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THIS IS A STAFF ONLY THREAD
Writing a Summary of what's been going down in the old thread, which has since reached over 300 replies and is kinda unreadable to newcomers.
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/676828
^ Here it is if you'd like to read through it all.
Okay, so what has been concluded and what is still being debated:
Massively FTL Buu: Has been agreed to be wrong, as the feat was based on shaky assumptions that are contradicted by the manga proper. When I made the calculation, I assumed that Buu flew across the galaxy like in the anime, but the manga states that Bibidi would seal him, and use his spaceship to drive Buu into his next target, and then release him again. This is why the East Kaioshin was capable of stopping Buu in the end.
Goku Crossing Namek: Has also been rejected, as the claim that Goku was on the other side of the planet only comes from the back-cover of the Viz Media edition of the manga, and doesn't specifically state that Goku was literally at a equatorial radius away. It is also contradicted by the manga proper, as Goku was healing inside Freeza's ship, and Vegeta from Freeza's ship could see Porunga in the horizon, and Goku himself later states that they are nearby when he leaves his healing.
Lightspeed Death Beam: Also being rejected. The argument here is that the Death Beam is a Lightspeed Laser because of three reasons: It is stated to be a "beam of light", it moves at a straight line, and "burns on contact".
However, that isn't exactly true. Piccolo has a vague statement about it being a "flash of light", but numerous other attacks in Dragon Ball have similar descriptions such as King Piccolo's "Eye laser", the Dodonpa and the Red Ribbon's Robot Laser Cannon. The description from the guidebook is also inconclusive, and only comes from the Daizenshuu's spanish version. Thirdly, it doesn't "burn on contact", but rather pierces through the target's body. Something that any concentrated Ki Wave can do (Piccolo's Makankosappo, Tien's Dodonpa, King Piccolo's Eye Lasers, and even Kuririn's Kamehameha when he pierces Vegeta). Finally, the Death Beam produces explosions when hitting the scenery.
The main issue here is:
Piccolo's Moon Feat: The argument here is that this is an outlier, as it is a feat done by Raditz-Era Piccolo that is only surpassed by feats from Dragon Ball Super. No one in all of Classic Dragon Ball ever comes close to reproducing a feat of this magnitude.
However, due to the recently recalculated Piccolo Jr. feat from Hypersonic+ to Massively Hypersonic+, some are not considering it to be an outlier, however both Antoniofier and The Real Cal Howard have problems with the approach.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RadicalMrR/Piccolo's_Ki_Blast
^ Here is the calc.
There are two ways this discussion can finish.
First Way: The Piccolo feat is accepted. If it is, then we would apply a scaling using Goku's Kaioken (Which is confirmed to scale linearly across all stats), which would end with Super Saiyajin Goku and 100% Final Form Freeza at FTL+. The FTL+ rating would continue throughout the Classic Dragon Ball characters, with Top Tiers from the Buu Saga being "At least FTL+, likely higher".
Second Way: Piccolo's feat is rejected. If this happens, then we would use an alternate feat: The speed of First Form Freeza's Supernova, and also apply a scaling that would end with Super Saiyajin Goku and 100% Final Form Freeza at FTL. This would continue upwards Classic DB, and by Buu Saga we would have FTL+ characters.
http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/freezas-base-death-ball-speed.33608/
^ Here is the calc. Done by God Movement who is probably the most knowledgeable Dragon Ball debater around.
So let's discuss our course of action.
THIS IS A STAFF ONLY THREAD.
Writing a Summary of what's been going down in the old thread, which has since reached over 300 replies and is kinda unreadable to newcomers.
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/676828
^ Here it is if you'd like to read through it all.
Okay, so what has been concluded and what is still being debated:
Massively FTL Buu: Has been agreed to be wrong, as the feat was based on shaky assumptions that are contradicted by the manga proper. When I made the calculation, I assumed that Buu flew across the galaxy like in the anime, but the manga states that Bibidi would seal him, and use his spaceship to drive Buu into his next target, and then release him again. This is why the East Kaioshin was capable of stopping Buu in the end.
Goku Crossing Namek: Has also been rejected, as the claim that Goku was on the other side of the planet only comes from the back-cover of the Viz Media edition of the manga, and doesn't specifically state that Goku was literally at a equatorial radius away. It is also contradicted by the manga proper, as Goku was healing inside Freeza's ship, and Vegeta from Freeza's ship could see Porunga in the horizon, and Goku himself later states that they are nearby when he leaves his healing.
Lightspeed Death Beam: Also being rejected. The argument here is that the Death Beam is a Lightspeed Laser because of three reasons: It is stated to be a "beam of light", it moves at a straight line, and "burns on contact".
However, that isn't exactly true. Piccolo has a vague statement about it being a "flash of light", but numerous other attacks in Dragon Ball have similar descriptions such as King Piccolo's "Eye laser", the Dodonpa and the Red Ribbon's Robot Laser Cannon. The description from the guidebook is also inconclusive, and only comes from the Daizenshuu's spanish version. Thirdly, it doesn't "burn on contact", but rather pierces through the target's body. Something that any concentrated Ki Wave can do (Piccolo's Makankosappo, Tien's Dodonpa, King Piccolo's Eye Lasers, and even Kuririn's Kamehameha when he pierces Vegeta). Finally, the Death Beam produces explosions when hitting the scenery.
The main issue here is:
Piccolo's Moon Feat: The argument here is that this is an outlier, as it is a feat done by Raditz-Era Piccolo that is only surpassed by feats from Dragon Ball Super. No one in all of Classic Dragon Ball ever comes close to reproducing a feat of this magnitude.
However, due to the recently recalculated Piccolo Jr. feat from Hypersonic+ to Massively Hypersonic+, some are not considering it to be an outlier, however both Antoniofier and The Real Cal Howard have problems with the approach.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RadicalMrR/Piccolo's_Ki_Blast
^ Here is the calc.
There are two ways this discussion can finish.
First Way: The Piccolo feat is accepted. If it is, then we would apply a scaling using Goku's Kaioken (Which is confirmed to scale linearly across all stats), which would end with Super Saiyajin Goku and 100% Final Form Freeza at FTL+. The FTL+ rating would continue throughout the Classic Dragon Ball characters, with Top Tiers from the Buu Saga being "At least FTL+, likely higher".
Second Way: Piccolo's feat is rejected. If this happens, then we would use an alternate feat: The speed of First Form Freeza's Supernova, and also apply a scaling that would end with Super Saiyajin Goku and 100% Final Form Freeza at FTL. This would continue upwards Classic DB, and by Buu Saga we would have FTL+ characters.
http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/freezas-base-death-ball-speed.33608/
^ Here is the calc. Done by God Movement who is probably the most knowledgeable Dragon Ball debater around.
So let's discuss our course of action.
THIS IS A STAFF ONLY THREAD.