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Steve's Type 9 Immortality

The_Wright_Way

The_Wright_Way

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Currently, on the Player's profile it says (Type 9, Death is but an inconvenience to them and they can reappear as long as their true selves exist). This is outdated. The true self in question was referenced to Steve's 2-C form, which no longer exists. As such, his "Immortality" can be taken for nothing more than a gameplay mechanic. Even if it does stay, the typing should be changed. Type 9 requires the user have a higher dimensional form to bring them back, which Steve no longer has.
 
Nah

"The Player" is taken as you, some asshole playing the computer which exists outside of the "Minecraft world" as we know it. The End Poem still states that death is meaningless towards Steve. It's not a gameplay mechanic.
 
If we take "the asshole playing the computer" as canon, then Steve would still have a 2-C form. He either has a 2-C form or he doesn't have type 9. Pick one.
 
Or

We can take option 3 and say that you, the Player isn't a 2-C being but an entity that exists outside of the Minecraft world that treats Steve as an avatar of sorts.
 
Then the Player should have a key on Steve's profile, which he doesn't. If Steve is his avatar, then the Player should have a key on his profile.
 
We know that the Player in his current lore as we accept it is just you, which exists outside of the Minecraft world.

It doesn't exactly have feats or anything that'll warrant a new key.
 
"Sometimes the player dreamed it was a miner, on the surface of a world that was flat, and infinite. The sun was a square of white. The days were short; there was much to do; and death was a temporary inconvenience."

As we're accepting it now, Dream is the equivalent of the Player playing a game.

The "miner" is obviously Steve.

And death being a temporary inconvenience obviously refers to the respawn feature.

Due to the Player playing a game as Steve, Steve's immortal due to the fact that the Player which is using Steve as an avatar can constantly just revive Steve with that neat respawn function.
 
The Player viewing the Minecraft world as a dream is a quantifiable feat that warrants him having his own key then.
 
Not really

The true self is the one recreating the avatar over and over again, not some form of resurrection

I'm personally neutral on whether the Player re-exists again but some form of resurrection or immortality is legit for Steve due to the fact the End Poem states that death is absolutely meaningless to him.
 
It seems like the true form key should probably be reinserted. Or just remove almost every Player profile, but the former seems like a better and easier solution.
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
However, The Player (Doki Doki Literature Club!) and The Player (Imscared) also directly reference the Real World Player, so I feel that's a bit of a double standard.
Click to expand...
Those are actual beings within the game, that just reflect the player himself, which can actually "fight" against other characters, like Monika and White Face.

The reason as of why Steve lost his 2-C key is because the Entities were agreed to be referring to the actual guy playing Minecraft.
 
I don't think that's true for the DDLC Player at least. Monika at multiple times refers to you as the actual guy playing DDLC, and a good majority of his abilities are only something they can do if they were a player sitting outside the game (Higher-D Existence, resistance to plot manipulation, large size type 9). The Player isn't a being within the game sans the avatar.

Even then, the Minecraft Player can still 'fight' other entities within the game with things such as law manip.
 
Azzy was the main opponent against tier 2 minecraft player but he's in a deep slumber for 30k years, if you want this to go through you'd need the support of other Minecraft supporters (like Gyro and Saikou)
 
I wasn't there for the removal but yeah it should come back, especially if we still use it for Type 9 and scaling for the Entities.

Also both the DDLC player and other similar "Player" entities like Imscared's are definitively "just" the guy behind the screen, it doesn't mean that they don't have any relevent feats within the verse. If they're include within the normal verse's story and setting, they can work.
 
I agree with the Player key coming back.

Would the console commands count towards the players law manip? Because if they do then the weakness of losing items upon death is made useless by keepinventory.
 
Well the player's old law manip wasn't via the command anyway, it was via the difficulty, which is canon weirdly enough.
 
Gonna point out that I disagree heavily, if not from my own dissent to the End Poem referring to a real and actual entity in the game and not just a sort of sideways 4th wall break from the devs to address you, then from the ease that it can be portrayed in multiple ways. A feat that subjective is bad juju.
 
Except for the fact that the Entities are clearly a thing. And that they're clearly fictional supernatural beings and stuff, showing that the Poem is still part of the fictional world of the game (even if not directly in the game) and not just fancy words told to the player.
 
Yes. And the fact that 4th wall awareness is also a thing.
 
The fact that it involves 4th wall stuff doesn't mean we should just stubboringly ignore everything related to the fourth wall. The way the Entities describe themselves make it clear that the player and everything around them, even on a physical level, is still ecompassed by them. It's not just a quick 4th wall break from characters limited in a game, the "real world" is part of the verse's cosmology due to them ecompassing it.
 
Yeah, there's a pretty clear difference between the "the audience" as addressed by Deadpool and the Player addressed by The Entities. Namely, the Player exists as more than a quick joke.
 
We genuinely can't accept the Entities as any kind of character here without acknowledging the "real world". They're defined as being the universe the player exists in. Not "the player" as in the playable character inside the game, but the player as in the one controlling the character.
 
1. I disagree. The entities when experienced outside of VSBW's context were always a thing I took to be a meta nod towards the player for "finishing" the game. Not that they were gods of the real world. So yes, just fancy words told to the player. The entities themselves are absolutely in the game.

2. "a quick joke". I never said it was, nor is that a viable measure as to what is needed to conclusively say "this is absolutely them mentioning the Player as a literal god, my heavens". It's a message that pops up after you complete the final objective in the game addressing you as a person playing the game. Anything other than that is personal interpretation.

3. I agree. But that doesn't mean we have to automatically slap Tier 2 ratings on our real world selves playing a game because the game acknowledged we were playing. The same logic can be applied to us playing, as Wright mentioned, the Deadpool game. Hey, it mentions us, the player, right? Ergo, Deadpool is Tier 2, laugh laugh.

TL;DR slapping a tier on a 4th wall break is dumb, thank you for your time.
 
1. It doesn't matter if they're intended to just be nods at the player, the game explicitly introduces them as god-like beings beyond the game. Literally one of their first line is saying how they're not part of the normal game world.

"That doesn't matter. It thinks we are part of the game."

"Who are we? Once we were called the spirit of the mountain. Father sun, mother moon. Ancestral spirits, animal spirits. Jinn. Ghosts. The green man. Then gods, demons. Angels. Poltergeists. Aliens, extraterrestrials. Leptons, quarks. The words change. We do not change."

I don't know how you could interpret this as just being characters in the game that somehow still claims they're beyond it.

2. The player is painted as this almighty creature compared to the game. What's up to interpretation is whether or not this is metaphorical and just refers to the fourth wall or literal. And we have more reasons to believe the latter. Plus as I've said, the intent behind the events of the Poem doesn't matter. It still happened.

3. You're still using a faulty comparaison. A quick joke isn't the same as several characters being a large part of the game's cosmology. This is even more the case when said fourth wall element actually affects the main story. And it does here. We have the respawn process sure, but other sources such as the Mobestiary treat stuff like Difficulty Settings, many worlds, glitches and even version differences as canon. Again, it's not comparable to a game just going "we're just video game characters!!!". It's a lot closer to DDLC or Imscared than to that.

Tough shit, we give tiers based on fourth wall break all the time if they're important to the story or lore. If it's shown to be more than just a quick joke/reference, we have no reason to inherently ignore it.
 
1. As the real world player. Unlike examples like the character in DDLC or Magic Circle or Neverwinter or any other player profile, it is just a person in real life. Their entity in the game is accounted for, but creating a profile for the literal real life person because "well they acknowledged them" seems mighty sus.

The Entities aren't what I'm referring to. I'm fine with them existing. They are (forgive the terminology) an entity within the game, unlike the player.

2. I have reasons to believe the former. Hence my distrust in letting "lol they acknowledge me now I get a page" slide.

3. I'm not the one who made the "quick joke" comparison. That was Wright. This was in response to him.

If Minecraft is getting upgraded again, sign me off as against and I'll leave you lot to it since everyone seems content to let it slide. I'll just wait til the next bit of the cycle when somebody points to it again asking "the hell is this" and we inevitably downgrade. Good luck and such.
 
We have 4-5 people which agree and 1 disagree and one who I don't really know.
 
The player may not have any feats on screen, but considering that practically the entire poem is referring to the player, I think it's fair to say that it exists as something in the game.
 
@Keeweed

You

Quiet, little one

Threads aren't decided by staff wholly. A user who constructs a good argument will come out on top. Hell, Udlmaster has stalled up the staff many times by just arguing to the death (if you're into that sort of thing).

@BigSmoke

That isn't evidence. Again, that's literally just taking 4th Wall Awareness and making a character page out of it.
 
I'm just gonna remove posts that aren't directly related to the OP. Okay? Okay.
 
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