Son Goku vs Laharl Krichevskoy

[Shock97]

Didn't we already address the "Faster than Time" thing before? We labelled it as a bad resistance at best, PIS at worst. And there's no such thing as faster than instant unless you're beyond 3-D, and Goku's clearly not.

It would be labeled as Time Manipulation resistance (specifically Time Stop) the degree of which can be argued since Hitto's Time Manipulation can stop time within stopped time as crazy as that sounds. PIS wouldn't be a factor granted Goku simply was so powerful the Time Stop just didn't work anymore, and DB characters being resistant to hax is nothing uncommon in the series.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Guys we've been over the faster than an instant thing. Goku simply resisted Hit's basic time stop, but Hit was still fast enough to freeze him when they were both moving in stopped time, anyway.

Jotaro resisting The World's time stop does not give him "beyond instant" speed. It's the same here.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Also, he broke through .5 second time stop so you're saying he can break through any?

Goku's regen, as I've already pointed out, is pathetic compared to Laharl's

and "1/5 the speed of instantaneous" are you kidding me? And being above relativity would literally just require low ftl speed.

How has Goku done or surpassed these feats? He has no feats of actual universe busting (and is only considered that strong through being at least 10x stronger than himself), no feats of regenerating to the level Laharl can, no feats of speed faster than Laharl's, no feats of surpassing time stop better than .5 seconds, no feats of taking on actual dimension/space cutting (as I pointed out what you've showed is glorified portal creation), no feats of taking on toon force, no canon feats of taking on reality warping.

And you don't seriously think Laharl is the kind of guy who's gonna let Goku sit their powering up right?

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

Didn't we already address the "Faster than Time" thing before? We labelled it as a bad resistance at best, PIS at worst. And there's no such thing as faster than instant unless you're beyond 3-D, and Goku's clearly not.

Well, you may not wanna believe it, but that's how it is. It may be a "Bad resistance" but it's truthful, outrunning and breaking the Tokitobashi. Even then, it was only possible by 1) Being a god. 2) Multiplying your power.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

snip

I've been hearing time within time. It could either be stacked akin to Bayonetta or just improved. And just shows that power>hax in verse. I doubt it would be the same against someone like Odin, Dialga, or God Emperor of Mankind, where timestop overrides power regardless. Though I wouldn't be upset if I were wrong.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Didn't we already address the "Faster than Time" thing before? We labelled it as a bad resistance at best, PIS at worst. And there's no such thing as faster than instant unless you're beyond 3-D, and Goku's clearly not.

Well, you may not wanna believe it, but that's how it is. It may be a "Bad resistance" but it's truthful, outrunning and breaking the Tokitobashi. Even then, it was only possible by 1) Being a god. 2) Multiplying your power.

.5 seconds time stop is pathetic. And 1) That is nlf. Even Zeref from Fairy Tail has better time stop than Hit. Actually even a fodder like Dimaria Yesta has better time hax.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I've been hearing time within time.

-cough-DIO-cough-

 

[Shock97]

snip

I've been hearing time within time. It could either be stacked akin to Bayonetta or just improved. And just shows that power>hax in verse. I doubt it would be the same against someone like Odin, Dialga, or God Emperor of Mankind, where timestop overrides power regardless. Though I wouldn't be upset if I were wrong.
Power usually can overcome hax in DB but against other time manipulators in other verses the resistance would still be applicable, not as though it would just disappear it would just be that anyone with better time manipulation than Hitto would affect Goku. The question now is where do you rank Hitto's Time Manipulation, Time Stop no matter what the length (even time stop within time stop) is a great display.

 

[ThePerpetual]

@Blahblah These are all good points, but I'd say yes on that last bit. Remember, this is a verse that shoots the piss out of every animu trope ever, he'd probably just be like, "Ooh, a power-up! Let's see what color hair he gets this time!!"

Then again... maybe? It's more an Etna kind of thing to do, though.

"So far, there's nothing about Laharl that you've told me that even slightly moves me to his side at all."

Well I'm trying to be mostly impartial as the OP but I could make a case for the guy if you'd like I suppose?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I believe Hit now has relatively good time-stop, after improving it. Though unfortunately, I can't think of one with worse timestop. Then again, I'm mainly thinking of Skyfathers and tier 2's.

 

[Shock97]

I believe Hit now has relatively good time-stop, after improving it. Though unfortunately, I can't think of one with worse timestop. Then again, I'm mainly thinking of Skyfathers and tier 2's.

lol that would do it. Obviously his time manipulation is weakk compared to Skyfathers and Tier 2 guys, at least for now. No telling how powerful it may be in the future.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's the truth.

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

snip

I've been hearing time within time. It could either be stacked akin to Bayonetta or just improved. And just shows that power>hax in verse. I doubt it would be the same against someone like Odin, Dialga, or God Emperor of Mankind, where timestop overrides power regardless. Though I wouldn't be upset if I were wrong.
Actually, that EXACTLY how Hit got the Tokitobashi to work again, his Improvement ability powered up his Tokitobashi up to the point where he could time leap Goku inside the time leap. So... Freezing time inside of time. It's how he escaped the explosion from the Kamehameha and Goku's fist.

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

snip

I've been hearing time within time. It could either be stacked akin to Bayonetta or just improved. And just shows that power>hax in verse. I doubt it would be the same against someone like Odin, Dialga, or God Emperor of Mankind, where timestop overrides power regardless. Though I wouldn't be upset if I were wrong.

Power usually can overcome hax in DB but against other time manipulators in other verses the resistance would still be applicable, not as though it would just disappear it would just be that anyone with better time manipulation than Hitto would affect Goku. The question now is where do you rank Hitto's Time Manipulation, Time Stop no matter what the length (even time stop within time stop) is a great display.
Hit's timeskip only lasts as long as he needs. His body improves so it can kill its opponent, if it feels like the time leap isn't strong enough, it'll find ways to make it stronger. Like freezing time inside of a time freeze.

 

[Shock97]

Hit's timeskip only lasts as long as he needs. His body improves so it can kill its opponent, if it feels like the time leap isn't strong enough, it'll find ways to make it stronger. Like freezing time inside of a time freeze.
That would explain the growth factor. Interesting point.

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

You guys honestly think making the time manipulation LONGER will change anything? No, all that'll do is having a moving Goku in frozen time woth whoever is controlling it. Kinda making stopping time pointless.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You guys honestly think making the time manipulation LONGER will change anything? No, all that'll do is having a moving Goku in frozen time woth whoever is controlling it. Kinda making stopping time pointless.

I think people are talking about higher degrees of time stop working on Goku, maybe.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

laharl is too fast and has hax while goku has time resistance but thats it so far..

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

Goku and Beerus shake the universe-0

Goku 2/3 punches

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

There's 2/3 punches, Goku equalized it on the third, sending the shockwaves through him instead so the universe wouldn't bust.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Well I was actually talking about longer time stop since being able to stop time for longer implies better control of the ability,meaning it may work on characters who have resisted it to a lesser degree, but if Hit really can freeze time within frozen tine, and Goku can really resist that then I'll concede this point, Goku still has never shown to be able to take on spatial, reality warping, or toon force attacks from someone who wasn't restricted by PIS. Or taken on someone many many times faster than him.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

but if Hit really can freeze time within frozen tine, and Goku can really resist that then I'll concede this point

He resisted Hit's initial time stop, but Hit still froze him (as in literally froze) in stopped time.

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

Goku Ssj Blue Kaioken X10 Vs Hit ! Dragon Ball Super Episode 39 Part 3 3 ! with English Sub

Goku breaks through time

Goku breaks through the time leap in his Kaioken X10.

 

[KuuIchigo]

I still say Laharl should still take this. SSB Kaoiken doesn't last that long. He is faster so he can just run until Goku runs out of the form. And if all else fails he can just bust the Planet since he can survive in the vacuum of space and Goku can't. And why are you guys talking about time stop when Laharl can do more than that...

 

[Blahblah9755]

I thought Goku could survive in space now?

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

Goku Versus Hit Conclusion! Final Part! Dragon Ball Super Episode 40 1080p

Hit reveals his new improvement

And this is where Hit reveals his body improved again, allowing him to pretty much time freeze in the time freeze just to get away from Goku.

 

[KuuIchigo]

But seriously, Laharl has more then just time hax. You guys are acting as if being resistance to time hax makes Goku invinicble to all hax.

 

[Shock97]

But seriously, Laharl has more then just time hax. You guys are acting as if being resistance to time hax makes Goku invinicble to all hax.

Who said he was invincible to all hax? Just trying to hammer out the specifics of his Time Hax resistance, I came in late so maybe users are saying that above lol.

 

[ThePerpetual]

All of this is well and good, but Laharl only uses time stop/time manipulation in a few of his attacks and I sort of doubt it's the first thing he'd think of so uh...

 

[KuuIchigo]

Well, yeah. But all you guys are talking about is Hit's time stop and Goku's resistance to it.

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

I still say Laharl should still take this. SSB Kaoiken doesn't last that long. He is faster so he can just run until Goku runs out of the form. And if all else fails he can just bust the Planet since he can survive in the vacuum of space and Goku can't. And why are you guys talking about time stop when Laharl can do more than that...

Are you serious... Not only can Goku keep up with his speed, but without the Kaioken his raw power is more than enough to take the guy out. And in the God Form Goku can breathe in space, not underwater though. I... Blame Toei for that. Anyway, the reason no one is really talking about th other techniques is because we've already seen them in Dragonball.Reality bending, time and space breaking, all of it. Honestly, all of it. Goku is a smart adaptive fighter, even when he's completely overpowered, outmatched, he ends up finding a way to win. And if Laharl ever tried destroying the Earth, ever since Golden Frieza, you better believe Goku will go Kaio-kill and finish him off.

 

[KuuIchigo]

I'm going by the profiles where it says Goku can't survive in the vaccum of space. And what does seeing all the moves do? Goku has not shown any resistance to them except time stop. "he ends up finding a way to win." Yeah, no. That is a shounen trope so that won't help him beat Laharl.

 

[Blahblah9755]

Um no, the reason we're ignoring it is because you are pretending we haven't brought up these points, buu has glorified portal creation, not space attacks, and due to PIS doesn't bother using them, Janemba is non-canon so why even bring it up, and he still has never combatted toon force

Also Goku's speed isn't 1/5 of instant, it isn't even tens of trillions of times faster than light, and Laharl has feats that put him 100s of trillions of times faster than light at the very least, likely much much higher.

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

Have you watched the movies? Have you watched the anime? Have you read the manga? Have you listened to the interviews? I mean, hell, Beerus and Goku are fighting in space in one of those scenes! Actually do your own research instead of copy off everyone else's. And Shounen Trope or not, it's who Goku's character is. In fact, he's the one that made that Shounen's thing, you take away Goku's willpower, you've got a completely different character. And that's not how we're playing this. And you wanna go through all these other "hax"? Okay, let move onto Reality Bending.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Copy? We go by the profiles here. Most of the movies are not canon. BOG and ROF have been retconned. Willpower won't help him getting haxed to death.

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

Um no, the reason we're ignoring it is because you are pretending we haven't brought up these points, buu has glorified portal creation, not space attacks, and due to PIS doesn't bother using them, Janemba is non-canon so why even bring it up, and he still has never combatted toon force
Also Goku's speed isn't 1/5 of instant, it isn't even tens of trillions of times faster than light, and Laharl has feats that put him 100s of trillions of times faster than light at the very least, likely much much higher.

Ugh... It was stated in the manga Buu was shattering space and time, not creating random portals, in fact, that's in the anime in general. Janemba is non canon, and? It's still a character they fought, non canon movies are considered different dimensions in the DB community. And you sure about that? Goku in his FIRST TIME God form was 6,000,000,000,000x faster than light. A Super Saiyan Beyond god is 300,000,000,000,000x the speed of light, and the Blue form before Universe 6 is 2,400,000,000,000,000x the speed of light. And yes, went through actual math to find that, starting from the first light speed character which was Raditz.

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

Copy? We go by the profiles here. Most of the movies are not canon. BOG and ROF have been retconned. Willpower won't help him getting haxed to death.

Hmm, pretty sure we already gone through that time hax you were so confident in. So let's tear down the speed. 2,400,000,000,000,000x the speed of light for Blue Goku, not even Universe 6 yet.

 

[SaiyanWarlordX]

Copy? We go by the profiles here. Most of the movies are not canon. BOG and ROF have been retconned. Willpower won't help him getting haxed to death.

And because the movies were retconned, doens't mean there are a few valuable things in there,

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

starting from the first light speed character which was Raditz.

Raditz is not light speed. That was from a translation and not in the original manga's text. He was calced at Sub-rel+, though, and everyone hit FTL by the end of the Frieza Saga, but not Raditz.

 

[KuuIchigo]

I didn't even bring up time hax, you or someone else did. I said Laharl has more then just time hax. And where are you even getting these speeds from?