Kama's stats and skills/Big Fate 3-A to Low 2-C Revision

I did the research and here's what I got.

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Energy Manipulation, Weapon Mastery and Telekinesis (Master at using spear and bow and arrow and able to telekintetically move her weapons), Flight, BFR (Sent almost the entirety of Chaldea using Rayshift), Reality Warping (Turned Tokugawa Castle's depths into a maze), Memory Manipulation Capable of wiping memories), Spatial Manipulation (Capable of warping space within the maze), Physics Manipulation and Law Manipulation (The maze has different theories and rules compared to normal world), Life and Death Manipulation (Can choose those who fell into her hands if they die or not), Creation (Can create dolls), Transmutation (Turned everyone in the castle and in Chaldea to part of her maze), Teleportation (Can teleport to different places instantly), Body Puppetry (Can take other people's body functions), Mind Manipulation (Can intervene with others' minds. With Nega Desire, her existence alone can make people fall into their desire), Resistance Negation (By just letting them know her existence they'll slowly become more dangered with being mindhaxed), Age Manipulation (Can age herself up), Duplication (Can create duplicates of herself), Soul Manipulation (Possibly on a conceptual level as she used concept of Tokugawa to collect the souls of their clan, past, present and future), Time Manipulation (Parvati stated that Kama can mess with the timestream), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3; Created concept of her maze), Non-Corporeal and Nonexistent Physiology (Type 1) (She doesn't have physical body and Shiva already erased her down to conceptual level, Kama also called herself a void), Reactive Evolution (Gained a possibility that she is the universe by being burned with the power to burn away the universe), Abstract Existence (Possibly Type 2; Connected to the concept of the universe), Gravity Manipulation (Can manipulate gravity at will), Information Analysis (Can see what they truly are by letting them enter her universe), Sealing (Has a room dedicated to seal), Matter Manipulation (Capable of melting others. Capable of creating oxygen on conceptual level), Fire Manipulation and Possible Conceptual Erasure (Can shoot fire and covered in fire that she uses which is the same fire that Shiva used to burn her away. Capable of burning the entire universe with her fire), Illusion Creation (Can create illusions), Possible Acausality (Type 3; Has infinite selves, though there's only one "brain" in them, they are no duplicates or multiplications, and they are only "one" being), Technology Manipulation (Communications were jamming because of her love), Body Control (Capable of cutting connection of others from herself), Resurrection and Possession (Resurrected and possessed Sakura), Absorption (Should be able to absorb others, as she tried to absorb her counterpart, Beast III/R, and able to absorb souls), Immortality (Type 2 and possibly 8; Was fine being erased from existence on conceptual level. Connected to the concept of the universe), Adaptation and Shapeshifting (She hah many appearances and has absolutely adaptive selves using Myriad Desire-Accepting Constitution), Supernatural Luck and Limited Fate Manipulation (Servants with B-rank Luck or higher can change their own fates to evade inevitable outcomes such as having their hearts destroyed by Gáe Bolg), Regenerationn (Mid-Low; All servants have basic regenerative capabilities), Size Manipulation (As seen with her Noble Phantasm), Intangibility and Invisibility in spirit form, Immunity to Modern Weapons (Servants are Divine Mysteries that cannot be harmed by modern weapons such as guns, knives, or bombs unless they are infused with a supernatural aspect such as magical energy or possess a certain amount of age), Resistance to Magic (Including effects such as Petrification, Mind Manipulation, and Spatial Manipulation), Conceptual Manipulation and Existence Erasure (Due to being already erased at conceptual level)

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

Class Skills
Authority of the Beast: Assassin Kama doesn't possess this skill. …… Or alternatively, she hides it in her other face as Mara. The effect of this ability for Kama is currently unknown.

Myriad Desire-Accepting Constitution: Before, she had extremely diverse appearances and skills to answer many people's desires across earth. With nature of universe adding in, the skill become sublimed, taking form. To make everyone in the universe fall into her desire, she has proposition to have "absolutely adaptive selves" that is also customizable, as many as space dusts across space. To be more simplistic, it is a skill that grants her ability to have infinite selves across the universe.

Nega Desire: An absolute and ultimate skill held by a beast of lust. Any kind of existence, as long as it has desires will ultimately fall into their desires. To grant every desire and lust existing in the universe, one must erase the concept of desire from the universe as a whole.

These are my translations for Kama's skills. She isn't made because her skills are unknown so I tried to translate it. I want to make Kama myself but if I can't for some reason then use these for skills.

3-A/Low 2-C Upgrade
Kama is stated to be the universe itself multiple times. Here's more. And More. Confirmed in the profiles as well.

She is also able to burn the entire universe. It is stated multiple times. Confirmed by the profile as well. Also her NP does that too.

With this much statements, it's safe to say that it's no hyperbole. It's also confirmed by visuals, it's an universe.

No humanity isn't universe here. She fills the universe with love to humanity. She said it because it's the same thing.

One can also argue about size of the universe. Which I argue is the same as ours. She got the universe from Shiva's attack, which can burn away Fate universe. We know this because I don't know, is Hindu universe different than normal? No, right?

But maybe some cynical person might say that this doesn't scale to anyone. Only her, not anyone else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. Absolutely not. Kiara, who had fragment of power of the Beast, had tanked bloodlusted attacks from her multiple times. Not to mention she got full power of the universe when she became Beast III and polar opposite of one another. She should scale. If not scale her AP straight up you can just scale her from Hakuno's servants who can hurt her.

For someone who'll say that it may be outlier, I suggest it's not. I'm pretty sure there's BB's statement that she'll destroy the universe, with the game straight up saying that it's not figure of speech or hyperbole. Saver is also said to be "God at universal scale". They are both considered outliers but with this feat backing it up, I don't think it's outlier anymore.

This scales to 5-As, 4-Bs and even some 5-Bs. So this will be kinda big.

My suggested tier will be 3-A to Low 2-C.

The one who scales: Kiara, BB, CCC servants, Saver, Tiamat, Goetia, Vasavi Shakti and K&K, Solomon, Sefar, Alter Egos, Enkidu, Quetzalcoatl.

Only scales with possibly: Zelretch, Types, Arcueid, ORT, Crimson Moon

This seems pretty sound to me

I'm bit iffy with this, not only Kama info is still unclear, this statement need to be more clearer in the POV of buddhism iirc.

But then again Gin is native japanese so i slighty conviced, aside that i'm neutral now.

Also for reminder to not get fall into drama or chaotic mess

It's forgetting to take note of this:

Whereas she states that she has become identified to the Universe itself, she subsequently pronounces Universe as Õà¿õ║║Úí× (zenjinrui, "all of humanity").

As well as ignoring the fact that Servant Yagyuu was forcing her out of her Bounded Field as well as overpowering her, along with Lady Kasuga/Parvati, both of whom have no 3-A showings.

It's in the argument above. No she's not doing except once and she says the universe all together for the rest. And that's when she's basically blackmailing Gudao.

That's because she was severely weakened because she severely lost her connection with Tokugawa and Katsuga who forced her out of her own universe. And she took conceptual magic in the face.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FGOGuide/c...d472ccb5bc&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=b92li2

If the universe (mankind) could be filled with her love, the unpleasant and annoying love of people wouldn't exist, after all.

Interesting how the profile focuses more on giving love to people over busting universes.

Yeah? Because that's what she does. And it's written that she can also burn the universe in later parts. That only focuses on profile 1. Focus on profile 6 instead.

ShiroyashaGinSan said:

Yeah? Because that's what she does. And it's written that she can also burn the universe in later parts. That only focuses on profile 1. Focus on profile 6 instead.

Click to expand...

Profile 6 is what equates universe to humanity.

"This is a Beast that will love the humanity with love that burns the universe (with an arrow)."

???

Which is contextualized by the preceding line. As well as unsupported by any actual feats so it's difficult to take this seriously.

More like preceded paragraph that'll not precede to anything. Can you speak or read Japanese at all? Because I'm currently in senior high school right now and I'm pretty sure even elementary will know it.

Dude, there's 3 different statements + NP behind it. You can take take this seriously.

This should be aight

It looks fine paper for now but I am a bit iffy on the scaling. Goetia was stated to be higher dimensional although Nasu doesn't use dimensions the way we do

Well that can be said to other works as well. Though I wanna know why are you guys are iffy. I'm going to list the ones who will be affected.

I am inclined to believe Shiro over Regis.

This looks good.

The ones who will be affected:

• Gilgamesh (Fate Series)
• Arcueid Brunestud
• Playable Caster (Tamamo-no-Mae)
• Playable Archer (No Name)
• Playable Saber (Nero)
• Saver
• BB (Fate/Extra CCC)
• Meltlilith
• Passionlip
• ORT
• Type Jupiter
• Goetia
• Tiamat (Fate)
• Lancer of Red (Karna)
• Enkidu (Fate)
• Slash Emperor
• Type Satur
• Type Venus
• Kischur Zelretch Schweinorg
• Crimson Moo

Though I may be missed some people.

ShiroyashaGinSan said:

Well that can be said to other works as well. Though I wanna know why are you guys are iffy. I'm going to list the ones who will be affected.

Click to expand...

Mainly that Kiara overtly states that she is not a bruteforce fighter, and thay Goetia surpasses her in raw destruction. That being said, this may admittedly be a knee jerk reaction on my part. How would Tiamat scale to this? If i recal she is stated to have a 4th dimensional inside or something

This is 3-A to Low 2-C upgrade. This may be a supporting feat to Low 2-C part.

ShiroyashaGinSan said:

The ones who will be affected:

Click to expand...

....That's a lot. Im not sure if you should scale the TYPES. Because we only have statements for them. Or just add possibly because of statements.

For the list you gave, the types aren't an issue since they are literally just raw scaling to the top of the verse. Saver is also mostly raw scaling and statements that support either position so no issue on his part. I don't know how to deal with the servants. I guess we could get a possibly for the higher end stuff tacked on the end of their NP

Iapitus The Impaler said:

For the list you gave, the types aren't an issue since they are literally just raw scaling to the top of the verse.

Click to expand...

Well if that's how it is then okay.

@John It has been repeatedly established that the types are at the top of the nasuverse cosmology save for the elder gods and Akasha. It isn't really an issue to scale them at all since that is basically all they have

Edit: Ninja'd

They are 4-Bs scaling from Kiara after all. Though if people don't want to scale them, they'll lose 4-B instead. Though I want to scale ORT, because it stated to he the strongest Type.

@Iapetus

Tiamat's mud is made of imaginary numbers which means she has infinite volume and unquantifiable weight which makes her a 4D pocket

IMO to fill the universe with love is nothing but flowery language which shouldn't be used at all forher

That's not the feat at all. It's her being THE universe and capable of burning are the feats.

The whole thing is kind of iffy since using the word 'universe' in fate and claiming that it refers to an actual physical universe without context is somewhat misleading. The usage of the word 'universe' rarely refers to an actual universe nowadays unless maybe when it was still a time where mahoyo was recently released lol. The usage of the word has mostly always been metaphorical in nature within the context of Fate. "universe" or more completely "universe of awareness" ( Þ¬ìÞ¡ÿÕ«çÕ«Ö ) is just a domain of existence governed by the human order whose scale goes up to human's perception at the time, which as far as i recall only goes up to solar system scale. And the parallel/adjacent possibilities refer to a configurations of the solar system with a biar towards human's history, and that thing too has a hard cap on its number of possible parallel realities lest the solar system would just perish

Twas stated that kama/mara's actual authority focuses on worldly desire and the corruptions of it. Kama/mara is also everywhere within the 'univeres' that is within her/his own body which in this context just sounds like a Reality marble

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Following that we have the word 'universe' being used again under particular context. It was referring to the humanity in fate, and her goal of satiating the 'universe' with love is in a way a figurative way to satiate humanity with love. Kinda dont have something to do with an actual physical universe too. In the text itself they even bother to put in the context that it's referring to humanity in a parenthesis to amke it clear to the reader too

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The hype on universal scale things on fate right now is mainly due to this thing. Even if you somehow take the word into its most literal sense, it'd just mean the scale of a solar system under the context of fate. And even then it's kind of contradicted with the fact that shiva already incinerate the universe once hence why Kama as a god and pseudo-servant have his "formless/without body" power, and the continent where India reside is still fine and dandy even now lol after Shiva burned the universe

Okay, why do you use his completely unrelated skill to her actual feat as counterargument? And no, that's definitely universe in the way we use, you saw the universe she created, didn't you? No, Shiva didn't incinerated the universe. Shiva incinerated her with the power to incinerate the universe.

Add on the fact that there is no explicit 3-A feats by anyone else, let alone Kama, whose statements have alternate meanings, makes this upgrade very unlikely. Add on the proposed upgrades to characters with zero other universal feats and this very much feels like some people willingly taking things out of context.

And that's not even the "main" statement at all. And that's not the sentence where the Nonexistent Physiology comes from. Goddamit.

The same universe that got turned back into a single room of Great Interior just because some old dude sliced her with a sword. It might be expressed visually as some sort of outer space but it was just the room of Great Interior which isn't bigger than tokyo dome even, it just got painted over by her authority

@Regis I hate to burst your bubble, but one of the Alter Egos is undoubtably potentially universal

Only stated in an old mats though, and that's something along the lines of "she can reach that level" not that she definitely is. And the case in particular never got any relevant feat since the cahracter in question never even got into the game. In a media where she actually appears, she never even grow to be that big. And it's fundamentally gimped by her sister anyway so it cannot actually reach that point

She uses universe as humanity when she is trying to love the universe. She uses universe as universe when she says anything else. Like I don't know, burning it.

No, it's not just because old dude cut her. Katsuga turned the universe to the same maze as it was because even if it is the "universe", it is still the "maze". And with her being the head, she has right to return it back to normal.

Iapitus The Impaler said:

@Regis I hate to burst your bubble, but one of the Alter Egos is undoubtably potentially universal

Click to expand...

Doubt that, since Servants can never reach that height.

Kingprotea overtly can reach that height tho

There is also type Jupiter with the similar ability to expand infinitely

Hell, Kama's universe is said to be infinite at one time. It's just that High 3-A is getting kicked out.