soul Destruction?
 
Daddybrawl said:
Are Contumelia Souls? No? Then how’s affecting a Contumelia evidence for Soul Destruction?
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Affecting a non corporeal >>>>>>> affecting a soul
full
 
Souls are Non Corporeal as well. Affecting some random non-corporeal =/= Soul NPI. In fact, aren’t they intangible because they’re higher-dimensional or some crap? It’s not even the same Intangibility as Souls, that would be Spatial Intangibility vs Immaterial Intangibility.
 
Tiers have nothing to do with Hax man. Alien X’s EE feats are just so nonexistent you can’t factually prove they can erase a Soul. Mainly because they’ve literally never used EE in their entire showing on-screen.
 
Daddybrawl said:
Tiers have nothing to do with Hax man. Alien X’s EE feats are just so nonexistent you can’t factually prove they can erase a Soul. Mainly because they’ve literally never used EE in their entire showing on-screen.
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Just the lore behind AX proves it but aight...
 
Anodites are energy-beings as stated by Paradox. Since grandma Verdona is made from pure mana and totality of someone’s mana = soul as said by Charmcaster. Alien X erasing the multiverse (which is currently accepted) also includes grandma Verdona’s mana body aka her soul.

I’ll respond to the rest later.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
Even if they are able to EE and shit, is there absolutely any feats or statements that suggest it is thought-based?
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The other personalities being able to reality warp without Ben being transformed into Alien X and thus only having DNA but no body.
 
Just now I've found 2 statements about Alien x EE in a social media (it belongs to someone called Derrick or something so Idk if it should be enough )
 
Anyway here :

7723374-img_20201220_181120.jpg


And here's an other one :
7723375-img_20201220_181222.jpg

Those are supporting evidence for the EE I believe, I couldn't find anything better then those statements so yeah
 
Daddybrawl said:
What was his inspiration for studying his Villains again? Honestly I forget, wasn’t it because he was spying on Ben at all times or something? You’d think it’d be somewhat difficult to study events that happened in another dimension (ledger domain).

That... wasn’t the point. The point was the fact that ’Erase Everything from Existence’ is a blatant example of hyperbole, an exaggeration. Heck, Alien X was literally set up for execution and almost died, only living because he won a single Gladiatorial match and therefore wasn’t killed? It’s quite obvious that he doesn’t literally mean to erase EVERYTHING, especially since we have no proof he could erase EVERYTHING. We can’t assume.

Or it could be referencing the time Ben got killed by Vilgax, only to be resurrected as Diamondhead. Or the time Way Big got Thanos’d by Eon, only to reveal Ben was perfectly fine- that one was so convincing, Gwen shouted out in fear. Or it could be referencing the multiple times Ben was near death/dead only to be resurrected or healed by an outside force, such as the Omnitrix. Heck, the very example you’re referencing is saying Sub-Quantum level despite the Resurrection feat being of the Soul, are you telling me Ben’s body has to be ripped apart to shreds for the Soul to no longer exist? That’s strange.
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Yeah it's based on him spying on Ben indeed, spying on his villains' motives is a good way to predict what will happen to Ben to be able to strike at an opportune time. His base of operations is the Null Void, so he operates from another dimension anyways. It's also implied that he could sense the universe being recreated so whether it's via tech or abilities, he should still be able to witness events happening in a different dimension. There's also him not even having to spy on Charmcaster in Ledgerdomain itself, just her chatting with her uncle on earth could give away information like her wanting to resurrect her father. It would also be very weird for him to not realize that mana and souls are the same thing and to not include mana in his statement of being able to erase everything when Ben himself is literally 1/4th anodite and that's even without throwing Gwen into the equation. There's also Aggregor being a byproduct of Servantis' experiments most likely (cause you know Osmosians are a term Servantis invented) and even Aggregor found out about Ledgerdomain and the Map of Infinity.

First off, hyperbole for a Celestialsapiens' abilities? For reals? I can get you being against him being literally omnipotent but how many times does a supergenius need to state that he's the strongest power in the universe (which Kukui takes as best hax in the universe, thus scaling him above the time bomb and the Annihilaargh) and can do everything before people realize that Ben 10 characters are literal when they describe a Celestialsapiens' powers and that it's usually gonna be an understatement rather than a hyperbole. Secondly, I am aware of the notorious example of Buu stating that he himself is omnipotent and that that is a blatant hyperbole. But when a supergenius who deals with the biggest of threats possible states that something is a threat to all of existence then you better take him damn seriously, or else he wouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.

You seemed to have completely missed the point of the Celestialsapien trial. GG wasn't gonna kill him and all Ben would have had to do is pay a fine, which now Bellicus and Serena had to pay. I also don't see how this relates to my point at all.

Maybe; No because he didn't die there; Maybe but time travel would still screw Servantis over so probably not (unless his machine erases him from space-time as a whole). Fair on it only being sub-quantum destruction (Manny does say that it would delete Ben, but then again Manny ain't the sharpest tool in the shed), this could mean that Servantis is unaware of Charmcaster's method of resurrecting souls or that he has access to info that we don't. Regardless I brought up something else as proof a few posts above this one.
 
Greenshifter said:
First off, hyperbole for a Celestialsapiens' abilities? For reals? I can get you being against him being literally omnipotent but how many times does a supergenius need to state that he's the strongest power in the universe (which Kukui takes as best hax in the universe, thus scaling him above the time bomb and the Annihilaargh) and can do everything before people realize that Ben 10 characters are literal when they describe a Celestialsapiens' powers and that it's usually gonna be an understatement rather than a hyperbole. Secondly, I am aware of the notorious example of Buu stating that he himself is omnipotent and that that is a blatant hyperbole. But when a supergenius who deals with the biggest of threats possible states that something is a threat to all of existence then you better take him damn seriously, or else he wouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.

You seemed to have completely missed the point of the Celestialsapien trial. GG wasn't gonna kill him and all Ben would have had to do is pay a fine, which now Bellicus and Serena had to pay. I also don't see how this relates to my point at all.

Maybe; No because he didn't die there; Maybe but time travel would still screw Servantis over so probably not (unless his machine erases him from space-time as a whole). Fair on it only being sub-quantum destruction (Manny does say that it would delete Ben, but then again Manny ain't the sharpest tool in the shed), this could mean that Servantis is unaware of Charmcaster's method of resurrecting souls or that he has access to info that we don't. Regardless I brought up something else as proof a few posts above this one.
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Yes. You know why it’s hyperbole? Because there’s a difference between stating something is a threat to all of Existence, and something will erase everything from existence. A Threat to all of Existence is just saying it threatens a bunch of stuff, that’s not something you can use for anything and doesn’t amount to squat. Saying he Erases everything in existence is hyperbole. Mainly because he certainly cannot know of everything in existence, even if he has studied a bunch of crap From spying on Ben. The Man’s referred to as Omnipotent 3 times in the series- we don’t take Omnipotent statements. While I’m aware this statement does sum up how powerful Alien X is treated, we can’t take it as factual ‘He can do X’ because Servantis literally cannot know of everything that exists in a supposedly infinite universe, so he has to be exaggerating, aka hyperbole.

Oh... hm. Looking back, that does seem to be it. I completely dropped the ball on that one I guess. Nice catch.
 
For the record, I am only a bit iffy on Alien X having EE, but it being thought-based is a big no-no for me, as there are barely any feats or statements to support it being Thought based.

Do we really have no feats of him showcasing his EE or something? Just statements?
 
Then I am Voting Demigra if Alien X didnt show any EE feats
(if U assume Alien X can do Soul EE, then I dont See why U cant assume Demigra has Mid Godly res. since they cant sense his soul even in Afterlife)
 
LightReinh12345 said:
Then I am Voting Demigra if Alien X didnt show any EE feats
(if U assume Alien X can do Soul EE, then I dont See why U cant assume Demigra has Mid Godly res. since they cant sense his soul even in Afterlife)
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My dude, did you even read the thread or not?
 
StrymULTRA said:
In the thread it was agreed that Demigra's regen = Low Godly and that AX can erase souls due to scaling lol
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Scaling doesnt make U to erase souls
Ap has nothing to do with this
Many people disagrees with this idea AS U can See the debate is still ongoing so its not selected
 
Daddybrawl said:
Servantis literally cannot know of everything that exists in a supposedly infinite universe, so he has to be exaggerating, aka hyperbole.
Click to expand...
But we do know about how much that he does know and that’s the size of the multiverse for reasons I already brought up in the upgrade thread and the way mana and souls work for spying on Ben and Gwen and knowing about Ledgerdomain. That’s all he really needs for AX’s EE to be useful here.
 
Oh, I’d just like to point out that (regardless of the whole Alien X EE debate) Demigra’s mindhax might not (immediately) work on AX. Reason being that rather than Demigra being able to affect an avatar of something (such as Darkrai putting Palkia to sleep, which was argued to also work on AX), he instead affects the multiverse inside someone. But since AX’s pocket dimension is merely connected to his body rather than being physically inside, Demigra would need to ki sense to locate the personalities and then mindhax them, if he even thinks about doing that and realizes who is controlling AX in the first place. So AX should win the quickdraw and just EE Demigra, conditional on the EE working on souls.
 
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