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Making it compulsory to list sources for multi-work series

The_Impress

She/Her
VS Battles
Retired
11,800
7,356
This is something that is surprisingly not a rule, or something that is even done often

But I want to ask for a proposal to the editing rules and standard format for profiles, that we make it compulsory for people to source statements made within profile, for any multi-work series i.e. Series which can be split into chapters, episodes, installments or issues. Therefore manga, light novels and book profiles have to list the chapters, comic profile have to list issues or strip, TV and Anime profiles have to list season and episode number, and Film and Video Games have to list the installment.

Why to do this? To state the obvious, it is to reduce possibility for adding uninformed/unmotivated statistics and ensure transparency between verse supporters and non-verse supporters, or even in between verse supporters. This is something that should have been done from the ABSOLUTE beginning, but for some reason... wasn't.

I obviously do not expect literally everyone to get on board and fix all of it RIGHT NOW, but I think a rule could be made and this can be integrated gradually.

Where to list these sources? One can use the references section code to ensure proper format.

NOTE: A thing exempt from this current proposal are feats whose abundance is present in an overwhelming majority of every multi-work appearance, for example, Superman's Flight, The Terminator's Inorganic Physiology, Goku's Ki Manipulation, Sonic's Superhuman Speed, Spongebob's Underwater Breathing and whatnot. Basically anything that a person can open a random chapter, and 99% of the time they will see evidence in support of it.
 
Basically, you want this done for everything.

I'm not opposed to the idea, but I'm opposed to it being mandatory. This is very alienating to new editors.
 
I'm in agreement with this proposal. It just makes sense.

I don't think we need to make it a strict rule, but we need it brought up more in guidelines and encouraged more.
 
I'm not opposed to this idea wise, but there have been other large scale revisions of the same caliber rejected on the basis of being too much effort like changing frag values

why is this any different in that regard?
 
For minor things from comics/manga etc, simply linking the scan works. We obviously don't need to specify the chapter number and whatnot for every little thing as long as they have direct evidences linked right there on the profile.

I do get the point of listing them for very important statistics for people who might wanna check if it is out of context or not. This will help a lot especially with comics.
 
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I think this should be limited to either major fights for scaling or stuff that's context heavy where you'd need to scan the whole comic to showcase
 
Some verses like Parahumans manage to get by with adding references for important points on some of their profiles. Case in point here: Alexandria.

It could easily be added for some other profiles in time.
 
Some verses like Parahumans manage to get by with adding references for important points on some of their profiles. Case in point here: Alexandria.

It could easily be added for some other profiles in time.
Lol worm's not the greatest response to AKM's complaint because for that we really do just refbox nearly everything due to it's format making it very easy to just copy paste into pastebins
 
One issue I have is that a lot people read manga through pirate sites, which we aren't supposed to link. How do we cite references in that case?

I agree with listing references when possible though, it's a very basic principle of presenting information
 
One issue I have is that a lot people read manga through pirate sites, which we aren't supposed to link. How do we cite references in that case?
You can just reference the chapter/issue without linking to the site itself.

And I agree with Wok. Asking for a reform like this for almost 30k profiles is absurd, but I agree with this being more heavily encouraged than it already is.
 
Citation is an important enough thing that I don't think we should ignore under the reasoning of "too much work". It's problematic to reject any big change because of the size of our wiki, plus we can try gradually making the change and prevent new pages from doing this
 
I agree with AKM's and Wokistan's takes on this issue:

Very heavily encouraged, and focused on referencing the more important information. We do not have to add references for every little thing, especially if linked image evidence has been included, and definitely cannot start to delete the many thousand pages that currently lack them.

In addition, the changes would obviously have to be gradual.

In a few years we might be able to turn "very heavily encouraged" into "mandatory", but it is not realistic to do so from the beginning.
 
> and definitely cannot start to delete the many thousand pages that currently lack them.

Did anybody even suggest this?
 
No, but I wanted to state it for the sake of clarification anyway.
 
Zark was kinda implying it elsewhere, but nobody on this thread suggested that
 
I have to ask how'd we even go about implanting the changes now, since this seems to mainly target Marvel/DC who will now hunt the sources of all the scans?
 
Well, the changes will have to be gradual, as I mentioned earlier. We have to hope that our community is largely willing to help out.
 
And by gradual we mean what?
Again who will be in charge of doing said changes now, since I assume we'll start trying to change pages to fit this format if this CRT passes
 
I obviously do not expect literally everyone to get on board and fix all of it RIGHT NOW, but I think a rule could be made and this can be integrated gradually.
I never said "lol just delete them"

I'd rather them be like Intelligence standards, and integrated slowly. Especially I want the (Optional) part of References section removed from standard format


And by gradual we mean what?
Any future revisions or pages will have to follow this from now on, and 6 to 8 months into the future, it can be a criteria for deletion.

This is what I mean
 
What about CRTs that were made before this but have been frozen because of other going CRTs for the same verse?
 
Can my Nova CRT be opened to do that then?
Will listing the run be enough if it's fairly small or every one needs issue listed?
 
6 to 8 months is not nearly enough to revise almost 25,000 pages in this advanced regard, especially given our other extremely important upcoming projects, such as making all of them more mobile friendly, and linking the verse pages and more popular character profile pages to their corresponding tags here.

We have to stick with "very heavily encouraged" for quite a long time.
 
Yeah, no. I'm not about to delete pages just because I didn't reference a specific part of a specific piece of media. If I can slap a scan link onto a page, that should be enough. This is extra effort with steep consequences that would only benefit long running multi-media verses.

I'm not doing references for a one-off inde game.
 
You won't have to do references for a one-off indie game. Please read the thread before ham-fistedly trying to illustrate your points.

Scan-links lose context anyhow, and Ovens your pages ESPECIALLY suffer from lack of context or transparency because you off-site provide SO MANY elaborate explanations for statistics which are listed NOWHERE in your pages. If anything this is the kind of revision you SHOULD follow for once
 
Well, as I mentioned, mandatory is currently severe overkill, and deleting all pages without references within 6-8 months would destroy the wiki, but stating that it is very heavily encouraged to include references for statistics and other important information seems like a good idea.
 
Dargoo's revision were "heavily encouraged" too regarding this topic.

It did nothing. People have no jurisdiction to ask for sources because it isn't a rule OR. a guideline
 
I was vouching for this a few days ago, admittedly in the context of comic profiles since they get it worse then any other medium on the site, so I agree with this. It'll be a lot of work, but it'll be worth it I think.
 
If pages don't have sources, then they're simply unreliable. Isn't that something we're always against? People have joked for ages that they can just make obscure verses and wank them up the wazoo because they don't have to source anything. People joke about that because it's kind of been done, a lot. Making it compulsory to source stuff will mitigate that level of unreliability.
 
If anyone was making pages thinking they would never have to list sources, they're being ridiculously naive.

Like, this is something you learn in school even, if you are making claims and stats, you need to list the damn sources.


I also hope you understand how hard this will be to implement for powers that are done without scans, like logical conclusion based feats such as acausality.
Are they done without evidence? If they have evidence you're listing, provide a reference to where said evidence is sourced.

I have to ask, those disagreeing this ridiculously with this as Ovens is, have you NEVER submitted a project in your life that required you to list sources for your claims?

I am not comprising on this not being a deletion criteria, especially for manga, book and comic verses. You can extend the date for this to be a deletion criteria to an year or half, but I refuse to accept this as ANY form of valid pagemaking.
 
Yeah, ok. Scans are doing that job perfectly. If I have come upon an ancient verse with scans that no one longer supports, do we just yeet it for not having references? Like the scans are all there, and everything is legitimate. Do we still just yeet the verse then? That would be a legitimate waste of time and effort for a page that would have been otherwise fine without references.
 
Anyway, in theory I agree with Impress and Amelia about that it would be wonderful if all our profile pages could use this system, but in practice we will have to initially make it very heavily encouraged, and then wait a few years until we make it mandatory.

Also, as Ovens said, scans are often perfectly fine, and if the statistics source are from a single game, should all of them list the game a single source?

I find it more reasonable to use this in conjunction with scans, explanation blogs, and calculations, not as a replacement.
 
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