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Madoka Kaname vs Cirno

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Scarletmoon56

Scarletmoon56

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Madoka vs Cirno


The first gosh damn PMMM and Touhou matchup to have ever crossed this site ƒÿæ.

EDIT: Votes have to be redone due to Madoka's new set of abilities.

ƒÆ« Madoka KanameƒÆ« -

ƒåÜ

ƒìº Cirnoƒìº- 3 (TheJ-ManRequiem, Andykhang, , FateAlbane)

Tie - 3 (Kaltias, Fllflourine, SD)


Haha jokes aside, they're both pretty even for the most part so I would like to see how this would turn out. Fodder Strongest wants to take on the Messesiah of Magical Girls

Conditions:

+ Magical Girl Madoka (6-C)

+ Speed Equalized

+ Both are in Character

+ Win via K.O, Incapacitated or Death
 
Madoka is a higher end of 6-C, being roughly 2.5 times stronger, and she has a much better ranged game, paired with healing to recover every time that Cirno comes back, so I think that she could win

232732505826561153600 joules to 90332123612408180000
 
Just ... how good is her range game exactly? Cause saying you have a better range game than a Touhou character is a bold statement. And cause this is the same Cirno who can casually freeze projectiles and just dodge around. And it's not like Cirno is gonna be giving up anytime soon and the environment is gonna be more and more frozen. Wouldn't overuse of magic also be bad for any puella? Been awhile since I watched the series.

And this is why I dislike overreliance on exact statistical values.
 
From my knowledge on both, gotta say Cirno, she can freeze projectiles solid easily so that's covered and ice manip coukd come in handy. Of course my info on Madoka comes solely from the anime, so if there's some manga I'm missing correct please.
 
@COB

I meant that she has a faar higher range and the tendency to abuse it. Cirno would demolish her if she had to stay in danmaku range, but she doesn't have to. Also given that Madoka's magical supplies where being boosted with each reset, she shouldn't have problems spamming attacks.

Also to my knowledge, the anime tells everything about this version of Madoka
 
Ahhh gotcha. But in the end... having extensive range over someone who's superior in close combat might not be enough. After all, if someone with a hybrid sniper rifle machine gun keeps firing at someone who can cut apart hypersonic bullets with ease, it won't trouble them too much. Aka Cirno can just overwhelm with more danmaku to blot out said attacks or just make ice barriers.

Of course there's stil a limit then
 
The thing is that the person with the sniper rifle isn't going to stand still, but will do anything to keep the enemy at a safe distance.

There is. But keep in mind that even timeline 2 Madoka had a higher stamina than Sayaka, who needed to face her fair share of traumatic experiences, as well as fighting with a strategy where being impaled was just a nuisance to become a witch, and timeline 100 Madoka (this one) is leagues above her previous self.
 
Yup, so it's a battle of attrition. Alongside the fact that winter is coming, or being replicated really. Probably. Unless they got bored and call it quits and become friends. (Which seems logical for these two to do lol)

Minor issue, is that stamina better than Homura during the last fight in the anime? Cause if so then I think the stamina issue advantage is on Cirno.
 
They would definitely be great friends.

Homura has the lowest stamina out of all the puella magi
 
Cirno for reason above. Madoka wouldn't be able to kill her unless she could cook the planet, which only possible if it's her "giant meteor" version.
 
>Madoka has superior everything and Cirno is basically winning on immortality alone

Not quite what i define "wouldn't be able to kill her"
 
Cirno's immortality says she will "be revived". How long does this take? It also says she'll give up if she is killed too often which is hardly impossible. Incap also is a very valid option. Shooting off her legs and arms, knocking her unconscious, imprisoning her within a web of arrows, etc

Hell, Madoka's range game advantage is large enough that I'd say she could take a short break, recover her stamina, then continue shooting at Cirno.

I'm going to vote Madoka here via enough range game that she can easily snipe Cirno to death from a distance repeatedly, and eventually force her to give up. Or just incapacitate her
 
Yeah, in-character wise, Cirno would probably give up before Madoka do. In-character wise though, Madoka wouldn't do thing like shooting someone limb off. And Cirno could actually freeze her arrow before it even touch her, and control that instead (as show in Freeze Sign "Perfect Freeze").

And again, like COB said above, she could just overwhelme her in close combat, where her Danmaku density outperform her anyway. Switch to inconclusive too.
 
She destroyed Mami's Soul Gem when she had to. I fail to see why she wouldn't destroy the limbs of someone that she wants to kill. Not to mention that it could happen very easily due to Madoka's superior stats. She could destroy her limbs just because she aimed at the stomach and Cirno tried to dodge

And Madoka doesn't let enemies get up close and personal. So CQC isn't much of a factor here.
 
Are you guys forgetting about the fact that Cirno can freeze projectiles midair? (And she can freeze a spam of them, and it doesn't take a while for it to recharge). As for incapacitation, why shouldn't she be able to suicide in order to respawn? Can't she just shoot herself if she finds herself cornered?

Also "Cirno will give up" can be applied to ANY immortal. If you're going by that then "Mokou, Eirin, Hecatia, Remilia, can all lose if they just give up lol":

  • 682 loses via giving up
  • Majin Buu loses via giving up
  • Aku loses via giving up
Even then the's also not the type to give up easily even under pressure (Do you really think THE STRONGEST will give up? Or let her opponent take a break for that matter). The only instance she "gave up" was in a goddamn "fight" (that was not even an actual fight) against the Three Fairies of Light.

Surely, she'll definitely do the same in a battle to the death.
 
I mean, I use what's on her profile. It says that she could give up, so I use it. Also, how long does it take? Because if it's more than a day that's a win for Madoka.

And incapacitating her is very much possible because Madoka has far better stamina and making her faint for one hour is a victory for KO
 
That probably shouldn't be on her profile anyway. That's the exact same logic that could be used for any immortals. "Oh, even if they can't die they will eventually give up anyway."

The time is unknown, but some fairies could take only a few hours to regenerate from death (Like, late night until the sunrise). Even then, that's because they had passed out.
 
>I mean, I use what's on her profile. It says that she could give up, so I use it. Also, how long does it take? Because if it's more than a day that's a win for Madoka.

She has never been in a real fight, but as far as spellcard rules goes, she is able to fight Utsuho for a moment, even though she was melting Again, the only time she "gave up" was in a non-lethal battle against the three fairies of light, and like Saikou says, it shouldn't be on the profile, but w/e.

Same profile also includes freezing projectiles mid-air. Are you still ignoring this?
 
I'm not ignoring it. It's why I also said that she can win via outlasting her instead of simply killing her over and over. The AP gap still helps because it means that Madoka takes little damage from her attacks while Cirno has to be careful and not allow herself to be hit. Pair it with the stamina and healing, and victory via KO is a feasible option.

Also, does the bullet freezing ignore the AP of the bullet itself?
 
>Also, does the bullet freezing ignore the AP of the bullet itself?

Doesn't matter here, regardless of whether or not she can do that, she can still freeze bullets that are 6-C levels of casual from Marisa.

The AP gap is also more narrower than other fights I've seen. It's only a ~2.5x difference, and she doesn't need to be as careful thanks to her resurrective immortality (Also, can't she just dodge? As a touhou character she's able to dodge hell of a lot of punishment from bullet rain to the point even Marisa, who is very skilled in Danmaku, had to get serious against her)

Both combatants are rated as having "Superhuman" Stamina on their profiles but I digress. It varies from series to series, but Cirno shrugs off dying and persists afterwards. Winning this will require her having to kill Cirno repeatedly.

Also, can she heal in the heat of battle?
 
It always irritates me that people think Touhou characters can be overwhelmed by ranged attacks for that reasoning. Touhou is a literal bullet hell. Some people assume they're unable to freaking dodge.

In any case the likelier scenario is that Cirno keeps dodging. Also yeah someone fix that profile issue.
 
It does matter quite a lot. But if she can freeze 6-C bullets it should be ok.

2x is the usual lowball for "effortlessly stomped this guy". 2,5 is quite a significant gap. Not one-shot territory, but still fairly big. She can dodge, but this is stamina consuming.

Madoka's is superhuman by virtue of being leagues above people who are leagues above people who can keep fighting after being impaled. Also if she dies that's hardly "shrugging it off".

She can. It consumes a bit of magical stamina though
 
"2x is the usual lowball for "effortlessly stomped this guy". 2,5 is quite a significant gap. Not one-shot territory, but still fairly big. She can dodge, but this is stamina consuming."

Mate 2x just means that one punch feels like two punch. Not even accounting that Cirno's 6-C feat was done in a play context. A 6-C attack to Touhou girls is the equivalent of a softball fight.
 
>> "2x just means that one punch feels like two punch"

Not voting but actually on this level it's like taking a nuke twice as potent to the face. The higher the AP, the more evident/significant the gap.
 
Yeah, but if you felt a nuke like a punch to the face, then a nuke twice as potent is just a punch twice as potent.
 
Each attack is at 2 ~ 2.5 stronger than what Cirno can safely endure. I'm not saying Madoka hits or that Cirno can't freeze it, resurrect later or anything. Just pointing out that tanking attacks that are at least twice as powerful as what you're using to taking at your best isn't the best approach.

If she gets hit, she'll be feeling it. It's, again, +2 times what she can safely take at her best.
 
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