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Guys calm down.
Bardock special = still not canon.
Bardock special = still not canon.
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Dragon Ball Speed Revisions: Summarized.
- Thread starter Matthew_Schroeder
- Start date
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- Tags
- dragon ball
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- #42
@TLT1
Calm down sonny.
They are unable to react to the incoming attack. They all just stand there without moving an inch. Them screaming isn't evidence that they can dodge it.
Calm down sonny.
They are unable to react to the incoming attack. They all just stand there without moving an inch. Them screaming isn't evidence that they can dodge it.
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The soldiers react to it, we know that travel speed is not good in dragon ball, so they would have figured that they can't escape in time.
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- #44
It kinda is to the original manga. It is directly referenced by Freeza. "You remind me of that last Saiyan who opposed me before I destroyed Planet Vegeta" (Picture of Bardock reminiscent of Special's fine scene is shown).SomebodyData said:
Debatable if it still is with Super, since Minus is a thing and the redone flashback has no Bardock.
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So, will we be using the bardock special for this? Just wanted to know before we went on
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- #46
No, we are going to use the DBS version. But since the Bardock Special was brought up (Saying that ordinary soldiers dodged it), I showed the scene to prove that they didn't dodge it nor react other than a general scream of horror as Freeza throws it.
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Well they obviously cannot dodge it due to abysmal travel speed. And unfortunately we dont get to see if they reacted to it either.
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As Matt said, we're using the DBS version. LT drop it, it is irrelevant to the argument.
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- #49
>Dodging
>Travel Speed.
I am fairly certain the correct term is "Movement Speed". Regardless, the DBS Version doesn't have any soldier in Freeza' way, and the Special version doesn't show the soldiers nor Bardock as capable of reacting to it.
A guy far weaker than even Freeza's fodder soldiers firing an even faster attack is an outlier.
>Travel Speed.
I am fairly certain the correct term is "Movement Speed". Regardless, the DBS Version doesn't have any soldier in Freeza' way, and the Special version doesn't show the soldiers nor Bardock as capable of reacting to it.
A guy far weaker than even Freeza's fodder soldiers firing an even faster attack is an outlier.
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As I mentioned elsewhere, please try to stay civil and respectful towards each other. This is just a discussion about entertainment. There are plenty of very serious problems in the world to get upset over currently, but this is not one of them.
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"Regardless, the DBS Version doesn't have any soldier in Freeza' way,"
But they still move massive distances in the time it takes to get to the planet.
But they still move massive distances in the time it takes to get to the planet.
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- #52
@SD
... Do they? They are on Freeza's sides, they didn't have to move away from the blast. They just watched the fireworks.
... Do they? They are on Freeza's sides, they didn't have to move away from the blast. They just watched the fireworks.
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Actually they did, else the pic I showed would have the soldiers in it, and they would have died easily.
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- #54
@SD
Angzising, son. They were all close to Freeza's ship . The image you show is "flat", having Vegeta at its center. They didn't move "significant distances" at all. The image doesn't even show Freeza's ship, so we can't tell from which angle it is.
Angzising, son. They were all close to Freeza's ship . The image you show is "flat", having Vegeta at its center. They didn't move "significant distances" at all. The image doesn't even show Freeza's ship, so we can't tell from which angle it is.
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Is Bardack and Frieza's ship that far from the planet? Bardack was able to breath and talk normally, so I'm guessing that they were that separated from the planet, but is possible that was Toriyama/Toei the ones that forget that they can't breath in space...
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... You know they were all around the planet right? Even if the image is flat we should have seen them.
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- #57
@SD
I see debree, not soldiers.
I see debree, not soldiers.
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- #59
Angsizing gets the ship to be at 22,566,636.29 meters from Vegeta. Don't make this even more complicated.
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"Debatable if it still is with Super, since Minus is a thing and the redone flashback has no Bardock."
To be fair, Minus has its own big plot holes (Goku's pod going to Earth was not a logged mission, it was stolen by Bardock and Gine to save their son from the planet's imminent demise, so why the hell does Raditz say he was sent to Earth to clean up the population? For that matter, how did he find out that was Goku's pod in the first place?).
To be fair, Minus has its own big plot holes (Goku's pod going to Earth was not a logged mission, it was stolen by Bardock and Gine to save their son from the planet's imminent demise, so why the hell does Raditz say he was sent to Earth to clean up the population? For that matter, how did he find out that was Goku's pod in the first place?).
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I know I'm not a staff member, but I just have a simple question, (this will be my only post on this thread). It's regarding Roshi's Moon feat. Is it only the AP of the feat that's considered an outlier, or the speed too?
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- #64
Yes, unless you think Roshi is Relativistic.MeleeniumRXJ said:
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Guess they're that far, artist in DB tend to draw distance between celestial bodies in an unaccurate way; But let it in that way, and proceed. So now, people is discussing if use the first Bardack Episode, DB Minus, or DBS flashback?
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- #66
Bardock Episode is canon to classic Manga. DB Minus doesn't show the Namek Explosion. DBS Flashback is the most reliable for Super, and the one that wields the better speed so we're using it.
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Im goona do a calc in a bit.
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@Matt
those are pretty blatantly troops. Here is a HD version:
Even in the clip prior we see them like this:
those are pretty blatantly troops. Here is a HD version:
Even in the clip prior we see them like this:
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- #69
Okay, thanks.
But that still doesn't prove that they escaped. It's more likely that they were unable to react just like in the Bardock Special.
But that still doesn't prove that they escaped. It's more likely that they were unable to react just like in the Bardock Special.
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It does when, as I pointed out earlier, they're all gone by the time we begin to see the planet explode.
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- #71
It is far more likely that it is an inconsistent on Toei's part, then to assume that Raditz' level people can move at the speeds you are suggesting
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It would be inconsistent if we see them blitzed by a significantly slower attack. At this point, the argument they can't be on this level is done, especially when we see not one, but 2 times that they are able to move at Sub-Rel speeds, especially now that the weaker variation of Piccolo has a calc that puts him at MHS which is very consistent with the growth of speed / strength in the series.
Basically, at this point the outlier argument cannot work since they have no predetermined speeds and now have more sub-rel showings than below sub-rel showings. While I can understand where your argument stems from, it sadly no longer has any ground to stand on.
Basically, at this point the outlier argument cannot work since they have no predetermined speeds and now have more sub-rel showings than below sub-rel showings. While I can understand where your argument stems from, it sadly no longer has any ground to stand on.
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How would that be inconsistent, when other beings like piccolo who is not that far below raditz has shown beam speeds of about 7.2% light speed.
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I highly doubt a bunch of soldiers not in a scene counts as a feat.
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It does when there is context behind it @Cal.
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It means they avoided the attack (and as a result also reacted to it). If anything, this kinda backs up the moon feat and the claim that the supernova moves at a relatively sluggish pace compared to regular ki attacks.The real cal howard said:
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What context? The scene is clearly not meant to show the soldiers getting away. All we know is that there's fodder peppering the land and then they wanted to focus on the planet blowing up. It seems to be at best similar to the scene of Krillin wearing his gi on Namek while flying away.
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- #78
@Somebody
No it doesn't, SD. You are basing solely on speculation of things not shown or implied by the scene. In the previous, more detailed version of the destruction of Vegeta we see a far lesser number of soldiers, and they are engulfed by the Supernova being unable to react.
There are absolutely no Sub-Relativistic feats from Freeza's men, quite the contrary. You are simply assuming that they dodged something that the scene doesn't shown them dodging.
@TLT1
Piccolo's feat is an outlier, and stronger people failing to dodge a slower blast proves it.
No it doesn't, SD. You are basing solely on speculation of things not shown or implied by the scene. In the previous, more detailed version of the destruction of Vegeta we see a far lesser number of soldiers, and they are engulfed by the Supernova being unable to react.
There are absolutely no Sub-Relativistic feats from Freeza's men, quite the contrary. You are simply assuming that they dodged something that the scene doesn't shown them dodging.
@TLT1
Piccolo's feat is an outlier, and stronger people failing to dodge a slower blast proves it.
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I have problems with the scene itself: I've watched two shots where the distance between the ship and the planet is different, and after the planet is hitted by the Supernova everyone around it even the ship disappeared from nothing.
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@Matt do they all have instant transmission or invisibility? There is literally only one possibility here. As for the using the previous version of Vegeta's destruction, if we were to accept that over the modern one, we would also have to take the values of the destruction of that Vegeta over this one as well.
We see that they dodged because they moved off screen, you simply cannot say with a straight face that something else happened
Let me make it simplier:
We know that they were in one frame and not the next, what must have happened?
We might as well downgrade every FTE or off-screen feat since, despite knowing it must have happened, we didn't see it.
@Cal ^
We see that they dodged because they moved off screen, you simply cannot say with a straight face that something else happened
Let me make it simplier:
We know that they were in one frame and not the next, what must have happened?
We might as well downgrade every FTE or off-screen feat since, despite knowing it must have happened, we didn't see it.
@Cal ^
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