Son Goku vs Laharl Krichevskoy

Behold, an ancient rivalry!! Now that both are 3-A and have acquired more powers and feats and stuff, do you think we're able to settle this? I say go for it, ya crazy kids.
Both are at full power and in character, with all standard equipment available and such. The battle will start whereever this is, it looks cool and that's good enough for me, at an initial distance of 10 kilometers. Who shall emerge triumphant, the Saiya or the Overlord? Stating your reasoning is much appreciated.

Well, from the stats shown, we do know that Laharl moves at least trillions, if not quadrillions times the speed of light. This is way faster than what Goku is able to do atm.

Here are Laharl's advantages:

• https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/xVbTBq.gif (can do something like this)
• Various elemental abilities such as fire, ice, star
• Dimension slash probably ignores durability
• Overlord Dimension being way above what Goku has faced or has dealt with.

Laharl has too many crazy abilities as well as a massive speed advantage that makes Goku's life hell for the most part. Goku's Kaioken x10 brings him up to Universe level, but who knows how long that lasts?

Yeah. Laharl is way faster, and the hints that Starf showed seemed to tip the battle more in the favor of Laharl.

Laharl. He's much faster.

Isn't Laharl's weakness nice words?How weak do they make him?

This can only end in one way.

• They fight for a while*

Goku - "Phew, You are very good for being a kid, you know? I'm impressed!"

Laharl - "Wh-what? Are we not enemies?" (Nice words weakness)

Goku - "Not at all, buddy! I would be honoured to train with you after this. You are quite impresive!"

Laharl - "Wh-whatever..."

Goku - "Now...Let's go!"

• Goku goes in and one punches Weakened Laharl*

Yeah, if he didn't outgrow that weakness when he became 3A and someone with the intent to kill wouldn't say those kinds of things.

It doesn't really weaken him all that much anymore, at least not compared to how it used to be. It was more noticeable: as in, an actual in-game, blanket reduction to all stats in the canon storyline proper: in the first game.

...I wonder how Goku would react if he found the weakness out?

Chances are, he wouldn't actually use that, he likes to have good fights and defeating his enemy with kind words and trickery wouldn't be right for him.

Lawd Obito said:

Chances are, he wouldn't actually use that, he likes to have good fights and defeating his enemy with kind words and trickery wouldn't be right for him.

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Well he did use Botamo's weight against him and used the fact that Frieza didn't know how to sense power levels against him and both those cases were against some who out classed him in some regard.

Botamo=Durability

Frieza=Everything

At the very minimum Goku will keep complimenting him not even knowing it's his weakness to begin with

^That's basically what I was thinking. Prideful though he may be, it seems extremely OOC fro Laharl to A: tell Goku his weakness in the first place, and B: to subsequently ask him to please not use it against him. If anything, Laharl would be prideful enough to just keep on trucking regardless of the weakening, maybe buff up his ATK stat or something to compensate, I dunno. That seems more of a Flonne thing to do.

Point being, I'd say it's something Goku might full well do entirely on accident.

RadicalMrR said:

Lawd Obito said:

Chances are, he wouldn't actually use that, he likes to have good fights and defeating his enemy with kind words and trickery wouldn't be right for him.

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Well he did use Botamo's weight against him and used the fact that Frieza didn't know how to sense power levels against him and both those cases were against some who out classed him in some regard.
Botamo=Durability

Frieza=Everything

At the very minimum Goku will keep complimenting him not even knowing it's his weakness to begin with

Click to expand...

Point taken.

I'll give it to Laharl for his speed and hax, I think he could probably win before Goku starts complimenting him, and unless Laharl was really trying to kill Goku's friends or destroy the world I don't see Goku using a cheap trick against him. Personally with such a big speed and hax gap I think something like Laharl vs universe 7 would be more fair, but I may just be underestimating them.

If people think it's that big of a problem, I could add a second round with speed equalized. Should I?

It really wouldn't change much, Laharl still has too much hax for Goku regardless imo, and like it was stated earlier, nice words aren't much of a weakness anymore.

ThePerpetual said:

If people think it's that big of a problem, I could add a second round with speed equalized. Should I?

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Probably since I think in another thread Howard was making it a big point about putting characters on the same tier with massive speed differences

Hmm... So we're going full powered, unrestrained Goku? Well, let us get into it... Okay, so Goku's Super Saiyan God form in Super ended up showing us a lot of things about what it can be capable of, as well as its ability with God Ki, so let's start off. Here's just a reminder, for those who think Goku isn't that fast, Raditz combat speed was around the speed of light, and Raditz isn't even worthy enough to be a tick in unrestrained Goku's hair. Just keep that in mind.

Goku, as a Super Saiyan God alone with no training has multiple feats, such as his new strength. Him being boosted up to where three of his punches could send the entire universe into darkness. He'd have to hit something that could withstand the blow without becoming splattered pudding, and reading the opponent's stats, I could see he could take a hit. And in the God Form, Goku can breathe in space... But not underwater... Feel free to make your own theories about that. Also to be mentioned is how the God Ki works, there are still many mysteries about it, but here's what we do know. First off, its heightened defense against non-God Ki users, making it basically so whatever damage does get through, the damage is a lot less pain inducing than if another God-Ki user were to use it. Second off, Regenerationn/immortality. Pesky gods, always showing their aura off like it's some rave, so he won't really feel my punch, so what? Well I'll tell you so what, because combined with it is temporary immortality and of course Regenerationn, in the God Form, Goku cannot be killed by a non-God Ki user. (Forget the Revival of F movie where he got show with the lazer, they retconned that part in Super so he was in his base form instead of God Form.) However, if he is worn down, or the being has abilities purposefully made to knock God Ki away from temporary gods, such as Hit. The Regenerationn will only kick in when he's in a death-like state. This ki is an unsensable kind unless you have God Ki yourself, with the combination of learning how to sense it. The God Ki can also be used to power up your attacks, putting them far higher than what they'd normally be, when the attacks are 100% infused, they can go though any other energy attack not infused with the God Ki as well. And a cool little trick God Ki does have is it can be used almost as if it were alive itself, this is evident in Goku and Beerus's battle when Goku create a large red dragon made out of ki, it can either be used for combat, or to help increase your power, or both. This form has an extreme amount of power, so why don't we move on with the Saga's? Onto Revival of F saga!

After a few years of training with Whis, Goku's base form is now referred to as the Saiyan Beyond god form. Why? It's strength is the same as the Saiyan God strength was when he first transformed. So that three punches universe thing, yeah, now it's apart of his base form. But that's not what important, what's important are the newly discovered forms. First, we'll start with the Super Saiyan Beyond god form, which is basically going Super Saiyan. Everything is now 50x from what it was before. Yay, extreme power boost. But... Let's go even further beyond. Goku has mastered the god form at this point, so... Just for the hell of it, he combines it with his Super Saiyan form, creating the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, easily referred to as the Super Saiyan Blue. It retains all the god abilities from before, and because Goku has much better control of the power, he can condense his attacks so that they don't destroy everything, but the opponent will feel the full force. So, with all this, just how strong is this form? We have no clue. Turning into a normal Super Saiyan is 50x the old God Form, and turning Super Saiyan Blue makes him powerful enough to knock out that Super Saiyan in one punch, so... Go do what you want with that.

And now for the most powerful of Goku. So remember everything from the Revival of F saga? Okay, now times it by 1.5 and that's what he is now. Plus his God Form keeps all the abilities. So he's a bit stronger, so what's really different? What's different is after seeing the Earth destroyed in front of him because it was his fault, he decided whenever he can finish an opponent or exploit their weakness, he'll take it. Especially if it's a fight he think he can't win, or a fight to the death. This is shown in his fight with Botama, his reaction to Vegeta's fight with Magetta, and his fight with Hit. Any opportunity he'll get to win, he'll take. However... There's an exception, like the Universe 6 ending, but those rules don't apply in this kind of fight. Okay, so Goku got a bit stronger, what's so new about that? Well, Goku has a new/old technique. The Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken. The Blue form has much better ki control, and because of that, there are new rules to it, Goku can raise the Kaioken as high as he wants, honestly as high as he wants. However, he has a 10% chance of dying trying to reach whatever level he wants, but he does get a few seconds to check if it's yay or nay. So if it seems like it'll fail, he could just cancel it out and try again. And the other consequence is you have a time limit of being in that Kaioken stage for about 15 minutes, when it runs out, you've pretty much loss. In a Kaioken X10, his traveling speed was fast enough to break through time itself, becoming faster than his own Instant Transmission, that's not even looking at combat speed, which is always significantly faster.


Items: He'll get to have his power pole, the magical item of which can grow however long Goku needs, and he'll have three senzu beans. May be an idiot, but comes prepared to a fight to the death.

Prepare time? If there is, Goku indeed got the weaknesses from the Kai's and will only use them if he feels like he can't win.

Techniques: All past techniques used in the Anime and Manga except Spirit Bomb.

Well, I got all this, so who do I think will win? Well, I'll side by Goku, but that's just me. In the end, it's your guy's decision who you stand by.

Ugh… that God Kii wank… please don't saystuff like Goku can't be harmed by those without God Kii, or can overpower the attacks of those without God Kii, it's a massive NLF.

Anyway, characters who are able to recreate the Big Bang with punches,and jump to nearby spiral galaxies in under a second are, to use your metaphor, "not even worthy enough to be a tick in [Laharl]'s hair" In other words he's at least hundreds to thousands of times faster than SSBx10 Goku, and can treat characters on par with Goku like fodder.

Goku's Regenerationn is pretty weak, especially compared to Laharl's (don't know either's specific regen feats, but just look at their pages and you can see that)

Laharl can pause time, cut through space, create clones of himself, use magic and elemental attacks, has toon force and reality warping, and with dimension slash can seemingly shatter the fabric of space(-time) in a limited area, possibly throughout the universe (as it, and I quote this from his page, "echoes throughout the universe")

^Actually Laharl sort of does have "God Ki", being a skilled ki user on top of a magic user and being a divine entity of sorts (Overlords are the closest thing to demon gods the verse has besides, well, actual gods.)

I'd hardly say Universe level characters are fodder by the Disgaea-verse's standards, but he's dealt with them before on numerous occasions without breaking too much of a sweat, even multiple at once

"Fodder" in the Disgaea-verse is primarily made up of Relativistic+ to MFTL, Moon to Star-busters, they're "chump change" as Etna put it

Well if you take into account that pretty much any of the summoned humanoid demons in the Disgaea games can learn Big Bang and Galaxy Comet, arguably the two most impressive moves feat wise, so although they aren't fodder per se, they're still vastly inferior to Laharl, no?

Not entirely sure that's canon, IIRC generic mobs don't know Tier 6 weapon skills

Unless you count the Item/Chara Worlds?

Blahblah9755 said:

Ugh… that God Kii wank… please don't saystuff like Goku can't be harmed by those without God Kii, or can overpower the attacks of those without God Kii, it's a massive NLF.
Anyway, characters who are able to recreate the Big Bang with punches,and jump to nearby spiral galaxies in under a second are, to use your metaphor, "not even worthy enough to be a tick in [Laharl]'s hair" In other words he's at least hundreds to thousands of times faster than SSBx10 Goku, and can treat characters on par with Goku like fodder.

Goku's Regenerationn is pretty weak, especially compared to Laharl's (don't know either's specific regen feats, but just look at their pages and you can see that)

Laharl can pause time, cut through space, create clones of himself, use magic and elemental attacks, has toon force and reality warping, and with dimension slash can seemingly shatter the fabric of space(-time) in a limited area, possibly throughout the universe (as it, and I quote this from his page, "echoes throughout the universe")

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God Ki wank? Hmm... Nah. I'm just putting down what's the actual thing. I never said he can't get hurt, it's just his defense is much greater against any non-God Ki attacks. Goku's Regenerationn is only an account of the temporary immortality, which is gone when he's out of the God Form. I've seen the Toriyama interviews, everything on God Ki specifically, it's in a way, a pretty overpowered ability, but it was created to protect the deities who keep balance throughout the twelve universes. And as for you worshipping the whole big bang punches, I'll repeat once again... First God Goku= Three punches send entire universe into darkness. Super Saiyan Beyond god= .06 of a punch would send the universe into darkness if it wasn't compressed. Super Saiyan Blue= .00015 of a punch would send the universe into darkness. Unrestrained Goku= .0001 of a punch. Goku's already broken through space, Super Saiyan Three Gotenks, a far less powerful character's screams broke through space. They've already fought a very powerful reality warper named Janemba, destroyed without a thought by a character much weaker than Unrestrained Blue Goku. Goku can also create clones of himself, all the Z fighters can, called the Multi-Form technique, why don't they use it more often. Plot, that's why. All of these things are things Dragonball characters already have done and overpowered through. And an echo throughout the universe. Let me remind you again... THREE PUNCHES, FIRST TIME GOD FORM.

ThePerpetual said:

^Actually Laharl sort of does have "God Ki", being a skilled ki user on top of a magic user and being a divine entity of sorts (Overlords are the closest thing to demon gods the verse has besides, well, actual gods.)
I'd hardly say Universe level characters are fodder by the Disgaea-verse's standards, but he's dealt with them before on numerous occasions without breaking too much of a sweat, even multiple at once

"Fodder" in the Disgaea-verse is primarily made up of Relativistic+ to MFTL, Moon to Star-busters, they're "chump change" as Etna put it

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Laharl may have his own type of a God Ki in his universe, but this God Ki is specific for the DB Universe. In all reality, Goku isn't some normal universe busting character, he's much further above, everything Laharl has done, it seems Goku already has done it, or fought someone who's done it. This fight may come down to the winner is whoever is in who's universe. That's what happens when you put these kind of characters in a fight like this.

Unrestrained Blue Goku... Huh, nice ring to it.

Hm, well on most Disgaea threads I've been on they've considered stuff like Big Bang and Galaxy Comet being learned by essentially any playable characters (including those you summon from the Dark Assembly) as canon, but since I don't have the right consoles to play any of the games but Disgaea DS, and I'm not that far through, I can't say how accurate that is.

I never claimed he was "just another Universe-buster" (which sounds rather funny to say btw), just pointing out the relative scale we're working with here.

Also, generally speaking, when something is similar enough to an equivalent energy in another verse, the two are allowed to correlate as far as a Vs Battles debate setting goes.

I don't really know which "verse" this is set in, either: again, I just picked this place because it looked cool and I like cool things.

...That does have a nice ring to it.

Blahblah9755 said:

Hm, well on most Disgaea threads I've been on they've considered stuff like Big Bang and Galaxy Comet being learned by essentially any playable characters (including those you summon from the Dark Assembly) as canon, but since I don't have the right consoles to play any of the games but Disgaea DS, and I'm not that far through, I can't say how accurate that is.

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Well, even so. Saitama punches can create big bangs, Laharl punches can create big bangs, but UBG doesn't need to do much to send a universe stantly into darkness. I think about it this way, a big bang may be powerful, and after MANY years, it's reached so far into a universe we know today. That's years, Goku' .0001 of whatever takes that little strength could send an entire universe into darkness, with seconds. Year upon years VS seconds, that's how I think about it when it comes to power. Everything this Overlord has done, Dragonball's already done it.

Saitama punches can create big bangs.face palm

Just going to point out a true Big Bang is closer to a Low 2-C event. Don't really have an opinion on the fight. Just letting everyone know.

Jesus, the Goku wank is real. Meh going to abstain from Goku verse threads.

And that total ok azath

Yeah kuu

You do know Laharl's version of the Big Bang takes a whole of like, 1/10th a second, right?

ThePerpetual said:

I never claimed he was "just another Universe-buster" (which sounds rather funny to say btw), just pointing out the relative scale we're working with here.
Also, generally speaking, when something is similar enough to an equivalent energy in another verse, the two are allowed to correlate as far as a Vs Battles debate setting goes.

I don't really know which "verse" this is set in, either: again, I just picked this place because it looked cool and I like cool things.

...That does have a nice ring to it.

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"Just another universe buster." Sheesh, at this rate, Spongebob's gonna be sneezing out multiverses. Look, let's take a look at this, Overlord can stop time, right? Goku at a Kaioken+Whatever number can break through that easily, so that ability becomes useless. So Laharl can recreate Big Bang's with his punches? Well, now matter how you look at it, that is impressive. But a Big Bang is slow but insanely fast as well, so think about this. A big bang take billions upon billions of years to get the universe where it is, Unrestrained Blue Goku with .0001 power can send that universe, fully made, into darkness in seconds. Seconds. S.E.C.O.N.D.S. Not with a punch, but with .0001 the power of a punch. No kaioken added. Goku's speed is 1/5 the speed of instantaneous, in Kaioken is above relativity, and however high he wants to raise the Kaioken, he'll just get faster and stronger. I know what Goku's God Ki does for him, the Regenerationn and temporary immortality are a thing and very helpful, I just guess the people in charge of Goku's page aren't paying attention to the interviews and ect. Honestly all these feats Goku's already done or surpassed.

Again, that's what characters who are nigh-fodder can do, and Goku has no speed feats that put him at even 1/10th the speed of Laharl, also you're treating these multipliers like their linear when, afaik, only the Kaio-Ken is.

Also doesn't Goku only have afterimage creation not actual cloning, and isn't the spatial destruction in DBU basically glorified inter universal/dimensional portal creation, as opposed to full blown space cutting?

Also Laharl and other characters can dodge the Big Bang attack which seemingly extends to the end of the observable universe in less than a second, which would make them way faster than is stated on their profile

Lastly the dimension slash is an attack of space (possibly space-time) shattering, not just a regular attack on a universal scale like Goku's is.

Blahblah9755 said:

Again, that's what characters who are nigh-fodder can do, and Goku has no speed feats that put him at even 1/10th the speed of Laharl, also you're treating these multipliers like their linear when, afaik, only the Kaio-Ken is.
Also doesn't Goku only have afterimage creation not actual cloning, and isn't the spatial destruction in DBU basically glorified inter universal/dimensional portal creation, as opposed to full blown space cutting?

Also Laharl and other characters can dodge the Big Bang attack which seemingly extends to the end of the observable universe in less than a second, which would make them way faster than is stated on their profile

Lastly the dimension slash is an attack of space (possibly space-time) shattering, not just a regular attack on a universal scale like Goku's is.

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Oi... It was shown in Super already... Okay, you wanna know what Goku's Kaioken x10 confirmed speed is? Beyond the speed of instant. In fact, beyond the speed of relativity. THIS is why you gotta look beyond the anime, and into interviews, do a little math. And the Kaioken, since it's mixed with the Blue form, it was given new rules, technically, Goku can go Kaioken XInfinite if he wanted to, long as he got the 10% chance. And no, the afterimage is not the cloning technique. There's afterimage, and then Multi-form, which is a technique that Goku learned from Tien. And what's the point of escaping the big bang? Do you want a medal? Goku at .0001% of power could do anything beyond the power of the Big Bang, besides, those would just be the shockwave, from what you're telling me, if he took a punch from Goku, he'd be screwed. And the dimension slash can possible break through space and time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q26vsjfMK80 HIS scream shattered space and time, and he's not even in the same realm as Unrestrained Blue Goku.

So far, there's nothing about Laharl that you've told me that even slightly moves me to his side at all. You just keep repeating the same things, and I keep telling you how each of them was countered, and how they aren't that impressive.

>Speed of instant.

Look at what you did Toriyama. You made Goku get wanked even more.

Didn't we already address the "Faster than Time" thing before? We labelled it as a bad resistance at best, PIS at worst. And there's no such thing as faster than instant unless you're beyond 3-D, and Goku's clearly not.

KuuIchigo said:

>Speed of instant.
Look at what you did Toriyama. You made Goku get wanked even more.

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Not really. Vegeta's not exactly far from that. And Hit is already faster than that, then there's the gods...