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MHA AP and Durability Upgrades

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Anyone remember when Bakugo could hurt Kurogiri, who is Oboro Shirakumo with a Nomu body, who scales to Aizawa who even back then was 8-C? Or are we saying Shirakumo and young Aizawa are wall level too.
 
OH, and Aizawa can fight Knuckleduster. Street level knuckleduster? Street level young Rappa, Miruko and Hood? Is everyone in vigilantes street level now?
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Anyone remember when Bakugo could hurt Kurogiri, who is Oboro Shirakumo with a Nomu body, who scales to Aizawa who even back then was 8-C? Or are we saying Shirakumo and young Aizawa are wall level too.
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I guess it might actually be best Bakugo gets changed back, these Dura negging Wall level blasts are just too inconsistent for the verse and nerfs then far far lower than their direct feats have them.
There still needs to be a consensus tho I think how we scale characters to Bakugo’s strongest blasts should change though
 
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Kingofwolves999 said:
I honestly don't know what more I can provide at this point to give my argument substance.

My stance is that Bakugo's explosions are consistent in their damage regardless of size outside of his clearly stronger gauntlet and self-damaging explosions, which have now been calced at large building+ and noted to be higher than his normal ones.

I have provided instances of him harming characters with high 8-c scaling or statements, i have provided scans of his own quirk in smaller sizes harming him, i have provided reasoning on why it would be logically consistent and not disrupt scaling due to the removal of calcs that are going to be obselete either way.

We either say he negs dura via heat and give a lot of people heat resistance (which would contradict in verse narrative and feats) or just downscale them to baseline high 8-c (which is opposed by LITERALLY two calcs, both of which come from Jiro).
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We literally will be scaling his smaller explosions to his most powerful ones due to his durability which would make no sense whatsoever as his full power is treated as far more powerful than his normal blasts.

A single scan of Bakugou being harmed by a blast that tiny can literally be considered an outlier as nothing like that ever happens in the series again and is contradicted by Bakugou taking heavier blows later or following this logic does Batman scale to Spectre for hurting him that one time?


Even if the calcs are obsolete to other characters they still exist for Bakugou. Why are we taking such a disingenuous stance as to only consider what fits for your idea of Bakugou? We calc his large explosions to get him big AP values then end up scaling everyone to his strongest moves which scare most students who go up against them (like Uraraka or Deku) and Kirishima only considers taking such big moves with Unbreakable. At the same time any smaller values which are consistent with what he attacks most people with get completely ignored just because you don’t like them.

I’ve given several scans and instances of him harming people he genuinely shouldn’t with temperature alone such as Deku, Bondo etc

Why do the characters need heat resistance? Rusty himself had been arguing the explosions wouldn’t last long enough to burn people but they clearly can and an argument could be made that they only last long enough to give the burns we see in canon. We also know Bakugou can control the heat of his blasts based on his various uses. In the first chapter he only gives off enough heat to slightly burn Deku’s clothes but in subsequent chapters can burn clothes black and give people first degree burns with his blasts that last for less than a second.
 
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Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
A single scan of Bakugou being harmed by a blast that tiny can literally be considered an outlier as nothing like that ever happens in the series or following this logic does Batman scale to Spectre for hurting him that one time?
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Okay, the Batman example isn’t a good analogy because Spectre states in the literal next page that he let it happen just to make Batman feel better.

That needs to stop being used as an example of outliers, because it’s not even a feat in the first place.
 
After taking some time to examine Bakugo's explosions, here's what I found:

So basically, Bakugo's smaller explosions are capable of hurting All Might slightly. I guess that means we have Building level All Might then. Another thing I find interesting is that his explosions are capable of leaving scuff marks on people who he's not even capable of harming. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't All Might completely destroying both 5% Deku and Bakugo in their fight, even while suppressed? Deku even though it was stupid to face All Might at that moment. There's no way either of them should be capable of doing physical damage to him, even if he's holding back. It's not like he has a reason to lower his durability against him or his OFA percentage to their respective levels, it would defeat the purpose of the test.

He wasn't even capable of harming Kirishima and yet his explosions leave scuff marks on him. This makes it pretty obvious that even if his explosions aren't capable of doing physical damage, they're still capable of leaving scuff marks on people or negating their durability with heat, which explains why Bakugo had scuff marks on his cheeks thanks to Monoma. Even Deku had scuff marks from an explosion he mostly dodged. Not only that but he was burned from the heat it produced. This is basically proof that his explosions are capable of getting through people's durability through heat and leaving scuff marks, making it seem like the blast actually damaged them through force.

This doesn't mean that Deku or anyone wouldn't scale to the explosion's force/AP though. His explosions still pack the force necessary to fight his opponents when they're powerful enough. It's even stated in his costume explanation that he has shock nullifiers to nullify the force from some of his attacks, proving once again characters still can scale to them. It's just that most of the time his smaller explosions lack enough force to do physical damage, so it's mostly the heat doing the damage.
 
Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
Why do the characters need heat resistance? Rusty himself had been arguing the explosions wouldn’t last long enough to burn people but they clearly can and an argument could be made that they only last long enough to give the burns we see in canon. We also know Bakugou can control the heat of his blasts based on his various uses. In the first chapter he only gives off enough heat to slightly burn Deku’s clothes but in subsequent chapters can burn clothes black and give people first degree burns with his blasts that last for less than a second.
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There's way too many examples in canon for anyone to rule out the possibility of his explosions burning people. So I agree with this. He can control the heat of his explosions and how strong they are.
 
Earthyboy said:
After taking some time to examine Bakugo's explosions, here's what I found:

So basically, Bakugo's smaller explosions are capable of hurting All Might slightly. I guess that means we have Building level All Might then. Another thing I find interesting is that his explosions are capable of leaving scuff marks on people who he's not even capable of harming. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't All Might completely destroying both 5% Deku and Bakugo in their fight, even while suppressed? Deku even though it was stupid to face All Might at that moment. There's no way either of them should be capable of doing physical damage to him, even if he's holding back. It's not like he has a reason to lower his durability against him or his OFA percentage to their respective levels, it would defeat the purpose of the test.

He wasn't even capable of harming Kirishima and yet his explosions leave scuff marks on him. This makes it pretty obvious that even if his explosions aren't capable of doing physical damage, they're still capable of leaving scuff marks on people or negating their durability with heat, which explains why Bakugo had scuff marks on his cheeks thanks to Monoma. Even Deku had scuff marks from an explosion he mostly dodged. Not only that but he was burned from the heat it produced. This is basically proof that his explosions are capable of getting through people's durability through heat and leaving scuff marks, making it seem like the blast actually damaged them through force.

This doesn't mean that Deku or anyone wouldn't scale to the explosion's force/AP though. His explosions still pack the force necessary to fight his opponents when they're powerful enough. It's even stated in his costume explanation that he has shock nullifiers to nullify the force from some of his attacks, proving once again characters still can scale to them. It's just that most of the time his smaller explosions lack enough force to do physical damage, so it's mostly the heat doing the damage.
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Scale everyone that doesn't scale to Bakugo then. If this is your stance, explain where we are scaling literally every other character that you aren't accounting for.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Scale everyone that doesn't scale to Bakugo then. If this is your stance, explain where we are scaling literally every other character that you aren't accounting for.
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Scaling their durability would be easy since they can withstand hits from his smaller explosions, but their AP is likely a different story. Although, you could probably assume they'd be 9-C or 9-B.
 
Earthyboy said:
Scaling their durability would be easy since they can withstand hits from his smaller explosions, but their AP is likely a different story. Although, you could probably assume they'd be 9-C or 9-B.
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Except why would we assume they are hurt by the force if he hurts everyone else with heat. Why are we saying some characters are hurt only by heat but others are hurt by force.
 
What is the cut off point you want where Bakugo can only deal damage via the heat of his explosions, except against a few people who take the damage of his force because you say they do
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
What is the cut off point you want where Bakugo can only deal damage via the heat of his explosions, except against a few people who take the damage of his force because you say they do
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I never argued that. The people who are affected by the heat of his explosions still can withstand the force from it because the explosion isn't all that powerful. The force doesn't just go away, it's just that most of the time the smaller explosions can't harm people due to how weak the explosion is.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
That's because he was pushing her around on concrete with explosions, which we're saying doesn't imply the force hurt you. Otherwise 5 and 8% are wall level too for getting pushed by his explosions.
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Him pushing her around on concrete with explosions implies that he's using force anyway. In order to do that you'd have to exert force, it's just how physics work. It's not like the force doesn't exist, in fact, his costume is designed in mind with shock absorbers for his explosions.
 
Earthyboy said:
Him pushing her around on concrete with explosions implies that he's using force anyway. In order to do that you'd have to exert force, it's just how physics work. It's not like the force doesn't exist, in fact, his costume is designed in mind with shock absorbers for his explosions.
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What about Ochako vs Bakugo implies any damage she took was due to force other than her being moved backwards.

Can Bakugo push around 5% Deku with his explosions? Yes, and not while he's in mid air, or off guard, or any other excuse. Deku was facing Bakugo dead on after blocking a stun grenade, got hit with an explosion that wasn't even close to high 8-c, and was launched into the air. Not only that, he coughs as if he's been punched in the chest by sufficient force. Does blocking yourself from a blinding attack mean you're off guard now too?

Earthyboy said:
Most of the time when Deku used 5 and 8% Full Cowl, he wasn't pushed back against the explosions Bakugo used on him. Even when he was, he was mostly unaffected due to being in midair.
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Incorrect. Only 8% was even somewhat mid air because he was going for a kick. 5% was on the ground and was sent several feet into the air in pain.

Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
5% Only got pushed by an explosion approaching the size of ground beta's buildings. 8% only ever got pushed in midair.
Click to expand...
So he got pushed by a non high 8-c explosion. How is that possible if he'd be at least more than 3x stronger than such an explosion and was even guarding against it. That level of explosion even made him cough like he was punched.

Is Kurogiri wall level for being pushed away and threatened by the physical force of Bakugo's explosions. Is Compress wall level for being pushed back by an explosion from Bakugo. Why are we treating Uraraka or Base Deku like they are wall level when the only indications of damage they took is burn marks and being pushed, yet other characters that take the same damage we say are not affected by the force in anyway.
 
Can't we scale everyone from Kaminari's Indiscriminate Shock and be done with this?
 
Earthyboy said:
I don't think there's a single calc on this site that suggests MHA is close or at MHS. The closest you'd get would be Prime All Might but he's practically featless.
Click to expand...
Kaminari exists. His electricity not only packs more energy than a lightning bolt but has several traits associated with actual electricity.
Kingofwolves999 said:
Incorrect. Only 8% was even somewhat mid air because he was going for a kick. 5% was on the ground and was sent several feet into the air in pain.

So he got pushed by a non high 8-c explosion. How is that possible if he'd be at least more than 3x stronger than such an explosion and was even guarding against it. That level of explosion even made him cough like he was punched.

Is Kurogiri wall level for being pushed away and threatened by the physical force of Bakugo's explosions. Is Compress wall level for being pushed back by an explosion from Bakugo. Why are we treating Uraraka or Base Deku like they are wall level when the only indications of damage they took is burn marks and being pushed, yet other characters that take the same damage we say are not affected by the force in anyway.
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I don't get how I'm incorrect but ok.

I don't even agree with High 8C 5% cause he's almost as strong as Bakugou's max explosions.

Bakugou literally jumped into Kurogiri detonated an explosion and was forced down by Bakugo's hand. Kurogiri literally has no clue how strong Bakugou is and also happens to be a mostly featless character who is subject to burns. I never argued any of them were wall level.
 
You guys are quite literally cherry picking who scales to what.

The argument right now is: "All these characters who got pushed back by Bakugo's explosions are wall level, but all these other characters that got pushed back by his explosions aren't. Reasoning: His heat ignores durability."
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
What about Ochako vs Bakugo implies any damage she took was due to force other than her being moved backwards.

Can Bakugo push around 5% Deku with his explosions? Yes, and not while he's in mid air, or off guard, or any other excuse. Deku was facing Bakugo dead on after blocking a stun grenade, got hit with an explosion that wasn't even close to high 8-c, and was launched into the air. Not only that, he coughs as if he's been punched in the chest by sufficient force. Does blocking yourself from a blinding attack mean you're off guard now too?


Incorrect. Only 8% was even somewhat mid air because he was going for a kick. 5% was on the ground and was sent several feet into the air in pain.


So he got pushed by a non high 8-c explosion. How is that possible if he'd be at least more than 3x stronger than such an explosion and was even guarding against it. That level of explosion even made him cough like he was punched.

Is Kurogiri wall level for being pushed away and threatened by the physical force of Bakugo's explosions. Is Compress wall level for being pushed back by an explosion from Bakugo. Why are we treating Uraraka or Base Deku like they are wall level when the only indications of damage they took is burn marks and being pushed, yet other characters that take the same damage we say are not affected by the force in anyway.
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Pushing around someone does not mean you scale to their durability. Deku was caught off guard to begin with because Bakugo managed to stun him. That's literally what the stun grenade move is for, stunning his enemies for a little bit. It wasn't even shown specified how big the explosion was that hit him, because we don't see it fully. So, you can't really argue that against me.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
You guys are quite literally cherry picking who scales to what.

The argument right now is: "All these characters who got pushed back by Bakugo's explosions are wall level, but all these other characters that got pushed back by his explosions aren't. Reasoning: His heat ignores durability."
Click to expand...
King please read my posts properly. I never said anyone is wall level. All I said is Uraraka was somewhat harmed by Bakugou's force due to scrapes and I didn't even press it when you responed. 5% literally got pushed by an explosion approaching the size of ground beta's buildings.

And if you really wanna talk cherry picking that'd be the people ignoring the size of Bakugou's explosions to say their all High 8C.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
You guys are quite literally cherry picking who scales to what.

The argument right now is: "All these characters who got pushed back by Bakugo's explosions are wall level, but all these other characters that got pushed back by his explosions aren't. Reasoning: His heat ignores durability."
Click to expand...
We're not saying everyone who got pushed back by his explosions is Wall level. The characters who withstood the smaller explosions still have to withstand the force of it, so they would scale. We never argued that them being pushed back is what makes them Wall level, it's the force and AP from the explosion that they tanked is what does.

This is why we can't say the High 8-C's are Wall level because again, pushing someone back isn't really an AP feat for you when most of the time you're caught off guard or are in mid-air. All other examples of a High 8-C being pushed back by a small explosion would be an outlier.
 
Therefir said:
Yes, many students from Class 1-A and Class 1-B were fine after the Indiscriminate Shock, Todoroki even had to freeze the feet of some of those teams in order to stop them
Click to expand...
What makes his Indiscriminate Shock Building level again? It's mostly used to stun people.
 
Earthyboy said:
Pushing around someone does not mean you scale to their durability. Deku was caught off guard to begin with because Bakugo managed to stun him. That's literally what the stun grenade move is for, stunning his enemies for a little bit. It wasn't even shown specified how big the explosion was that hit him, because we don't see it fully. So, you can't really argue that against me.
Click to expand...
Except Deku blocked the stun grenade, that's the whole point of his arm being in front of his face. You're telling me Izuku Midoriya, the guy who doesn't flinch at breaking his limbs at all and who at that moment was more invested in fighting than anything else, became off guard to the point that a building level explosion could hurt him and send him flying, just because he blocked his sight from the stun grenade, a technique he already knew about, while fully hearing bakugo charge an explosion while coming at him.

We both know that that explosion wouldn't be anywhere near high 8-c even if we saw the full of it.

Insert_creative_name_here_12 said:
King please read my posts properly. I never said anyone is wall level. All I said is Uraraka was somewhat harmed by Bakugou's force due to scrapes and I didn't even press it when you responed. 5% literally got pushed by an explosion approaching the size of ground beta's buildings.

And if you really wanna talk cherry picking that'd be the people ignoring the size of Bakugou's explosions to say their all High 8C.
Click to expand...
That's not cherry picking actually, that's the exact opposite. Either way, most of what i'm saying isn't directed at you, i'm speaking in broad terms, though i guess its mostly at earthboy

Earthyboy said:
We're not saying everyone who got pushed back by his explosions is Wall level. The characters who withstood the smaller explosions still have to withstand the force of it, so they would scale. We never argued that them being pushed back is what makes them Wall level, it's the force and AP from the explosion that they tanked is what does.

This is why we can't say the High 8-C's are Wall level because again, pushing someone back isn't really an AP feat for you when most of the time you're caught off guard or are in mid-air. All other examples of a High 8-C being pushed back by a small explosion would be an outlier.
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So why is literally anyone wall level and we aren't just downscaling. If every single instance of small explosions pushing back or harming other characters is an outlier, than why are Deku and Ochako's instances not outliers. Why are they specifically wall level.

You're saying "these characters are wall level because they tanked wall level force from these explosions." But then turning around and saying "Ignore every instance of high 8-c's tanking small explosions, those are outliers."

Why are you cherry picking who is high 8-c and who isn't based on the exact same feats.
 
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