MHA AP and Durability Upgrades

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Yeah, but at this point, it would just make more sense to put this in a CRT for everyone to see. And I guess Bakugo would experience some of the recoils of his explosions.

I mean you can make a new CRT if you want it I see no reason since the topic is a stat upgrade.

I know he does but my question is if all the force of the explosion is experienced by his body.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Deku surviving the recoil of the explosion does not mean he can downscale from it. When you fire a gun, do you withstand the force behind the bullet being launched? Recoil doesn't equal strength/durability, with small exceptions being made. Even if we ignore what I'm saying, Bakugo is capable of firing off his gauntlets with nothing happening to his arm, while Deku's arm is dislocated. This basically translates to Bakugo's durability being so far above Base Deku's that it's basically incomparable.

I disagree with Bakugo's explosions ignoring durability. If that would be the case, Deku would not have been launched back by the force of his explosions in some of the panels. They still pack force and have a TNT value, but they also can negate durability. (slightly) If his explosions were mainly durability negation through heat, then there would be no TNT value or AP from them at all.

Have you ever considered why Bakugo's explosions hurt characters even when they're so small? It's not like the heat aspect of them disappears when the AP is really minuscule, not even close.

Ignoring all of this, Deku's Base still ain't High 8-C. Bakugo was trying to prolong his match against Deku to crush him at his strongest. Even All Might noticed this. This is basically concrete evidence that Bakugo's holding back, by a lot. He at one point states this, "I'll mess you up just enough to not be disqualified!!" Once again, supporting my point.

So Deku, who was completely not prepared for the recoil of the gauntlet nor even knew it existed, get’s his arm dislocated, compared to Bakugo, who knows his own recoil and gauntlet strength, not having his arm dislocated. Sounds like it’s different circumstances that can be explained and doesn’t disprove base Deku downscaling.

Oh? So now we’re saying that being able to push someone is grounds for saying your AP is comparable to their durability? So we’re scaling Base Deku to 5% for head butting Todoroki right? Than Bakugo’s small explosions are all High 8-C for being able to push back 5 and 8% Deku right? So we’re back to my original proposition right? You’re not just going to cherry pick moments of Bakugo pushing people back with small explosions so you can push a downgrade agenda right?

If you disagree with Bakugo’s heat negating durability, than we have an issue here with him harming characters with higher scaling than 9-A with small explosions. I don’t care for why he’s hurting them, I just want to know what we all collectively agree on so we can scale people correctly or not.

Option 1) If it’s heat, than everyone potentially has higher scaling than we’re giving them, which we would be giving them for no reason at all other than 9-A calcs that mean nothing if he negates durability.

Option 2) We say he harms them with the force, which would make even his small explosions high 8-c and everyone scales anyway.

Option 3) all his explosions vary, and Deku is actually wall level in base, meaning Ochako would one shot him, his statement of 5% being a small increase is false and he somehow gained over a thousand times more durability over a couple months to the point he can consistently take attacks that hurt Bakugo from both All Might and Nine.

Essentially, I believe the 9-A calcs gotta go. They’re the issue here, since they put characters at 100x weaker than others, and no one even fully scales to them if we don’t take all his explosions to be equal due to inverse square law. That is not consistent at all with how the series goes from beginning to end. Having a bunch of near wall level characters in the same league as a bunch of building level ones, then those wall level characters jumping to building level cause “training” while the building level ones stay the exact same is ridiculous, just downscale the wall level ones.

I guess Aoyama, Mina and Tokoyami trained so much harder than Bakugo they out scaled him? Eclipsed all his training across his life in a few months at school despite nothing pointing towards them doing more training than he did, and the story in fact framing it as he trains harder than anyone? 9-A characters are just built different I guess.

This CRT can actually serve for base Deku’s rating as I brought it up in the OP and that still constitutes a multiplier.

I’d like to ask, did we ever get a blatant statement that Bakugou experiences ALL the force his explosions give out?

movie feat has him literally detonate an explosion from his gauntlet on his body that destroys the gauntlet. He scales physically to them quite blatantly.

 

[Earthyboy]

Essentially, I believe the 9-A calcs gotta go. They’re the issue here, since they put characters at 100x weaker than others, and no one even fully scales to them if we don’t take all his explosions to be equal due to inverse square law. That is not consistent at all with how the series goes from beginning to end. Having a bunch of near wall level characters in the same league as a bunch of building level ones, then those wall level characters jumping to building level cause “training” while the building level ones stay the exact same is ridiculous, just downscale the wall level ones.

Honestly? All of the 9-A calculations have issues with either PSI or inverse square law, so they have to go. I never really agreed with it to begin with and was even planning to revision it at some point.

 

[Earthyboy]

At this point, we need a CRT anyways.

 

[Earthyboy]

So Deku, who was completely not prepared for the recoil of the gauntlet nor even knew it existed, get’s his arm dislocated, compared to Bakugo, who knows his own recoil and gauntlet strength, not having his arm dislocated. Sounds like it’s different circumstances that can be explained and doesn’t disprove base Deku downscaling

Oh? So now we’re saying that being able to push someone is grounds for saying your AP is comparable to their durability? So we’re scaling Base Deku to 5% for head butting Todoroki right? Than Bakugo’s small explosions are all High 8-C for being able to push back 5 and 8% Deku right? So we’re back to my original proposition right? You’re not just going to cherry pick moments of Bakugo pushing people back with small explosions so you can push a downgrade agenda right?

I'm not saying that the force behind his explosions is grounds for saying your AP is comparable to their durability, I'm just saying the explosions still have force behind them.

Funny, it's actually stated that Bakugo's smaller explosions are "half-assed" compared to his larger ones, so either way, there's evidence proving that his smaller explosions are weaker.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

movie feat has him literally detonate an explosion from his gauntlet on his body that destroys the gauntlet. He scales physically to them quite blatantly.

Right then. It’s just kind of weird to me that 5% Deku (and soon to be pretty much all of Class 1A) scales to (or down scales a bit) Bakugou’s full power self damaging blasts.

At very best you could argue the kick back is less than the actual blast itself since he suffered notably more damage detonating it on himself than a full power shot but whatever difference is there isn’t anything to big.

 

[Earthyboy]

Right then. It’s just kind of weird to me that 5% Deku (and soon to be pretty much all of Class 1A) scales to (or down scales a bit) Bakugou’s full power self damaging blasts.

At very best you could argue the kick back is less than the actual blast itself since he suffered notably more damage detonating it on himself than a full power shot but whatever difference is there isn’t anything to big.

It'd be an extreme sketch to downscale the whole class to his gauntlets when All Might himself admitted that Deku would be killed if he got hit head-on by them. And this is from a farther distance from where the explosion would be considerably weaker supposedly. (Thanks to inverse square law.) I definitely wouldn't be one to support it.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It'd be an extreme sketch to downscale the whole class to his gauntlets when All Might himself admitted that Deku would be killed if he got hit head-on by them. And this is from a farther distance from where the explosion would be considerably weaker supposedly. (Thanks to inverse square law.) I definitely wouldn't be one to support it.

Bakugo’s gauntlets hurting him more if not funneled through the gauntlet means the downscale isn’t far fetched at all.

All Might made that statement before even seeing the effect of his gauntlets. Why do we even take his and Bakugo’s statements at face value that Deku would definitely die from it? All Might’s could be from worry due to knowing how the gauntlets work and Bakugo’s could just be him boasting.

Feats point to the gauntlets not being capable of outright killing people.

 

[Earthyboy]

Bakugo’s gauntlets hurting him more if not funneled through the gauntlet means the downscale isn’t far fetched at all.

All Might made that statement before even seeing the effect of his gauntlets. Why do we even take his and Bakugo’s statements at face value that Deku would definitely die from it? All Might’s could be from worry due to knowing how the gauntlets work and Bakugo’s could just be him boasting.

Feats point to the gauntlets not being capable of outright killing people.

It's not like All Might is dumb. It'd be logical to assume he knows how durable his successor is thanks to training him for ten months straight. He quite literally explained how his gauntlets worked, into All Might's mic, that they store a crap ton of nitroglycerin sweat. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize how lethal that would be.

Just look at the context here, even Bakugo considered just for a moment it could've killed Deku if it hit head-on. And what is the boasting about? Deku's ability to at least avoid some of the explosion? His aim? If it's the latter, it basically proves he knew how lethal his weapon would be to Deku if it hit head-on. Regardless, he knows his own strength and quirk and it'd irrational to assume he was bluffing here.

 

[Earthyboy]

There's also another statement of Bakugo implying that he holds back on his power. So really, Deku shouldn't be High 8-C in his Base.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Hey you guys wanna know something funny

Monoma can injure Bakugo with his own quirk.

Isn't that interesting. He's not using a big blast either. I sure do wonder how Bakugo's quirk could hurt him if its only the heat and small explosions create wall level force.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

We gonna downscale Bakugo to wall level too now or what

 

[Earthyboy]

Hey you guys wanna know something funny

Monoma can injure Bakugo with his own quirk.

Isn't that interesting. He's not using a big blast either. I sure do wonder how Bakugo's quirk could hurt him if its only the heat and small explosions create wall level force.

Even if you're a 9-B character you'd be able to harm a High 8-C, but not by much. People are still able to hurt Bruce Lee despite just being average, but they can't do any notable damage. Bakugo can be applied to this rule because he's pretty much unphased from the force of the attack, with only the burn marks doing anything. (And just to clarify, his explosions are capable of doing heat damage. It's not like that's nonexistent. Like, it's an explosion...)

Even then? It's still stated/implied that he holds back when using his smaller explosions, so really Deku's base still isn't High 8-C.

 

[Therefir]

He got blow back a by a small explosion and his cheek is injured, Wall level Bakugo confirmed guys.

This reminds me that there are other feats in this arc like the students surviving Kaminari's Indiscriminate Shock, with his electricity being able to hurt Shishikura, who survived a double attack from Bakugo and Kirishima.

 

[Therefir]

Even if you're a 9-B character you'd be able to harm a High 8-C.

What

 

[Earthyboy]

He got blow back a by a small explosion and his cheek is injured, Wall level Bakugo confirmed guys.

This reminds me that there are other feats in this arc like the students surviving Kaminari's Indiscriminate Shock, which his electricity being able to hurt Shishikura, who survived a double attack from Bakugo and Kirishima.

He's mostly injured thanks to the heat of the explosion. He's very much unphased by the attack otherwise.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Even if you're a 9-B character you'd be able to harm a High 8-C, but not by much. People are still able to hurt Bruce Lee despite just being average, but they can't do any notable damage. Bakugo can be applied to this rule because he's pretty much unphased from the force of the attack, with only the burn marks doing anything. (And just to clarify, his explosions are capable of doing heat damage. It's not like that's nonexistent. Like, it's an explosion...)

Even then? It's still stated/implied that he holds back when using his smaller explosions, so really Deku's base still isn't High 8-C.

Excuse me? No, you would not be able to harm a High 8-C. Bruce lee is not High 8-C, so that example is absolutely worthless. The difference between the highest possible 9-B and the lowest possible High 8-c is 400 times.

You are not injuring someone in the slightest if they are 400 times stronger than you.

He is not unphased by that attack, he is clearly injured and is forced backwards from it, his face snapping to the side like he just got punched. "only the burn marks doing anything?" No, the force hurt him, thats why his head snapped. And he can tank his own heat damage, he's trained to do it.

That statement implies a limit to his power that he doesn't go over, not that he holds back. If by "Holding back" you mean he doesn't use explosions so big they injure his arms all the time, then yes, he is holding back, but that doesn't affect my argument. My argument is that he doesn't need those level of explosions to be high 8-c.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Withstanding an attack doesn't mean it didn't hurt you. You seem to not get that.

You can hurt or be hurt by something that doesn't one shot or make someone bleed or nearly kill them, and scale to it.

 

[Earthyboy]

Excuse me? No, you would not be able to harm a High 8-C. Bruce lee is not High 8-C, so that example is absolutely worthless. The difference between the highest possible 9-B and the lowest possible High 8-c is 400 times.

You are not injuring someone in the slightest if they are 400 times stronger than you.

He is not unphased by that attack, he is clearly injured and is forced backwards from it, his face snapping to the side like he just got punched. "only the burn marks doing anything?" No, the force hurt him, thats why his head snapped. And he can tank his own heat damage, he's trained to do it.

That statement implies a limit to his power that he doesn't go over, not that he holds back. If by "Holding back" you mean he doesn't use explosions so big they injure his arms all the time, then yes, he is holding back, but that doesn't affect my argument. My argument is that he doesn't need those level of explosions to be high 8-c.

The point about Bruce Lee isn't that he's a High 8-C, the point is that you can damage someone leagues above you, although it wouldn't be by much.

His head being forced back is literally him being caught off guard. You made the same exact example with Deku's shoulder suffering from the recoil of Bakugo's gauntlets. So your own logic disproves itself. Neither was expecting a sneak attack so of course they'd be forced back. What I'm saying here is, forcing someone back, with way superior durability, even so slightly can be done if they're caught off guard.

"You are not injuring someone in the slightest if they are 400 times stronger than you." Really? Punching an object with Large Building level durability with Wall level strength will eventually take it down. A 9-B could damage a High 8-C, but it'd be very minuscule.

 

[LordTracer]

A 9-B could damage a High 8-C, but it'd be very minuscule.

No, they literally can’t lmao, it is a 400x difference.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm staying out of this but a 9-B cannot hurt a High 8-C, the strongest 9-B+ (0.004 Tons), is over 400 times weaker than baseline High 8-C.

On this entire wiki, it's accepted that a 7.5x difference is enough to one shot and tank a standard attack, no hax or blades. A 9-B can destroy a building due to surface area and by attack it's support beams. Which makes the building collapse under it's own weight. You can't do that for a person.

A 9-B punch can never hurt a High 8-C, sorry but that's how this works in the wiki or in real life.

 

[Earthyboy]

I'm staying out of this but a 9-B cannot hurt a High 8-C, the strongest 9-B+ (0.004 Tons), is over 400 times weaker than baseline High 8-C.

On this entire wiki, it's accepted that a 7.5x difference is enough to one shot and tank a standard attack, no hax or blades. A 9-B can destroy a building due to surface area and by attack it's support beams. Which makes the building collapse under it's own weight. You can't do that for a person.

A 9-B punch can never hurt a High 8-C, sorry but that's how this works in the wiki or in real life.

Even ignoring this, Bakugo's smaller explosions can hurt All Might, despite All Might being suppressed, and Bakugo stating those explosions were him holding back. It's obvious that the heat from his explosions can still damage someone.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I didn't say anything about that, don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not involved in whatever is going on here.

 

[Earthyboy]

I didn't say anything about that, don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not involved in whatever is going on here.

I'm fine with that.

 

[Therefir]

Bakugo is resistant to the heat of his own attacks.

His head was snapped back by the force of that small explosion, no amount of off-guard would be able to justify a 9-B explosion doing that to a High 8-C character, it would be like a mosquito moving a person's head by crashing into them.

And Bakugo was in the middle of a competition so even that is questionable.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The point about Bruce Lee isn't that he's a High 8-C, the point is that you can damage someone leagues above you, although it wouldn't be by much.

His head being forced back is literally him being caught off guard. You made the same exact example with Deku's shoulder suffering from the recoil of Bakugo's gauntlets. So your own logic disproves itself. Neither was expecting a sneak attack so of course they'd be forced back. What I'm saying here is, forcing someone back, with way superior durability, even so slightly can be done if they're caught off guard.

"You are not injuring someone in the slightest if they are 400 times stronger than you." Really? Punching an object with Large Building level durability with Wall level strength will eventually take it down. A 9-B could damage a High 8-C, but it'd be very minuscule.

Bruce Lee isn't so much higher than me that I can't hurt him though. Where do you scale bruce lee to where he can? He's 9-C at best. So your argument is incorrect. Bruce Lee is a human being and any human being can harm him. Higher skill means nothing to his actual stats.

Off guard when he's in the middle of a competition and was moving forward to hit Monoma? Unlikely. And no amount of off guard will let a 9-B survive an attack from or do damage to a High 8-C.

Except he didn't do that to Bakugo. He hit him once and snapped his face to the side and hurt him. A 9-B would literally die from exhaustion before a High 8-C would.

 

[Earthyboy]

Bakugo is resistant to the heat of his own attacks.

His head was snapped back by the force of that small explosion, no amount of off-guard would be able to justify a 9-B explosion doing that to a High 8-C character.

And Bakugo was in the middle of a competition so even that is questionable.

There's nothing that states he's resistant.

Bakugo was literally caught off guard. A 9-B character can push a High 8-C character off a cliff if the High 8-C character isn't retaliating. Like I could literally push Bruce Lee back if he doesn't do anything to resist, it's not like he's too heavy. Bakugo was caught off guard. Literally, he did not expect to be caught off guard. Show me where he expected Monoma to blast him with his quirk. Hell, he didn't even know Monoma could copy quirks.

 

[Earthyboy]

Off guard when he's in the middle of a competition and was moving forward to hit Monoma? Unlikely. And no amount of off guard will let a 9-B survive an attack from or do damage to a High 8-C.

Except he didn't do that to Bakugo. He hit him once and snapped his face to the side and hurt him. A 9-B would literally die from exhaustion before a High 8-C would.

He literally did not even expect him to use an explosion on him. He really was caught off guard.

 

[Therefir]

Bakugo was literally charging headfirst at Monoma because he had previously taunted him.

This is reaching Olympic levels of mental and headcanons that I didn't even think were possible.

 

[Earthyboy]

Bakugo was literally charging against Monoma because he previously taunted him.

This is reaching Olimpic-levels of mental gimnastics and head-canons I didn't thought it would be possible.

Did he expect to get hit by an explosion from Monoma? No. If someone you were fist-fighting suddenly started using more power in his punches, you'd be caught off guard by the increase in strength. Literally, it doesn't matter if he was focused on him, he didn't expect to be hit with an explosion.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

He didn't know he was going to use his power until he used it. So he had nothing to be surprised about when it happened. He was on guard the whole time. Being shocked doesn't make you suddenly 400 times weaker.

So now we're saying that pushing someone back doesn't scale you above them in AP? You're contradicting yourself now.

I disagree with Bakugo's explosions ignoring durability. If that would be the case, Deku would not have been launched back by the force of his explosions in some of the panels. They still pack force and have a TNT value, but they also can negate durability. (slightly) If his explosions were mainly durability negation through heat, then there would be no TNT value or AP from them at all.

You say here that Deku wouldn't have been launched back if Bakugo's explosions only ignored dura, and the force behind them must be comparable. What makes this situation any different? Do you now agree his explosions only mainly negate durability?

 

[Therefir]

If you are charging at a person with the intention of hurting them you can surely expect a counter attack of any kind, I doubt Bakugo is so stupid he wasn't expecting Monoma or his classmates to use their Quirks against him.

And it doesn't matter anyway, he was blow back by a Wall level explosion that shouldn't have even graze him according to you, getting caught off-guard or not.

 

[Therefir]

I disagree with Bakugo's explosions ignoring durability. If that would be the case, Deku would not have been launched back by the force of his explosions in some of the panels. They still pack force and have a TNT value, but they also can negate durability. (slightly) If his explosions were mainly durability negation through heat, then there would be no TNT value or AP from them at all.

I like how you now agree with Bakugo's explosions ignoring durability now that it suits you.

 

[Earthyboy]

I'll respond to everything tomorrow, I need to sleep.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

The point about Bruce Lee isn't that he's a High 8-C, the point is that you can damage someone leagues above you, although it wouldn't be by much.

His head being forced back is literally him being caught off guard. You made the same exact example with Deku's shoulder suffering from the recoil of Bakugo's gauntlets. So your own logic disproves itself. Neither was expecting a sneak attack so of course they'd be forced back. What I'm saying here is, forcing someone back, with way superior durability, even so slightly can be done if they're caught off guard.

"You are not injuring someone in the slightest if they are 400 times stronger than you." Really? Punching an object with Large Building level durability with Wall level strength will eventually take it down. A 9-B could damage a High 8-C, but it'd be very minuscule.

That’s like trying to shoot a tank one million times with a Handgun, you won’t get anywhere doing that because you can’t Chip to that absurd of a degree.

 

[Therefir]

By the way, if anyone is interested, I calculated the explosion that injured and snapped Bakugo's head backwards at 0.0000114 tons, making it half a million times weaker than his durability.

 

[KingTempest]

Goddamn

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

By the way, if anyone is interested, I calculated the explosion that injured and snapped Bakugo's head backwards at 0.0000114 tons, making it half a million times weaker than his durability.

Is that even wall level?

 

[Therefir]

47697 joules, barely at the beginning of Wall level.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I honestly don't know what more I can provide at this point to give my argument substance.

My stance is that Bakugo's explosions are consistent in their damage regardless of size outside of his clearly stronger gauntlet and self-damaging explosions, which have now been calced at large building+ and noted to be higher than his normal ones.

I have provided instances of him harming characters with high 8-c scaling or statements, i have provided scans of his own quirk in smaller sizes harming him, i have provided reasoning on why it would be logically consistent and not disrupt scaling due to the removal of calcs that are going to be obselete either way.

We either say he negs dura via heat and give a lot of people heat resistance (which would contradict in verse narrative and feats) or just downscale them to baseline high 8-c (which is opposed by LITERALLY two calcs, both of which come from Jiro).