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Legendary Pokémon Downgrade

Peter1129

Peter1129

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So I've been looking at the legendary Pokémon profiles and I disagree with some stuff and have been meaning to make a revision thread.

Zygarde
Basically we should remove Zygarde's key from the Pokémon Special manga after it absorbed Xerneas and Yveltal cause I'm pretty sure that never happened. Xerneas said the more power they used the more power Zygarde collects from them to balance it the ecosystem. After it realized this Xerneas seemed to have made itself and Yveltal go into a dormant state in order to weaken Zygarde enough for X to defeat it. Which means Zygarde didn't completely absorb both Xerneas and Yveltal. It only absorbed energy proportional to the amount they used in their battle which is unquantifiable.

Magearna
On Magearna's profile it says it required the combined power of multiple wild Pokemon and 100% Zygarde to negate its beam.

But 100% Zygarde didn't really participate in the battle that much. It only shot a single energy beam to weaken the blast enough for the wild Pokemon to cancel it out. So I don't think Magearna should scale to 100% Zygarde. It should probably just scale to the other mythical Pokémon like Shaymin.

So it's been brought up that Zygarde decided to go 100% instead of 50% or stay in 10% to weaken it. So Magearna should still scale above 50% Zygarde but below 100% Zygarde.

Mewtwo
So currently Mega Mewtwo is scaled to 50% Zygarde because he fought it in the X&Y Arc in the manga. But honestly he really shouldn't. Zygarde was able to easily knock him out with a dragon pulse. And Mewtwo is much more consistently shown to be weaker than the Aura Trios and comparable to the likes of Rayquaza and Deoxys. As shown on Rayquaza's profile it took Mega Mewtwo, Mega Rayquaza and Deoxys to stop Dark Matter's influence which could overcome the Tree of Life (Xerneas).

Shiny Genesect
Scales to Mega Mewtwo though he seemed to be weaker overall.

Kyurem
Scales above Shiny Genesect in Base. Black/White Kyurem is twice as strong as Base. Complete Kyurem/Original Dragon is thrice as strong as Base.

Zekrom and Reshiram
Stronger than Base Kyurem.

Swords of Justice
Cobalion managed to cancel out a blast from Base Kyurem so they should also scale.

Resolute Keldeo
Almost defeated Black/White Kyurem.

Overall
Zygarde key removal therefore no more 5-A Pokemon and 100% Zygarde probably becomes the only 5-B+ Pokemon.

Magearna scales to Zygarde since it decided to go 100% to weaken it's beam rather than use 50% or stay 10%. So Magearna is stronger than 703 Zettatons.

Mega Mewtwo shouldn't scale to 50% Zygarde and should therefore scale above Mega Rayquaza who is 420 Zettatons for destroying Grand Meteor Delta.

Shiny Genesect scales to Mega Mewtwo who is stronger than 420 Zettatons.

Base Kyurem scales above Shiny Genesect so he's over 420 Zettatons. Black/White Kyurem is twice as strong as Base Kyurem so he's over 840 Zettatons. Complete Kyurem is thrice as strong as base Kyurem which therefore makes him over 1260 Zettatons or 1.26 Yottatons.

Zekrom and Reshiram are stronger than Base Kyurem so they scale above 420 Zettatons.

Swords of Justice scales to Base Kyurem so they are also around 420 Zettatons.

Resolute Keldeo almost defeated Black/White Kyurem so he's over 840 Zettatons.

TLDR
At least 5-B+: Complete Kyurem

5-B+: 100% Zygarde, Resolute Keldeo and Black/White Kyurem

At least 5-B: Xerneas, Yveltal, 50% Zygarde, Magearna, Mega Mewtwo, Shiny Genesect, Base Kyurem, Zekrom, Reshiram, Coballion, Terakkion and Virizion
 
I honestly don't think Mewtwo in general should scale to these legends outside of Adventures Mewtwo. Like isn't that a specific Mewtwo? But that's just my two cents.
 
I thought the profiles are composite? Also I did say that Mewtwo throughout the different medias is much more consistently shown to be comparable to the likes of Rayquaza and Deoxys and much weaker than the Aura Trio.
 
This looks fine to me, but some of the values like what will be taken for Zygarde are prone to discussion after this post.
 
I forgot how we treated Legendary composites....it is weird, but if I make a grievance, it would just cause a shitstorm like always. I'll just see where this goes.
 
Bobsican said:
This looks fine to me, but some of the values like what will be taken for Zygarde are prone to discussion after this post.
Click to expand...
What do you mean?
 
Bobsican said:
That I agree with most of the stuff, but I´ll keep my vote until that stuff is cleared out.
Click to expand...
I was actually asking about what you meant by the values. Cause I'm pretty sure 50% Zygarde scales to 717 Zettatons and 100% Zygarde is 1434 Zettatons until the implied Ultra Necrozma vs 100% Zygarde fight in the SMUSUM Arc in the manga happens and potentially upgrades it to 4-B.
 
"Like isn't that a specific Mewtwo?"

It's a Legendary Pokémon, Dragon. They're all pretty much a "specific" version, unless we're talking about legendaries who are explictly a big species like the Lati@s. Unless Manga Mewtwo is explicitly stronger than other Mewtwos, it shouldn't matter.
 
Overlord775 said:
If Magearna was only 6-B, then Zygarde wouldn't have needed to turn 100% to block the attack
Click to expand...
Well you have a point there so I guess maybe a possibly/likely 5-B for Magearna then.
 
Just curious, I lost track of the Ultra Necrozma thread but I remember most agreeing with the 4-B upgrade (due to it illuminating the universe), did something happen to prevent the upgrade?.
 
No the thread just suddenly died out. Though everybody has already agreed on Ultra Necrozma returning to 4-B it got dragged out because somebody wanted to scale 4-B to the Alola Legendaries and all the Ultra Beasts.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
"Like isn't that a specific Mewtwo?"
It's a Legendary Pokémon, Dragon. They're all pretty much a "specific" version, unless we're talking about legendaries who are explictly a big species like the Lati@s. Unless Manga Mewtwo is explicitly stronger than other Mewtwos, it shouldn't matter.
Click to expand...
Yes, but last I checked, Adventures Mewtwo is much different than other Mewtwo (Like I don't think all Mewtwo carry giant spoons or is part human)

But I won't pursue this.

As for the Adventures scaling, I'll let those more well versed with it to deal with it.
 
Oof... that's terrible, seeing Ultra Necrozma still "at least 5-B" bothers me.

As for this thread I'll remain neutral until more points and counterpoints are made (still waiting for the day Lugia and Ho-oh take their rightful place alongside the other High 6-A+ mascot legendaries).
 
Mega Mewtwo still got one shotted a few minutes later and he still struggled to even hold back Zygarde. So he doesn't directly scale to him.
 
If he didn't scale to him he wouldn't have been able to hold it off at all and would have been more than knocked out by the dragon pulse.
 
This is offguard? In the bottom of this panel we see that Mega Mewtwo X is still trying to hold back Zygarde. And then in the next page he got knocked out by a dragon pulse.
 
I mean, being knocked out by something doesn't mean you can't scale. Just depends on the context of the scene.
 
This was basically the context. Mega Mewtwo X struggled to hold back 50% Zygarde on screen. And after Emma had a talk with X she commanded Zygarde to use dragon pulse which then knocked out Mega Mewtwo X who was engaging it in combat.
 
Also M-Ray's feat is 420 ZT.

I also forgot how much I loved the manga. Proves Pokemon's serious side.
 
Wait it was 420 ZT? I thought the comments said the low-low end of the Grand Meteor Delta feat was accepted?
 
Again, if Mewtwo managed to hold back Zygarde at all, he scales. If he didn't scale at all he would have been one shot from the start with no resistance.
 
The fact Mewtwo was able to fend off Zygarde's attacks at all is clear cut evidence of Mewtwo existing in the same realm of power as Zygarde.

Zygarde was obviously stronger but Mewtwo wasnt completely insignificant in comparison.
 
There is somthing wrong with Mythical Pokémons profiles, some of them scale to the Legendary Birds to get the 6-B+ rating, wich none of the birds have, in fact, they are only Low 6-B, am i missing something or it is just the profiles that are wrong?
 
Peter1129 said:
Wait it was 420 ZT? I thought the comments said the low-low end of the Grand Meteor Delta feat was accepted?
Click to expand...
I'm gonna need someone to answer this.
 
I'm gonna need someone to answer this.

Low-High. Or High-Low. I forgot the order Assalt put it in.
 
I also very much disagree with Magearna being downgraded as well.

Zygarde doesnt just become Perfect Zygarde on a whim, it only does that when there is actual need for it. Just because it shot "a single beam" doesnt take away from the fact that Zygarde needed its true power to weaken Magearna's attack, which would have never been neccessary if Magearna was that much weaker than Zygarde.

So it should stay where it is: slighty superior to Zygarde.
 
I'm gonna need someone to answer this.

Low-High. Or High-Low. I forgot the order Assalt put it in.


Here, Cal:

KE

Low-Low: 6.224x10^32 joules, 5-B, Planet level

KE Low-High: 2.490x10^33 joules, 5-B, Planet level

KE High-Low: 1.757x10^33 joules, 5-B, Planet level

KE High-High: 7.028x10^33 joules, 5-B, Planet level
 
Well if that's the case than shouldn't Mega Mewtwo just scale above that?

Cause in the manga Deoxys was able to take on Base Rayquaza, Primal Groudon and Kyogre at the same time with his meteors. And since this is composite Base Mewtwo scales to Deoxys which makes Mega Mewtwo stronger than Mega Rayquaza who is 420 Zettatons which is consistent with him holding back 50% Zygarde who is 717 Zettatons despite being weaker.
 
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