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Nanatsu no Taizai AP Issues

DemonGodMitchAubin

DemonGodMitchAubin

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
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This has been bothering me for a while, there are a lot of issues with some of the random AP results that are handed out to characters in the series

Note: The Low 7-B's are from being much stronger than characters that are comparable to the High 7-C+ feat but weaker than the characters that are comparable to the 7-B feat. The 7-A's are from being much stronger than the characters that scale to the 7-B+ feat. The High 7-A's are from being much weaker than the characters that performed the 6-C feat but still much stronger than 7-A characters that could one shot other 7-A's. The High 6-C+'s are from being much stronger than the characters that performed High 6-C feat and a 2x multiplier. The Low 6-B's are from being much stronger than High 6-C+ characters on top of another 2x multiplier.

First of all, you don't just hand out AP results based on stomps or other long scaling chains, so the Low 7-B's, 7-A's, High 7-A's, High 6-C+'s, and Low 6-B's need to be revised

So...

Low 7-B's -> At least High 7-C+

7-A's -> At least 7-B

High 7-A's -> Unknow or something else

High 6-C+'s -> High 6-C

Low 6-B's -> High 6-C+

I expect some contention, but we shouldn't just hand out random AP results from being stronger or weaker
 
Wow, this seems like a mess. Where the calcs super close to the next tier? that's the only reason I could think of for them getting the scaling they do.
 
The 7-B's were 71 Megatons, so close to 7-A, but as for everything else is not close

Escanor scales above High 6-C (221.8 Gigatons)

And Assault Mode Meliodas is 2x that so... (443.6 Gigatons)

And then Zeldris scales to that, and multiplies his power (887.2 Gigatons)

Demon King scales far above Zeldris, so... (At least 887.2 Gigatons)

Full Power Demon King is 2x base (1.7 Teratons)
 
not even surprised lol... but it was already agreed that two high C+ characters auto get small country from fusing
 
Chandler and Cusack wouldn't be High 6-C+ anymore, since they would scale to Assault Mode Meliodas who wouble be downgraded to High 6-C (443.6 Gigatons)
 
Chandler and Cusack scale to Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas who would be High 6-C, they don't scale to Prime Meliodas who would be above Zeldris
 
Meliodas darkness buff
and since when did they hand out tiers for stomps all they do is put a + which they have been doing for awhile ... only thing that changed that was the fusion for OD
 
Escanor scales above High 6-C (221.8 Gigatons)

And Assault Mode Meliodas is 2X that, so... (443.6 Gigatons)

Currently Meliodas is High 6-C+ based on the scaling above, which makes 0 sense, you just can't boost them to 500 Gigatons, because you wnat to
 
aint the masters in their true form stornger PL wise ? we know meliodas was still getting stronger but it was never really stated by how much
 
We've been over this.

Stop drudging up topics that have been debated to death and back.

Your argument ammounts to "I'm not saying they aren't stronger from stomping somebody. But I'm saying they basically aren't stronger"
 
Most Low 7-Bs are from being weaker and having power level lower than Guila who despite being much weaker is still able to somewhat put up a fight against Gilthunder who made a 14 Megaton storm which is roughly 2.22x baseline 7-B. Some of the others are Low 7-Bs via power levels being much higher than High 7-C+ and not that far off from Low 7-Bs that backward scale from a 7-B. So I don't see why they can't be Low 7-B.

7-As like Gray Demon Hendrickson are from stomping and nearly one shotting 7-B+ like Pre-Training King. Don't see why they shouldn't be 7-A.

High 7-As like Base Galand are from casually one shotting Sealed Wrath Meliodas who is stronger than Post-Training Base Diane who could no sell and one shot baseline 7-As like the Albions. And being much weaker than 6-Cs like Post-Training King who is shown to be much weaker than but still has statements of being at least somewhat comparable to 6-Cs like Gloxinia and Drole who are 23.5 Gigatons which is roughly 5.46x baseline. Here is where things get tricky personally I think the High 7-As are fine via backwards scaling since the gap in power between them are huge.

High 6-C+ came from Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas stomping Near-Noon Escanor who tanked his full countered Cruel Sun twice. And being ridiculously stronger than Tarmiel in a human body who is High 6-C (221.8 Gigatons) at the start of his battle with Meliodas before growing even stronger as it gets closer to noon. I do admit the scaling here is a bit flawed but it was what everybody else agreed on.

Low 6-B came from The Original Demon being a Fusion of True Form Chandler and Cusack and Zeldris' Demon Mark being stated to multiply his power. If the High 6-C+ are accepted this stay if not they'll also get downgraded.

Though to be honest I never really liked using the full counter 2x multiplier to get High 6-C+. Originally I thought it would've been better if they were just at least High 6-C but since everybody including some staffs said High 6-C+ was fine I just rolled with it.
 
whats wrong with full counter tho? its written simply... fires back at 2x more power...easy thing to add
 
Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas would scale to High 6-C (443.6 Gigatons), he is 2X what Escanor scales to, just because Meliodas stomped Escanor, does not mean you can push Meliodas from 443.6 Gigatons to 500 Gigatons so that you can get Low 6-B characters, Chandler and Cusack scale to Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas due to having a higher power level, so they become At least High 6-C (443.6 Gigatons), meaning that the Original Demon scales to High 6-C+ (887.2 Giagtons), so no Low 6-B

The 7-A's I can somewhat agree with, since the feat is very close to baseline 7-A, however I would change them to Likely 7-A (100 megtaons) to make more sense

Guila should just scale to Gilthunder or scale her below, giving a random result like Low 7-B makes 0 sense, either scale her above or below to an actual feat

Same with Base Galand, just scale him to At least 7-A, he should be scaling far above a feat, we don't hand out random values so that they make the profile neater, or just make him Unknown

Overall, everyone should scale to a feat of some sort, we can't give random AP boosts because of a character stomped a character who stomped a character, sorry that's just how the site works
 
Well you decide whatever you want I just rolled with it because everybody said High 6-C+ was fine.

Guila is currently Likely 7-B because she's much weaker than Gilthunder but is still able to somewhat hold her own against him. And Gilthunder is just 2.22x baseline 7-B. The Low 7-Bs are because they are even weaker than Guila who is pretty much baseline 7-B via backwards scaling from Gilthunder.

I'm pretty sure most of the High 7-As will backward scale from the 6-Cs rather than upscale from the 7-As. And I'm pretty sure no matter how you scale them they will still either be in the High 7-A+ range or near baseline 6-C.

Actually you could give AP boosts because of stomping and one shotting. Upscaling and I think downscaling has been accepted quite a while back plus I'm pretty sure they were using even before the thread was made to clarify they aren't usable. And like I said before Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas used to be baseline High 6-C upscaling from the 6-C (43.4 Gigaton) feat thanks to a scaling chain so yeah.
 
My Mael calc has his cloud parting feat at small country level. Not sure why I'm bothering in a mitch thread but meh.
 
High 7-A's should be scaled above the closest feat they have lower than them, if that's the 7-A's then they'll get At least 7-A, likely higher, also upscaling and bumping characters to tiers on long scaling chains is currently frowned upon, better to have results that come from actual multipliers and feats than random numbers slapped on
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
High 7-A's should be scaled above the closest feat they have lower than them, if that's the 7-A's then they'll get At least 7-A, likely higher, also upscaling and bumping characters to tiers on long scaling chains is currently frowned upon, better to have results that come from actual multipliers and feats than random numbers slapped o
Click to expand...
It's never been frowned upon. Tons of series use it here. Stop trying to force your own backward opinion onto something that works just fine.
 
isn't High 7-A Escanor barely 6-C?

imo High 7-A's like Mel should get likely 6-C but i don't have a solid oppinion
 
We should make the current High 7-A's have ratings that come from a calc, we shouldn't just randomly assign ratinsg because he Between 100 Megatons and 23 Gigatons, so we should either scale him to the 100 Megatons or 23 Gigatons, and at appropriate variables such as likely or at least, it's better than saying, yeah, he's High 7-A, when we have no results for said tier

@Versus

It does not work just fine and it is better to scale to ratings that make sense
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas would scale to High 6-C (443.6 Gigatons), he is 2X what Escanor scales to, just because Meliodas stomped Escanor, does not mean you can push Meliodas from 443.6 Gigatons to 500 Gigatons so that you can get Low 6-B characters, Chandler and Cusack scale to Post-Revival Assault Mode Meliodas due to having a higher power level, so they become At least High 6-C (443.6 Gigatons), meaning that the Original Demon scales to High 6-C+ (887.2 Giagtons), so no Low 6-B
The 7-A's I can somewhat agree with, since the feat is very close to baseline 7-A, however I would change them to Likely 7-A (100 megtaons) to make more sense

Guila should just scale to Gilthunder or scale her below, giving a random result like Low 7-B makes 0 sense, either scale her above or below to an actual feat

Same with Base Galand, just scale him to At least 7-A, he should be scaling far above a feat, we don't hand out random values so that they make the profile neater, or just make him Unknown

Overall, everyone should scale to a feat of some sort, we can't give random AP boosts because of a character stomped a character who stomped a character, sorry that's just how the site works
Click to expand...
This, literally this.

I just saw how random and circular is the scaling for all the characters, if they don't have feats at that level and only are there because "muh hur dur, this guys stomps the other guy so he should be one whole tier above" is bad.

@VersusJunkie 54

It is frowned upon, if tons of series uses it then there is a huge problem with them and should be revised. In fact, it would be better to call some admin to analyze the scaling.
 
No it isn't. Scaling chains are used because they make sense. And actually account for a character being stronger than someone. The nonsense you're proposing does not. All series use scaling chains. But many are interpreted differently, and thus scale at slightly different rates.

Also, admins are not a final authority on the legitimacy of ratings here/ Never have been. Never will be.

"I just saw how random and circular is the scaling for all the characters, if they don't have feats at that level and only are there because "muh hur dur, this guys stomps the other guy so he should be one whole tier above" is bad."

Are you trolling? Much of this scaling means the people higher up on the chain being at best 2 or so times stronger than the people at the bottom. In fact this is lowballing to an insane extent. A 2 times difference is tiny actually.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
We should make the current High 7-A's have ratings that come from a calc, we shouldn't just randomly assign ratinsg because he Between 100 Megatons and 23 Gigatons, so we should either scale him to the 100 Megatons or 23 Gigatons, and at appropriate variables such as likely or at least, it's better than saying, yeah, he's High 7-A, when we have no results for said tier
@Versus

It does not work just fine and it is better to scale to ratings that make sense
Click to expand...
These ratings DO make sense. I am not having this debate with you. I would point to the CRT that established this to begin with, and where many people agreed with me and disagreed with your nonsense.
 
But moving on from scaling chains. There are some issues that we ought to resolve.

First off. I'm skeptical of using the Sinner as a 2x multiplier. Or how to even scale him in the first place, for reasons obvious to anyone who's kept up.

Among other anomalies through the series, and from the tier 7 characters.
 
Characters AP should be decided by calcs, whether they scale to said calcs or they scale above them, or they have a multiplier, all statistics should have the origin of a calc, so when we have a result of High 7-A, because a character is stronger than a 7-A, but weaker than a 6-C, that makes 0 sense, and isn't how we are supposed to handle stats for a character, said character should scale far above the 7-A, but that does make them jump to a whole other tier, and if there is no good calc we can scale them to at all, then we would make them Unknown, the idea that you can hand out random 2X multipliers because a character stomps another is dumb and "Is" frowned upon by this site, doesn't matter if a lot of other verses do it, because we're talking about fixing this verses statistics, so we should deal with this verse, saying...

"These ratings DO make sense. I am not having this debate with you. I would point to the CRT that established this to begin with, and where many people agreed with me and disagreed with your nonsense."

This is silly, just because a lot of people agreed with you, does not make something correct, and rubbing my argument off by calling it nonsense and that the ratings just make sense unconditionally does not disprove or make my argument flawed at all, you're just refusing to talk about it by saying everything is fine, when it's really not, handing out random tiers is not how the wiki is supposed to work, so we should fix it, Power Levels are probably a key factor in the flaws behind these tiers
 
Looking back at the scaling I think the only tier that needs a revisions is the High 7-As. Most of the High 7-As are actually High 7-A+ back scaling from a 6-C. And now that I think about it they should probably just be 6-C since the 6-C feat they scale from is 5.46x baseline. The only one who should be High 7-A+ is probably Pre-Purgatory Hunter Fest Ban who is a bit more than half of Base Galand who after this will probably be near baseline if not baseline 6-C.

Though I still stand by and believe that Low 7-B and 7-A are fine due to how close to baseline Low 7-B the new High 7-C+ (949.48 Kilotons) calc is and how close to baseline the 7-B (14.2 Megatons) storm Gilhunder made is.

High 6-C+ you could call in some of the staffs that agreed with it in the discussion thread and the original revision thread.
 
Dogedo apparently is 2X Ruin, because his power level is twice as large, but we already know Power levels make 0 sense, all they tell us is who is stronger, it doesn't give us multipliers, point being, all they should be used for is power scaling who is stronger

Low 7-B's should become At least High 7-C+, scaling above Ruin's Feat

7-A's should become At least 7-B+, likely 7-A, as it makes more sense other than just handing out a tier

High 7-A+'s become either Likely 6-C or At least 7-A, likely higher, whichever believe these characters scale to better

High 6-C+'s become High 6-C

Low 6-B's become High 6-C+

Low 6-B+'s become Low 6-B

This would make a lot more sense with the verses scaling
 
The new Base Dungeon Shaking is 949.48 Kilotons. That's just 1.05x away from baseline Low 7-B.

The 7-As should just be 7-A no need to add at least 7-B. Some of the other series have characters going into a new tier due to a scaling chain even though the feat they scale to isn't even in the + range.
 
^Thought it was still 500 Kilotons, that would work for me, pushing to Low 7-B off of that, however High 7-A and the High 6-C scaling needs to be fixed
 
High 7-As should just be varying degrees of 6-C. Pre-Purgatory Hunter Fest Ban is the only one who might be High 7-A+ due to only being around half as strong as Base Galand who will likely be baseline 6-C after this revision.

High 6-C+ like I said before you're gonna need input from the staff since they were also fine with the upscaling to High 6-C+. Plus the one who made Post-Revival Mode Meliodas High 6-C upscaling from the Danafor Pulverization feat which is just 6-C (43.4 Gigatons) back in I think 2017 was also a staff.
 
@Peter1129

I have contacted staff members, and scaling can change all the time, so we need to go over everything again, also Ban the High 7-A's either scale to the 23 Gigatons or not, you need exact ratings when making a character a tier
 
So yeah

Low 7-B is fine

7-A is fine

High 7-A+ becomes 6-C

High 6-C+ in debate whether or not upscaling of 1.24x via stomping is allowed.

Low 6-B can't be decided until High 6-C+ is finalized.
 
@Demon You can't just say everybody is 23.5 Gigatons. All the current High 7-A+s will scale way below the 23.5 Gigaton feat performed but Drole. So after this revision they will be varying degrees of 6-C below 23.5 Gigatons. Pre-Purgatory Hunter Fest Ban might be High 7-A+ because he's only around half as strong as someone at the very bottom of the 6-C scaling chain.
 
Yeah characters will be scaled below 23.5 Gigatons, but they still scale to the numbers, just below them unquantifiably, the issue with tier jumps is that you're assuming what amount of energy they are exactly, which you can't do without a feat
 
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