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Fate Kaleid Liner Prisma Ilya General Discussion Thread

Gemmysaur

Gemmysaur

VS Battles
Retired
6,850
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This is a thread to separate discussions regarding the verse from the Nasuverse discussio thread which I feel is heavily populated as it is and the Mirou stat check thread.

Points currently in discussion

The power of Install servants and mudied servants compared to the regular Grail servants

  • Kamiyasha brought up the point that different servant system = different servant stats
  • Reppuzan giving a link that apparently says that Install servants are a rank or two lower than Grail servants (Link here in Japanese sadly)
  • ZERO7772 brings up that using the Install card requires training but should likely give roughly the same stats as the Grail servant version
  • Methinks it's all in the compatibility. Mirou is comparatively above Archer in showing already by tracing Divine Constructs and tanking Enuma Elish but he's actually the only one portrayed that way. He mentions somewhere that he has full compatibility with the servant (which is because Archer a version of him) that EMIYA's reality marble and experience bled through to him.
 
For future reference, Beatrice's current highest feat (2nd stage thunder Mjolnir): http://2.p.mpcdn.net/350135/556827/20.jpg

Each line is at least equal or stronger than Illya's Excalibur in term of strength (claimed by Ruby and Sapphire that just one line can kill both of them even if they use their max power Barrier together). Mirou's strongest Rho Aias with the cost of his life can only disrupt the thunder for one second to save both of them before break completely. And Beatrice creates 12 lines of thunder at once, each line can easily cut through a Mountain (just like the image). Which tier should this attack deserve? I think it's at least Island level.
 
There's no way to know if each line is as trong as Excalibur or stronger since they haven't clashed each other, yet. But it's likely stronger so i'm using "at least" at the moment.

Btw, what do you guys think about... erm... Tanaka?
 
According to the link Reppuzan gave:

>Blackening spirits stain the card

>There are errors

>It is ok to think that Install card servants are generally 1 to 2 ranks below the Grail servants.

This is the most likely reason Kuro can't lift Berserker's Axesword while Mirou can casually waltz in with Nine Lives activated, killing multiple mudied servants.
 
She tanked the whole f*cking 1st stage thunder Mjolnir to the face, she one hitted Julian's Ice Cage which is capable of tanking even Kuro's Excalibur Arrow. And her right arm turned into a burning sword which allow Illya to destroy Ainsworth's cube along with the mud and all mud servant in one hit... She's kinda OP...
 
OwariNepgear said:
She tanked the whole f*cking 1st stage thunder Mjolnir to the face, she one hitted Julian's Ice Cage which is capable of tanking even Kuro's Excalibur Arrow. And her right arm turned into a burning sword which allow Illya to destroy Ainsworth's cube along with the mud and all mud servant in one hit... She's kinda OP...
Click to expand...
Her powers also make absolutely no sense.... Seriously, now that Mirou's flashback is over and we all remember that he's not the MC this time, i hope someone explains Tanaka. Once that happens, i'm okay with her having a profile.
 
OwariNepgear said:
@Gemmy: What do you mean by saying that's the reason why Kuro can't life Nine Lives?
Click to expand...
Install cards can only use a fraction of the original servant's power (read: who created the cards by extracting a part of the power of heroic spirits // Prisma Ilya drei ch11).

Furthered by the link from Reppuzan, the author saying that Install card servants are 1-2 ranks lower than the original.

So while she gains a hefty increase in strength, skill, durability and what not, she didn't get the full package, which explains why she was never shown to lift the Axesword, just push it around and use it as a shield.
 
OwariNepgear said:
Then there's no way we can tell if Magical Girl Illya or Kuro's lifting strength are superHuman
Click to expand...
From the wiki:

She has physical strength equal to that of a magical girl, allowing her to damage a wall with a towel.

Besides, even if she wasn't able to lift the Axesword, she sure as hell was able to push it without problems.
 
Lifting Strength =/= Striking Strength... Damage a wall with a towel is more likely a feat of striking strength.

Physcial Strength equal to that of a magical girl, but magical girl Illya can't lift a Nine Lives...

Also, not sure if pushing is a feat for lifting since by pushing will allow you to use your weight as an advantage. Unless there is an exactly feat, i think we should just leave their Lifting Strength as an Unknown for safety. (Though i think they're no different than a Regular Human in lifting strength)
 
I can go with that. Unknown Lifting strength.

Still, using their weight? They're lolis, their weight is near inconsequential here.

Kuro was also taking Miyu's magic attacks hitting on the Axesword without flinching as she was pushing it.
 
Everyone is OP with unlimited mana.

I mean, if Shirou had the capacity of say, Rudeus Greyrat, he'd be spamming overcharged Caliburn arrows all day for the lulz.

Saber and Shirou could camp in Avalon til the enemies wipe themselves out, come back, then Excaliblast every remaining Servant, and Shinji.

Caster gets to have a football team's worth of children and a village of grandchildren with Kuzuki, never having to bother with the grail ever.

Excalibur
Irrelevant image

But yeah, Kuro has great potential.
 
It's depend on your fighting style though , archer main strength point that he can trace NP and that require mana and out of all the servants he have the worst mana score

Kalied shirou should spam Excailbur all the day with his mana but for some reason he won't
 
Mirou doesn't have Excalibur. The source of his arsenal is Titsgamesh and Archer, the former not being shown to utilize it and the latter, not being able to trace it iirc so he doesn't have anyone to get it from.

Mirou also has mana support from Miyu in his fight against Titsgamesh at least when he used UBW while in his showing after just being released by Kidgamesh recently, his circuits were already badly damaged so he can't use UBW again. At the moment, we don't really know how much he can actually use at full health.
 
@Gemmy He does have someone to get it from, he fought Saber. I guess he just can't trace it.

I think him not being able to use UBW comes down to how badly he was wounded and how tired he was. He probably didn't get any healing after Angelica beat him, and he was being tortured iirc.
 
The Saber Mirou fought ended up using Excalibur, though. Does that mean that he was stronger than Saber or that, since Saber lost an arm, he became weaker than Mirou?
 
Saber in Fate Zero said she can't use Excaliblast when a tendon in her arm was cut by Gae Buidhe (iirc, that's the anti-regen spear right?).

Saber in Fate Kaleid (or was it Mirou himself?) said that Excalibur was meant to be used by two hands, and since he only had one, missed Mirou and looked quite weaker than the mainstream counterpart despite Proto Saber being stronger.

Regardless, Mirou can't use Proto Excaliblast as he can't satisty the condition of having an honorable duel since Angelica seems to have gained Gil's ego when she's in Titsgamesh form, and ego and honor only go along in a single sentence if the words "doesn't go along with" is written in between them.
 
Gemmysaur said:
Saber in Fate Zero said she can't use Excaliblast when a tendon in her arm was cut by Gae Buidhe (iirc, that's the anti-regen spear right?).
Click to expand...
Gáe Buidhe (wounds that cannot be healed naturally or with magic)
 
It was Mirou that said Excalibur isn't supposed to be used with one hand, and that Proto Saber was weaker than the real thing, but i was asking what fulfilled the "opponent must be stronger" requirement for Saber Proto against Mirou.

Since we're talking about Angelica, what do you think it's going to happen with her now? She just lost her main way of fighting, and Julian doesn't seem to care about what happens to her, since he basically left her to die. I wonder if she'll change sides?
 
Proto Excalibur > Original Excalibur though it have some ridiculous condition like the match must be honorable and the enemy is stronger Shirou can't trace that in a battle against Angelica he need to see the original Excalibur if he want to trace it and that is thing he didn't saw yet "or he did since he saw saber-illya ? " anyway he can just have clear look on it

and yeah Excalibur need to be used with two hands insted of one which is why shirou found his way through the attack and one shouted proto saber its the same case with zero-saber
 
Proto Excalibur > Excalibur

Proto Saber > Saber (discounting Avalon)

Mirou has the advantage over every other Install user because he was 100% in synch with his card. That translates as him being able to fight better, evident with Proto Saber missing an arm.

What allowed Install Saber to use ProtoEx, what qualified that fight to be used is probably because the guy using it was Julian's dad who only wishes to snap his son out of his madness, but can't because puppet, and Mirou was fighting to save Miyu. Based on their feelings alone, it was an honorable battle. There were no taunts, no anger, long-winded speeches, etc.

Though, looking at it again, Proto Excalibur there looked like mainstream Excalibur but whatever.
 
ZERO7772 said:
He only show it toward the end of the battle before shirou gives him broken NP in the face
Click to expand...
That short glance Mirou had on ProtoEx before sword lasers shot out is enough for him to trace it, but again, he doesn't have any opponent to use it on.
 
Gemmysaur said:
ZERO7772 said:
He only show it toward the end of the battle before shirou gives him broken NP in the face
Click to expand...
That short glance Mirou had on ProtoEx before sword lasers shot out is enough for him to trace it, but again, he doesn't have any opponent to use it on.
Click to expand...
Like i said his battle with Gil wasn't honorable by any means and he was mostly trying to buy time , though now you mention yet even tough he fought proto saber the excalibur he used was the orignal one
 
Didn't seem to be buying time to me. I mean, he was aiming to cut her in half had she not dimension haxx him.
 
It's not like he will miss a chance to kill her if he got one , from the very beginning he told her to play with him until his swords runs out he never really aimed for win because he know he is doomed anyway in case he wint or lose , it's more like lose the battle but win the war
 
NotEvenHuman said:
Since we're talking about Angelica, what do you think it's going to happen with her now? She just lost her main way of fighting, and Julian doesn't seem to care about what happens to her, since he basically left her to die. I wonder if she'll change sides?
Click to expand...
Hello darkness my old friend...
 
She'd probably be hired as a house help or something since she looks pretty useless without a Gil card.

Else, she freeloads.
 
Should we really have the burning sword on Illya's profile? That's not standard equipment for her, and was probably only a one-time thing.
 
@NotEvenHuman:

Oh yeah, space magic. But she's pretty non-responsive at the moment, so still, freeloader.

Maybe later, she'd actually get to care for Mirou and friends once she spends time with them.

Regarding burning sword, considering many other profiles who don't get a profile for non-standard equipment (Like Necro King Thor) then I'd vote for not having that burning sword as well.
 
Well, i'll remove it then. Though i'd aprecciate if someone could remove the image tab for it, since i don't know how to do it.
 
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