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Making it compulsory to list sources for multi-work series

Furthermore, scans are already doing a valid job. With references, you either propose one of 2 things. The complete eradication of scans, or a mix of both scans and references. Eradicating scans is a hassle would just encourage users to bullshit statistics that would be harder for for people to source because they would have to go through the effort of actually hunting down said source. Mixing would be redundant because the scans already do the work.

Again, I'm all for references. I just don't think they should be mandatory.
 
We could put in a template/category on pages that have no scans/sources like "Citations Needed" and this could make it easier for people to help out if they looked at the list of pages affected.
 
Scans are not doing the job just fine. Have you not seen the countless Marvel/DC pages and threads with an onslault of out of context scans? Besides, scans can get taken down, sources are eternal. There is literally no reason to not vouch for this other then t being to much work, which is an excuse we're relying on too much.

Edit: The citation needed category is a good idea too.
 
If my English teacher won't read through my 15 references in my book report, 2 of which I bullshitted, what makes you think anyone would go through 100 references in big pages?

Do you understand how easy it will be to slip something in there that very few will bother to fact check just because they have to go to the source themselves instead of having it already on the page?

The only people who would actually know the source, likely already support the verse, and can provide scans anyway, so this is redundant.
 
I also agree about that we can keep all the linked scans, but our rules should also very heavily encourage using references in addition to that when it is appropriate, such as for the Marvel and DC Comics pages.
 
If we simply do a combination then I'm in favour of that, for comics I'd say mainly keep it for scaling important battle and more esoteric powers (I.e stuff outside basic shit like flight or heat manipulation)
 
I agree with Ovens too. If this becomes compulsory, it will make life harder for a major part of our userbase and they will be driven away. This is a free wiki where users can come create and edit pages. We already have strict standards for our profiles and they are deleted if there are no evidences. As long as they are linking scans for their abilities and stats, it should be fine. Yes, references should be heavily encouraged, but not made compulsory.

We can gradually work verse by verse, like first focus on comics and then users can take initiative for their verses and then it will become a norm. We can think about making it compulsory when that time comes.
 
I in principle agree that sources should be provided in the form of respect blogs/pages, references, scans or the feat section on the profile.
I think we always encouraged doing so. If it becomes a rule now then it should strictly only apply to profiles that are created from now on (and that aren't already in planning). Trying to put references on all old pages would be a ridiculous workload.

In favour to not make it too hard on casual users one could also consider really only requiring it for everything related to stats and notable hax. Sourcing the ability to shoot fireballs is nice, but nobody would ever really use the source for that anyways.
 
I agree with AKM as usual.
 
Damage3245 said:
We could put in a template/category on pages that have no scans/sources like "Citations Needed" and this could make it easier for people to help out if they looked at the list of pages affected.
Click to expand...

Thoughts on this suggestion? Before anybody responds with "That's too much work", this isn't a compulsory rule but could just be something people add to pages as they come across them.
 
...so this is the levels of proposals you have against this? "It's too much work"?

I am like, extremely disappointed in the workforce mustered here then, if you aren't able to provide sources in the pages, it's sheer laziness on your end and is only supporting gatekeeping and this has NEVER been a standard I have seen in most decent indexing sites, that not listing what the thing comes from.

No I do want people here who are arguing "this should be encouraged, not a rule" to apply this to every single one of their verses, I am encouraging them to do so, if they fail to, well looks like encouragement wasn't effective after all, was it?
 
I've seen verses that link the exact page number and work in terms of books on blogs and like...I don't see the major problem if the relevant section of those is linked over a reference? It basically accomplishes the same thing? Granted this is just one example but it's an example where I don't think a major intervention is needed.

Also I'd like to point out the illegal links problem Andy brought up can easily be fixed by...using Imgur? Or any other file sharing site that is not illegal in nature? In fact weren't we already doing that?

Otherwise I'm rather neutral on this.
 
Hey, chill. This wiki is huge, and a full-wiki alteration of something like this, to say the very least, is going to have concerns of over how reasonable such would be to do.
 
I get the reason of why we should source but as many others has pointed out, it could be time consuming and we probably have to encourage first before making it absolute, though only our heavenly Father knows how long that would be. Personally, I think we should limit this to abilities that seems rather rare to the character.
 
The issue is that I as a person completely blind to say, Kingdom Hearts, am not about to resort to going through 20 hours of in-game cutscenes just to prove if nonexistent physiology is legit. I'd just ask a supporter to explain it to me and provide scans.

The reference at that point would just be rendered moot.
 
Amelia_Lonelyheart said:
Yeah, but it's difficult to revise something if you don't know the source.
Click to expand...
Ask for the proof and the source there. Don't just randomly agree or disagree with the OP in CRTs if that's the case.

If you can't go out of your way to ask for the source in CRTs where you are supposed to do that so that you can be fully convinced in whatever you say on that CRT what makes you think it's ok for you to make it mandatory to have people add sources to their pages.

All in all: Just do your job as staff when asked to give opinion on a CRT made by someone, don't just revise the entire freaking wiki.
 
I'm fine with wanting quotes, though I don't think the citation method should be the only way to go.

In some cases where a lot of characters scale to one set of powers (Steven Universe, Digimon, Ergenverse, etc), since many characters will share tens to hundreds (yes, that is something that is being reached by some verses I work on) of abilities, this is especially true. Being allowed to gather quotes into a blog that is linked would be far, far simpler in such cases.
 
I'm with Ovens too

Not to mention we already use blogs for stuff that needs extensive context anyways, so while I think references should be allowed they shouldn't be necessary for pages.
 
Tbf I understand the convenience aspect of what Zark and Mel are suggesting. It is after all easier to click on a link rather than go through the entire process of going to the verse page, checking the supporters list, asking one of them to comment and waiting for the reply.

I still remain neutral though, I'm leaning on AKM's side on this one.
 
Damage3245 said:
Thoughts on this suggestion? Before anybody responds with "That's too much work", this isn't a compulsory rule but could just be something people add to pages as they come across them.
Click to expand...
Yeah I think it's a good idea.
 
Crabwhale said:
It is after all easier to click on a link rather than go through the entire process of going to the verse page, checking the supporters list, asking one of them to comment and waiting for the reply.
Click to expand...
From what zark said, the references won't be in links. Cus a lot of them would need to include pirate pages so that's a no go.

So either you have to ask a supporter, or you have to search the scene yourself through google.
 
We would also have to take into account the logistics of non-staff wanting to add references to locked pages, and if this were to become mandatory from here on out, new users would have to be acquainted with adding references to pages before they are made.

I will admit, this is not new user friendly and will probably discourage quite a number of people from attempting to make pages.
 
So long as it's integrated slowly and steadily yes
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Uhm.....that's what CRT's are for?
Click to expand...
CRTs are for fixing this shit, this right here is prevention.


Sir_Ovens said:
The issue is that I as a person completely blind to say, Kingdom Hearts, am not about to resort to going through 20 hours of in-game cutscenes just to prove if nonexistent physiology is legit. I'd just ask a supporter to explain it to me and provide scans.

The reference at that point would just be rendered moot.
Click to expand...
"Let me bring you the most hyperspecific example I can think of"

And 80 hours of ingame cutscenes are more than 20 hours, if you didn't know Ovens.

Firephoenixearl said:
Ask for the proof and the source there. Don't just randomly agree or disagree with the OP in CRTs if that's the case.

If you can't go out of your way to ask for the source in CRTs where you are supposed to do that so that you can be fully convinced in whatever you say on that CRT what makes you think it's ok for you to make it mandatory to have people add sources to their pages.

All in all: Just do your job as staff when asked to give opinion on a CRT made by someone, don't just revise the entire freaking wiki.
Click to expand...
Earl here now has guaranteed to me, every verse supporter will provide me with sources and citations, every time I want, therefore thye can never leave and obviously no verse goes dead on the wiki.

If you can guarantee me this level of diligence from supporters for EVERY one of the thousnads of verses we list, and you will personally see to that they DO in fact do this, then there is no need, yes.

But wiki sadly isn't maintained by immortal robots who will never die out and don't have personal needs.


Firephoenixearl said:
or you have to search the scene yourself through google.
Click to expand...
Ah yes because Google is just so damn complex and non-user friendly that anyone using a google search is outside the realm of possibility, and waiting for days on a user who may or may not even respond, is definitely far more reliable.


Sir_Ovens said:
We would also have to take into account the logistics of non-staff wanting to add references to locked pages,
Click to expand...
You can literally say this for anything, what are you on about?


Sir_Ovens said:
new users would have to be acquainted with adding references to pages before they are made.
Click to expand...
Good.


Sir_Ovens said:
I will admit, this is not new user friendly and will probably discourage quite a number of people from attempting to make pages
Click to expand...
If they're the type so lazy to not even list sources for the crap they're jamming into profiles, good.
 
I can understand not requiring every page to have references, but pages created from this point on should require it. At least where it's reasonable
 
I'm with Ovens here. This is pretty good for comics, whose chapters tend to be smaller, and books, where you can just transcript to somewhere else, but how does a visual novel or a video game deal with this? For example, Umineko is divided into 8 episodes, each being 20 hours long. It wouldn't be much different from going "just go play the game lol". Any gacha, MMO or tabletop also suffers immensely from this.
 
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