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BoS Fairy Tail CRT

The_Calaca

The_Calaca

VS Battles
Retired
14,575
5,877
I hope that this thread won't kill anybody from sheer stress. I really want to.

Anyway, this is pretty simple. I noticed a flaw with the original calc for the 7-C and 7-B BoS and did a small revision that has been accepted here.

The most notable changes is that the 7-C (33 Kilotons) value is now Low 7-C (1.44 Kilotons), and the previous 7-B result (13 Megatons) is now the most baseline 7-B ever (6.39 Megatons).

The reasons are explained in the blog.

Now, this doesn't represent a tier downgrade for the most part. The BoS could scale to Gray's 7.32 Kilotons feat and the 7-B should scale to baseline 7-B instead a bit above so this doesn't represent a big difference. The only exceptions are the lower 7-Cs who are currently scaled to be 1/4th the strongest 7-Cs, so they would scale to 1.83 Kilotons each.

I have problems with the method used to find the structure's height myself, and the tree that Torch used shouldn't be the chosen one. Actually, the tree on the left is much closer to Gray and it seems bigger from that point so, maybe in the future, I'll update that calc as well that might represent a slight upgrade. But that's out of the question for this discussion, just so you know that there's a possible upgrade for that feat.

So, the main point here is to see which method should be used. Of course I believe the zone were Zancrow and Natsu engaged had no trees that tall, but I'll post the scans later if needed.

I'm sorry for bothering you.
 
I'd argue this is an upgrade actually. Before, using the vape end of the bellow was an outlier since it was casually just below LFDM which obviously makes no sense. 172 kt on the other hand is not and is also consistent with a calc for the Element 4's Abyss Break (time to go find that one). Said flames also harmed Makarov with ease and would be on the same level as the extremely casual Ama 100 which also harmed Makky.
 
Honestly don't remember who did it. I do remember it was roughly around the mid/end of summer last year (damn a year has passed?) ..... I think.
 
I do kinda agree with using the vape end, cause it's fire and there appears to be steam coming off the rock, plus the main reason it was seen as pulverization before is that it would be an outlier, which is bad reasoning, but that's how it was

As for Natsu's Roar, that's completely Ok, however I do have a Laxus Lightning Calc that may be accepted, it was 14 Megatons and would scale to this Natsu, however, I know Lightning Calc revisions are going on right now, so I didn't wanna proceed with it yet

Overall this seems fine and not complicated, however someone should contact Captain Torch to get his opinion on this
 
@Calaca

I honestly don't think using 20 meter trees is wrong at all. The trees you have shown to debunk my calc actually have the same form as the tree I used, and are far in the background + drawn inconsistently cuz "background". The tree I used for scaling was:

1)The tree in the same vacinity where the Zancrow's Bellow took place

2)Had the same shape as most of the other trees

3)Was the only tree we saw up close in comparison with Natsu.

Not to mention the fact that that in this panel most of the trees have the same height, and since at least one of them had to be the 20 meter one, this implies that they all have similar height.

Using 7 meters is an uneccesary lowball.

As for Natsu's roar calculation, you have to actually show a tree of the same shape up close that is smaller than the one I used, and then you might have a point. All you've shown so far are trees in the background.

Now about Gray. I used the tree on the right because the tree on the left is a bit closer to our POV, meaning that it would inflate the calculation. Having said that, the distance between the tree on the left and Gray is minimal, so it probably is fine.
 
Thanks for the comments Captain, I'm pretty neutral about this, and I wanna see how Calaca retorts, let's keep this nice and easy

But you know, sometimes I really wish we could just go a month without a Fairy Tail CRT
 
I really have a problem with using a lower end just to not choose the outlier end. Probably some staff members should take a look at this, because we go by scientifical accuracy, not scaling accuracy.

If the calc is too high in the scientifically accurate PoV, then it's prolly to be considered outlier. We shouldn't go "oh, then the low end might be fine" to get it accepted.

I said that in the blog but that was before I knew fire feats tends to vaporize more than they tend to pulverize.

@Torch

None of those trees seems to be 20 meters tall, tbh. There are trees that high in the zone where Erza and Juvia met Meredy. Those were wide enough to provide such heights, but the rest of them, for many different zones were actually average sized.

You just need to see how the trees are drawn to get a perpective of how tall are those trees.

In fact, this image shows more or less the affected ground being nowhere near 165 meters with Zancrow standing just there. I'd use Zancrow to get the dimensions instead of a tree that we can't fully see. The same applies to Gray's feat, but I don't know how to calc that one without using tree heights.

I used trees in the background to debunk the idea that every tree is at least 20m tall, and some of them ain't really that far from the characters.

I showed that many more trees in that area are average trees, so applying that logic works the other way around since those trees are seen in that zone instead of the tallests.

>Gray

The tree I was talking about is the other one, but then I noticed that you were scaling the tree on the right corner so forget about that part.
 
@Calaca

I do admit that some panels show shorter trees, but I think it's mostly an inconsistency. If anything, it at least shouldn't affect the Zancrow calc.

Here is my reasoning:

1) About the calc itself: The crater was formed on the opposite side , meaning that a completely different mountain was destroyed. If you look closely on the panel, you'll see that the shape of the crater is different than the place where he actually used his bellow.

In the lower-right part of the panel we are actually looking FROM Zancrow's side.


2)Again, the trees:

- are drawn at an unknown distance in the background, making it impossible to really know their height

- are drawn inconsistently because of them being in the background.

Some of your panels do show smaller trees, but they are located in another side of the forest.

Besides, this doesn't change the fact that the tree from my calc is located somewhere around this place, which is where Natsu landed and had his "rematch" with Zancrow. Which means that the tree SHOULD be on the panel.

In fact, these panels that you have shown are actually the same trees I used for the calc. Their appearance/form is the exact same. We also see in the Natsu vs Zancrow rematch, that Zancrow sliced those trees and one of them fell on Natsu , which gave us a method for reliable scaling.

All of those trees had similar height for a visible distance .


You might have a point with Natsu's LFD Roar, since it is at another location of the island, however then you have to prove that there are trees massively smaller than the ones I used in the calc (Which are one of the smaller trees on the island might I add), and using trees from an unknown distance in the background doesn't count.
 
The bigger trees are shown in specific areas. Calling inconsistency to a lot of panels where most of the trees are average sized doesn't work. Unlike in Oracion Seis arc where all the trees were consistent in size, these panels show that not every tree has to be 20+ meters tall.

These trees ain't as far as the characters as you might want to believe.

You have to prove that the trees there are as wide as the one you used for the scaling. Other trees shows otherwise and assuming those trees in the background are 20+ meters tall shares the same problem.

1) There's no different mountain being destroyed. Zancrow obliterated part of the cliff and Natsu was sent flying. We see the cliff destroyed right after he got sent flying. Occams Razor, it's the same cliff, not another mountain.

2) The trees located around Natsu vs Zancrow are more similar to the biggest ones. You just need to look at them. They have ropes and the trunks seems more old than the others.

There are others trees that are average sized (the last one in the background is where Azuma spawns from).

That place doesn't show trees that tall. You assumed there are trees as tall as the ones closer to the center of the island which is hardly the case.


But the point of my calc was to prove that not every tree is that tall so assuming 20+ is a highball based on an assumption that might or might not work. Now it's up to the calc group members to decide which case should be used.

And to bring light to the fact that pulverization apparently was used to hide the outlier, which is a no no.
 
 
Thanks for the help.

I'll call some calc group members to take a look at this.

Right now the options are these:

1) We conserve the current scaling but check the chosen end and discard the calc because vaporization seems like an outlier.

2) Change the scaling and use the vaporization end.
 
Would anyone be able to tell me which chapters the feats took place? The original calc just mentions one of them happened in chapter 218.
 
Well actually the whole not using the vaporization end because it was an outlier isn't necessarily true, that's just my suspicion, the pulverization end was accepted on the calc by calc members, no real reason given as to why it was chosen above vaporization, and we just used that, however I always thought it would make more sense for vaporization, but yeah, It would be an Outlier if we still use 20 foot trees
 
I looked back and read the chapter, and those trees definitely look smaller than 20 feet, I mean they look tiny compared to the ones next to Natsu, they just look like average trees, however with Natsu's Roar, it's pretty impossible to tell, I'm more inclined to believe the trees are 20 feet when we see how they are compared to the island tho

I agree with assuming the trees for Zancrow's Bellow are normal sized trees, while for Batsu's Roar, they should be larger
 
If itd an outlier, its an outlier. Looking through it again, the only question I have is that aside from it being fire and the cloud which could be smoke or dust, what makes Zancrow vape things? Afaik, his other attacks like his scythe don't light the trees on fire or even burn the parts he cuts through. In my experience with vape feats, we tend to look for more showings than simply a cloud even for fire based attacks.
 
Pretty sure its meters since 20 feet is basically what Calaca calc'd lmao.

True but the problem with using 7m is that the trees around them either look small (7m) but are far away or next to them but enormous (20m).
 
The vaporization end should be used regardless of the scaling, yes.

There's currently a small discussion on a thread about powers that don't follow the real life physics on every showing and someone said that even then that's no reason to discard the real life physics for calcs.

If the feat was done with fire and not by sheer force, vaporization is the one to go with.

I've contacted other calc group members to ask them choose whether end is fine, so it's either 172 Kilotons or 4 Megatons, I guess.

Damage also asked for the Roar's chapter.
 
The Roar's chapter is 218

I agree with 172 Kilotons for Zancrow's Bellow and 6.3 Megatons for Natsu's Roar
 
I meant Natsu's Roar. Zancrow's is a Bellow :p

So basically, Damage is asking for the second feat.
 
The problem is that Zancrow's other feats never involve burning aside from characters saying its hot/burns and one time when Natsu buried him under a tree log. Every other time he starts swinging his flames through flammable materials, they don't catch fire.

The Bellow was 218, rest of the fight was 219.
 
@AnonymousBlank

Zancrow uses Fire, meaning Vape makes more sense than Pulverze

Cause Fire burns, melts, and vaporizes
 
Just because fire is used doesn't mean that it's vaporization. Vaporization always required further proof than just using "fire". There should be molten remains and actual smoke from the feat, which aren't seen in this feat. Pulverisation is the safer end.
 
Alright guys, first thing we need to do is decide on Tree size, and then we can decide on whether we use pulverization and vaporization

What's everyone's stance on the Tree size
 
In cases like this, I think the low end is better.

Especially since it just appears to be scaling to a random tree with no other reference for how big that particular tree is.
 
Alright, so we'll go wih Calaca's tree size, meaning that Natsu's Roar is now 6.39 Megatons

So we now need to decide whether pulverization or vaporization should be used and it's obvious that vaporization should be used, it's Fire that's comparable to Natsu's who is consistently vapeing things, and we also see steam coming off from the rock, I completely agree with vape end
 
Just beacuse is fire doesnt mean that vaporization should always be used. Anyways which roar are we talking about?
 
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