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A Reaper Battles An Angel (Dullahan vs. Sephiroth) (One Vote Remains)

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The Forgotten, Yet Destined
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It had been about an hour since the angel descended into this dungeon, in search for a legendary artifact he had head of which supposedly contained the power of the sun. The monsters within were easy to dispatch, and whatever puzzles he couldn't simply fly over, was extremely simple for him to solve. And finally, after this long trek, he had arrived in the inner sanctum of the ruins. He spotted the artifact in front of him, sitting on top of the lone pedestal, but as soon as he took a step into the room, the entire chamber darkened. When the light returned, an armored visage stood in front of him, standing in front of the pedestal. "I am the shadow, keeper of the light. If you want the sun's power, show me your own." The armored figure stated simply, drawing his blade. The angel drew his own blade, not intimidated one bit, and flew forward to meet the knight in combat.

In the blue corner, we have Dullaha from Golden Sun, and in the red corner, we have Sephiroth from Kingdom Hearts.

Dullahan Golden Sun
Sephiroth 6Ôÿà KHUX
-This is a fight to the death or incapacitation. No holds barred.
-Neither character are aware of each other beforehand, and there is no prep time.

-Neither character are allowed any outside help.

-This fight takes place in the Anemos Inner Sanctum, giving Dullahan the home-court advantage.

-Speed is equalized.

With all this being said, let the debate begin!

Dullahan: 6 (DarkDargonMedeus, XitSign, Frieza force soldier 100, Inverted Tempest, Yellowpig10, Tonygameman)

Sephiroth: 0

Inconclusive: 0

Note: If this goes well, I may end up doing a fight with the Lingering Will next.
 
What's this version of Sephy's AP? I know Dullahan's is lowballed at 1 Foe. However, he does have some pretty good hax with his debuffs and curse manipulation.
 
So, Sephiroth has the AP advantage, but Dullahan's hax should more than make up for that. He could enhance himself and debuff Sephiroth to even the odds; plus he does have a pretty broken curse manipulation and death manipulation. Power Nullification and absorption are also quite good. I'm leaning towards Dullahan to take this fight.
 
Not gonna lie, thought this was a total mismatch...then I noticed it was KH Sephy, lot more fair.

I don't know a lot about Sephiroth from KH, but going just alone on his page it looks like he's pretty nutered compared to the mainline. He's got a lead in AP and his mobility is good, but Dullahan can range him in the enclosed space, Sephy's got to really get out of there to avoid Dullahan's range and make good use of his own.

And ontop of that, all his powers and abilities seems to be just AP. Seems like he really doesn't have any tricks or useful abilities up his sleeve other than 'Hit Dullahan' and 'Hit Dullahan harder'.

Dully meanwhile can sap energy to heal himself, go for insta-kills via Soul, Death, and Curse manips, and his sealing might even cut some of Sephy's powers off. Dully's got a much better toolkit and is tough enough to stay in the fight to actually make use of them.

(Plus, Dully has 'The Computer is a Cheating Bastard' advantage. Getting a party wipe on a 2% chance...)
 
GS's power system is supposed to be spiritual/mental energy, not magic. And I think there's currently an argument about Verse equalization going on, so hello grey-areas

Heartless Angel is impressive, the description almost makes it sound like it should be some sort of durability negation too, but becaus of what I said above it's not clear if it would drain Dully's Psynergy like it does magic. And even if it does, Charon, Formina Sage, and True Collide are all 'free actions' that ignore Dully's energy levels. That means he'd still have a Soul/Death attack that can insta-kill, a decently powerful electric attack, and an absorbtion and self-healing ability (especially handy for bouncing back from Heartless Angel's description)

However, because you mentioned it...Why does Dully have Fire Manipulation? None of his abilities are Mars, and I don't recall fire being in the animations for any of those animations either. Earth and Electricity check out, Formina Sage is a lightning sword and all the Venus attacks do some sort of Earth-based damage, but I don't think any of them are fire. Did I miss one?
 
The way Heartless Angel works is he says "Descend, Heartless Angel" while gathering energy. After it's finished, the foe has all of their magic drained and is reduced to a single hit point of health. If they get hit again before healing, game over. The foe can restore their magic and health with items such as potions if they have any, it takes him about 3-4 seconds to use it (it takes him about a second longer to use it in the first game), he can't attack or move while using it, and it will be canceled if he's hit before he finishes it. However, it cannot be dodged, forcefields do not stop it (Sora can still be hit with it even if he has his guard forcefield up at the exact instant it hits in the second game), and he can teleport away/fly up into the air before using it to make him difficult to get to in time. As stated, magical attacks will not work on him, so they will do nothing to cancel the move. In Sora's case, he has to physically whack him with the Keyblade to cancel the move. This move probably wouldn't work on most immortal characters or Regenerationn users, as it would do nothing to negate their immortality or Regenerationn (though it could still drain them of all magic and possibly greatly lower their stamina, making them easy to knock out). Looking at Dullahan's profile, he could possibly restore his health if his energy siphoning ability is not magic based. However, he would have to use it immediately. Just one more hit and he's a goner. Sephiroth's Heartless Angel is much faster working than his Curse ability considering it says they die "after a certain amount of time", though Dullahan's ability to summon the Grim Reaper seems to be a one-up on Heartless Angel since it's an actual OHK. Can the Grim Reaper be dodged/attacked?
 
'Hit points' are normally a game mechanic issue, so saying that the attack reduces Dully to 'one hit point' is some sort of issue. Not 100% sure how to rectify it, but it's clearly some sort of durability bypass or negation, so we'll roll with that.

Again, Psynergy isn't magic, very possible Heartless Angel doesn't drain him, so that means Sephy is only getting about half of the effect off here. But even if he does reduce all Psynergy, Dully's Absorption is still one of the 'free actions' that doesn't require Psynergy to use, and is incredibly useful anyways, so he's very likely going to be healing himself quickly anyways.

Also, Sephy might have an issue actually making use of his flight and teleportation here to avoid Dully. I already mentioned that Sephy's range is ridiculously better than Dullihan's, but they're fighting in an enclosed space, and one pretty deep into the Sanctum. Sephy doesn't have a lot of room to get into a position where Dully can't get to him, so it's very likely Dully's going to be able to make use of the staggering cancel for the attack. Sephy probably can teleport out of the Sanctum so he's outside and can make better use of his range...but Dully's a guardian of the Iris power, in-character he's not likely to leave to give chase without being bloodlusted. So Sephy kinda has to play at a disadvantage here to end this fight.

Curse is a slow countdown, yes. It gives better accuracy in return for a slower 'OHK' (Gotta love Curse's uselessness in anything but a stalemate). Condemn is literally the opposite, the Grim Reaper attack isn't nearly as accurate and pretty much comes down to luck or catching the opponent off guard to even work, but is an instant Soul/Death Manip kill. The Grim Reaper's never been interacted with, but he HAS been dodged.

...Charon, on the other hand, has that same soul/death effect, and does it by blowing everything up in a massive black and purple energyfield. THAT one hasn't missed so far in the franchise. Honestly I don't know why anyone ever bothers with Condemn, it's possibly the worst OHK move in the series, and almost every character has better ones.
 
Sephiroth could win if he managed to get off Heartless Angel and than attack Dullahan before he could syphon energy from him to heal himself. However, Dullahan has his own hax as you said. The countdown Curse sounds like it isn't much of a threat to Sephiroth. The Grim Reaper could be avoided due to teleportation. The biggest threat is Charon, an un-dodgable OHK. How hard is it to get Charon off? How much synergy does it use and what's the rough amount of time it takes to get off?
 
Not really hard.

I joked about Dullahan's CPU being a 'cheating bastard' above, but it really is a nightmare for players. Dully gets to use Charon as a 'free action'. It's technically a player summon that's been added to his tool kit, so almost all rules are off with him. He doesn't need to use Psynergy or Djinn to summon it, he either teleports away or becomes intangiable to avoid the hit (the animation never makes it clear, but summon users 'vanish' so they don't get caught in thier own blast, the jist of it is GS characters can't friendly-fire themselves), and all he really has to do is raise a hand and the attack happens like most other specials in the game.

Sephiroth's Heartless Angel's ability IS impressive, but since Dully has a chance to heal it off and the battle positions make it likely he could abuse Sephiroth's stagger, I just don't think it has the same threat as Dully calling Charon to make a gigantic 'death wave' attack. Sephy doesn't resist soul/death manips (or earth, since it IS a Venus attack) and looking over his list of powers he doesn't seem to have many answers to get around that disadvantage either. Add in a battlefield disadvantage, and Dully having a handful of other options to mess with Sephy or even possibly landing OTHER less likely OHKs, and Dully has better options to take this more often than not.
 
Yeah, and one of my friends considers Dark Dawn Dullahan to be the hardest boss in video game history. It's quite a claim, but I can agree he's damn hard. But at least he's optional, unlike Galdera.
 
Dark Dawn Dully got a few new extra tricks, didn't he? Like stealing Summons from the player characters before they could use them. Ontop of how bad the original Dully is, I can understand him getting frustrated with it.

Though, while you're here, Medeus, do you know where Dully's Fire Manipulation comes from? It's only vaugely relevant to this fight, but I'm struggling to find any time Dully uses a Mars attack or fire.
 
Not sure I remember; I think it might have been Glassman who made the profile.
 
Well, GS profiles have been overdue for some little bits of cleanup. I'll spend some time on the wiki, maybe make a CRT for later.
 
Time to 180 because the new Conceptual Manipulation and Abstract Existance revisions kinda ruin this fight, don't they?

Sephy's AE means Dully can't take him down, right?
 
Weren't those being contested by staff and agreed to have those removed?
 
Were they? I had no idea, I thought they were approved all around.

I may need to double check the thread now...
 
I'm skipping to the bottom just to catch up with the latest posts. But I see.

Though, it seems like Abstract Existance is staying? And it's a Type 2. Which that in mind, Death and Soul haxes can't win this, right? Or am I misunderstanding the abstract in this situation?

Because if those don't work, Dully can't really incap or kill.
 
Not sure yet, but I know people are saying 3-A and conceptual manipulation were iffy.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Not sure yet, but I know people are saying 3-A and conceptual manipulation were iffy.
Click to expand...
You are exaggerating, literally only Matt said that there only once with no elaboration (regarding the former, also, I don´t know why you bring that up, Seph didn´t scale to it due to not doing anything relevant in III), while in the latter, it´s still being discussed.

Anyways, Seph never had conceptual hax even after the revisions due to not having any feats related to heartless/nobodies, so the current revisions really don´t affect him here either way.
 
We weren't on the Conceptual Manipulation. I shouldn't have mentioned it, I called the revision 'Conceptual Maniuplation and Abstract Existance' to refer to the changes going on.

But Abstract Existance is the one that was more relavant here. I'm questioning if Dully even has win options now since I am unclear on the nature of the aspects in KH. And if so if I should change my vote.
 
Oh no, Abstract Existence never was combat applicable, no one in KH can make another body if it´s destroyed, only move to another host, which would still lead to an incap here in worst-case scenario.
 
Both Cal and DragonMaster said something about agreeing with Matt though. But anyway, it doesn't effect Sephy, so this match is still game.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Both Cal and DragonMaster said something about agreeing with Matt though. But anyway, it doesn't effect Sephy, so this match is still game.
Click to expand...
Only on the latter last time I checked, but yeah, neither affect the match anyways.
 
Okay, thank you so much for making it clear if it was Combat Applicable, I was clueless on where to go from here.

With that in mind I guess I don't change my vote, since nothing has changed.
 
Dullahan leads with Djinn Storm, which is going to immediately Power Null everything Sephiroth can do. Sephiroth has an AP advantage but it's not really going to help him out here because he's not going to be able to one shot or anything like that. Unless Sephiroth has some sort of thought-based or instakill lead, Dullahan is going to proceed to land any of his instakill options and continue with statistical effects.
 
Bump on the new forum, especially since there's only one vote left before it's finished.
 
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