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Massive TLOZ Verse Upgrades

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Oblivion_Lightning

Oblivion_Lightning

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Hey,after my last crap thread on the TLOZ I found something a little different,feel free to take a look as I would like thoughts and I'm finally done with the 3-A Triforce stuff and already sent this to others and they support it,Thanks:)

Majora created Termina:(This may have been debunked but even then it still doesn't affect the upgrade) •Yes I'm aware that a thread similar to this has been done before and was rejected,but new info has arrived that adds a bit more context

-"but finally the third book in Dark Horse's Zelda series Hyrule Encyclopedia revealed the solution to the puzzle that is Termina's existence in the world of The Legend of Zelda. The answer it reveals is that Termina is merely a fabrication, created by the power of Majora's Mask when worn by the Skull Kid, and the world ceases to exist once Link departs at the end of the game."

Termina is an parallel Universe:In the official players guide for Majora's Mask.Termina is cited as being a Universe

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0m8qJKv0dHqDxobmo9pINTV4w

•This would explain the several stars in the sky.Since Majora created Termina a "parallel universe" that would be a 3-A feat.

"Majora only created the land/country of Termina not the whole Universe" is wrong:I'm sure many are thinking that Majora only created the lands of Termina.While yes that would debunk the 3-A feat, IF we didn't have another quote from the guide bringing forth this.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0sejR5JCudbJsopCQ_nYtYOew

•The very fact that Majora's power affected Time and Space within Termina which has been stated as a Universe is obviously a Universe to Universe Level+ feat.EVEN IF you don't believe that Termina is a Universe the feat would still be an upgrade to 4-A as Majora can affect time and space within Termina a pocket dimension which includes several stars.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0dWdQWeu-fzpR44yaVGS3zbnQ

Things to consider:The word Universe is almost never used to describe anything in the Zelda series.The words Realm/World are used frequently which describes certain things in varying sizes.The fact that the word Universe is used speaks volumes to me as Termina being a parallel Universe is very plausible even with out the statements.Don't worry soon we will get to the cruel part.....

Majora scaling and Outlier debunk •Going through scaling nothing here is an outleir.I will explain any conflicts with outliers when explaining scaling

Who would scale:(These characters would be the Top Teirs of the verse just below the GG,The Giant Cucco and Groose)

The Triforce-(Stated to be the "Ultimate Power" in Hyrule and is only under the GG placing it above Majora)

Link-(Defeated Majora using the FD Mask and wields the Full Triforce.Should scale to MM Link,Composite and all Link's with the Full Triforce)

Ganondorf-(Has the Full Triforce)

The Master Sword-(could contend with Full Triforce Ganon in the form of the Golden Sword)

Majora-(Duh)

*These upgrades are making me hate Demise and Hylia lol.Fortunately,they might scale based on interpretation and even if they don't scale no outlier would be presented.IMPO I think Demise and Hylia shouldn't scale but here's reasonings and counters(feel free to debate this)

Demise-(Described as King of Demons and should likely be placed above Majora,While he would be on the same level to the Complete Triforce it wouldn't be an outlier as Demise wants the Triforce for it's wishing and RW abilities to rule the realm and not it's AP,and no Malladus would not scale as Majora and Malladus are in 2 separate timelines)

Counter:Just because he's stated as "king of demons" doesn't mean he is the strongest.That would be like saying that the King of Hyrule is stronger than Link because he is a "King".

Hylia-(Fought and contended with Demise.Also wouldn't be an outleir as Hylia gave up her divine power to use the Triforce's wishing abilities to kill Demise and would likely be comparable to the Triforce in power but not in terms of abilities and hax which Hylia wanted to use from the Triforce to kill Demise.)

Counter:Demise as stated above in the previous counter is not comparable to Majora which wouldn't scale to Hylia.

Who wouldn't scale and their reasonings and debunking of more Outliers:

Triforce of Power Ganondorf-(He wouldn't scale as stated by Hyrule Historia that Link needed the FD mask to defeat Majora it's even stated in his profile.The FD mask is unknown and not really connected to the main lore of most of the games so it would scale to 3-A and nothing shows TOP Ganondorf is comparable to Majora,FD Mask or Hylia and Demise for that matter.So by feats TOP Ganondorf would be far below those stated above)

Separate Triforce Pieces-(The Triforce is obviously more powerful when whole.This is also not an outlier as the power and abilities of the pieces alone are far different than that of the Full Triforce.Individually they're around Star Level but when combined and using scaling from Majora as the Full Triforce,it would be of Universe Level.

•Welp,that about wraps up this Revision Thank God......
 
I'll sit down here with some popcorn and say "I agree". After the last zelda thread I need to re-charge from the constant ad nauseums and deperacies that happened there on both sides.
 
We are finally getting Low 2-C main cast?

Link Vs. Kratos is going to happen soon if true, I can feel it.
 
I doubt this is going through, just look at the high 4-C Zant thread, we literally devovled to attempting to call hard modes non-canon in that.
 
I believe so.It is pretty exciting.I have a lot of matches I wanna try out.Well from the last thread many were neutral but now most agree with it.

We gotta remain positive and stick with our claims
 
I'm a just carry over what I wrote on the discussion thread here. In simple words, I disagree with this upgrade:

"I don't agree with the fact that Majora created Termina. Yes, the guide states that this is the case, but ignoring guides and other resources is commonly done when they contradict what is shown in-game.

There's this cutscene in Majora's Mask.

In it, it describes Tatl remembering a drawing that Skull Kid and Tatl & Tale made on a tree when they first meet the Skull Kid before he put on the mask, before he became a psychotic monster. It then shows a cutscene depicting a non-possessed Skull Kid with Tatl and Tale taking place in Termina.

Showing that Termina existed before Skull Kid was possessed with Majora's Mask, and thus before he could have "made the world" - showing that he didn't make it."


The only other evidence that states would give Majora an upgrade is this quote:

"Everyone's personal life has taken a turn for the worse, and it is all because of the mischief spread by the Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask and the influence his cursed guise has on the moon, the heveans, space and time."


I believe using this line as the basis for such a substantial upgrade is quite a stretch. Why?:

"Because there is no feat.

A guide mentioning that "his power affects Space and Time" without anything to prove that can affect space and time can easily be seen as hyperbolic or flowery language. Non-literal words used to mystify or empower a character is seen all the time in fiction, even in fictions in where superpowers or the supernatural don't exist."

"This is can easily be taken as metaphorical. In fact, taking it literally makes it all fall apart.

Majora has control over "the heavens" now? Is he superimposing his will over the Golden Goddess as well? 2-C Majora and Fierce Diety??? That's ridiculous, and so is the prospect of taking this quote seriously without anything substantial backing it up.

This most likely means that Majora's prescene was felt everywhere in Termina - and it was, just look up from any point of the world and you see a moon crashing down toward the planet, Majora's presence is powerful and omnipresent in the setting, but that doesn't mean that this statement should literally mean that Majora has complete control over space and time - not without actually proof.

If Majora had complete control over space and time and had created the parallel reality that is Termina - then why didn't it disappear the moment it was killed? All the effects of Majora's magic were erased from Termina the instant he died. The moon's positioning in the sky, to the world inside the moon, the effects on the provinces, to Kafei's body, et cetera.

So why wasn't Termina erased instantly as well?"


A book contradicting what was shown or explained in the source material can, in fact, be disregarded. Especially if those contradictions are so blatant and numerous. And I believe that is what should happen here.
 
Can you prove that the Heavens in the quote are the heavens the GG came from as the quote is clearly refering to Termina's skies as the words Heavens can easily be interpreted as the sky.Assuming it's the GG Realm is a huge assumption

Just read the quote it clearly says that Majora has influence and control over Space and Time within Termina which would be a Universe as stated or a 4-A feat as his power affected Space as well which would include several stars.Calling it flowery language just because the quote seems cryptic is wrong.Like Triforce said the quote is legit and may others feel the same as well.

Nothing implies that Majora changed anything in time and space but the quote refers to the fact that he has control over it,that is why Time and Space didn't change he just had the ability to control it as stated in the quote
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
Can you prove that the Heavens in the quote are the heavens the GG came from as the quote is clearly refering to Termina.Assuming it's the GG Realm is a huge assumptio
Click to expand...
I already responded to this:

"Any assumptions I may have made are made from necessity and are based on facts - that why I made those specific assumptions, I'll explain.

Termina doesn't have a heaven. The only "heavens" mentioned in Zelda is the place from whence the Goddess came down from and constructed all of creation from the Chaos that was the world and then returned home, it is also known as the Distant Nebula. The Golden Goddesses are beyond their creation and reside in the heavens, so any mention of heavens most likely refers to the place where the gods reside.

Saying that Majora controls the heavens means that he controls the place where the gods come from, which would be the Golden Goddesses since this is Zelda, and thus it would mean that Majora controls the place where the GG come from - infering he is stronger than them, which is ridiculous."
 
This looks fine to me.

Cal is usually the easiest to convince from the staff, however, so this likely will need context from the past threads regarding this, knowning the staff.
 
You have....

-Realm of the Heavens(which is not the Distant Nebula)

-In BOTW they refer to peircing the Heavens which is obviously not the distant nebula https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOmSm32AcyQ&app=desktop

-The Dominion Rod is refereed to as the "Rod of the Heavens"

-City in the sky is also referred to as "the Heavens"

assuming Heavens means the Distant Nebula the GGs came from is absurd
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
You have
-Realm if the Heavens(which is not the Distant Nebula)

-In BOTW they refer to peircing the Heavens which is obviously not the distant nebula https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOmSm32AcyQ&app=desktop

-The Dominion Rod is refereed to as the "Rod of the Heavens"

-City in the sky is also referred to as "the Heavens"

assuming Heavens means the Distant Nebula the GGs came from is absurd
Click to expand...
These are either expressions, or random places in the sky.

None of these refer to Termina in the slightest.

This is the quote.

"Everyone's personal life has taken a turn for the worse, and it is all because of the mischief spread by the Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask and the influence his cursed guise has on the moon, the heavens, space and time."

"The heavens" is separated from the other words by commas, signifying that it is not an expression, but a place that is seperated from the space and time (i.e the location of the game Termina), the moon, et cetera.

As stated before, there is no heaven in Termina. There is no place in the sky, nor are there higher realms from which the deities of Termina reside. The Four Giants are what are considered gods in Termina, and they live on the planet.

Which means that from that information, we can deduce that this:

That by "the heavens" they mean a separated place to Termina, and that the place isn't a random island in the sky, meaning that it is most likely in reference to a home of gods. It also can't be the Four Giants because their home is Termina.

So the most logical conclusion to take from that information is the Distant Nebula, the abode of the Golden Goddesses. The beings who transcend the mortal world and who live in the heavens above.
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
Just read the quote it clearly says that Majora has influence and control over Space and Time within Termina which would be a Universe as stated or a 4-A feat as his power affected Space as well which would include several stars.Calling it flowery language just because the quote seems cryptic is wrong.Like Triforce said the quote is legit and may others feel the same as well.

Nothing implies that Majora changed anything in time and space but the quote refers to the fact that he has control over it,that is why Time and Space didn't change he just had the ability to control it as stated in the quote
Click to expand...
The quote exists, but it doesn't mean that it accurate. Especially since the quote can be taken metaphorically.

The quote isn't cryptic, there's just nothing to it. Like you said, nothing implies Majora had any control over time and space whatsoever. There's nothing else supporting your claims, nor any feats in the source material that correberate what you are saying.

Just having a guide saying that "Majora has influence over space and time" means absolutely nothing without proof of such. Just words are meangless.
 
But it's not as you can just as easily say that the "heavens" could easily be interpreted as the sky of Termina.Claiming it as the Realm the GG come from is still an assumption,and even if Majora did have control over the distant Nebula it still wouldn't be a strong counter as having control over the realm you live in doesn't make you stronger than said beings that live in said Realm.

That would be like saying Ganon is more powerful than Link because he has control over the Dark World and Link is in that World.

When coming down to the quote your taking the absolute lowest interpretation and just pulling for a reason to disregard the obvious message of the quote.Majora having influence and control over space time in a pocket dimension that has been stated to be a parallel Universe is a 3-A feat that is a non negotiable and even if it's not a Universe it would be 4-A as Majora's control and influence affected space along with the several stars in it.There is honestly no argument against this upgrade.The OP explains this in greater detail
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
But it's not as you can just as easily say that the "heavens" could easily be interpreted as the sky of Termina.Claiming it as the Realm the GG come from is still an assumption,and even if Majora did have control over the distant Nebula it still wouldn't be a strong counter as having control over the realm you live in doesn't make you stronger than said beings that living in said Realm.
That would be like saying Ganon is more powerful than Link because he has control over the Dark World and Link is in that World.
Click to expand...
The lack of information leads one to have to make assumptions. Once you make assumptions, you have to break it down to find the most logical conclusion to base your assumptions on.

And Distant Nebula and the Golden Godesses are detached and beyond the mortal world. For Majora to force his will onto the realms of the Goddesses without repercussions is ridiculous.


No, it's more like saying that the government is more powerful than the individual because they can take your home from you without you being able to stop them. If you can forcefully take something from someone without them wanting you to, that means you are stronger than them.


And this is focusing on the wrong part of my argument - that being that the quote is metaphorical for Majora's seemingly omnipresent presence throught Majora's Mask. I'll quote what I mean from the discussion thread:

"This (the quote) most likely means that Majora's prescene was felt everywhere in Termina - and it was, just look up from any point of the world and you see a moon crashing down toward the planet, Majora's presence is powerful and omnipresent in the setting, but that doesn't mean that this statement should literally mean that Majora has complete control over space and time - not without actually proof."


You need more compelling proof of your claims, just a guide book saying that Majora has "influence over space and time" means nothing without any concrete proof backing such a statement up.


This is just like the shit that you tried using to upgrade Ganondorf and the Triforce, here. That quote was seen to be metaphorical and the upgrade was denied, the same thing is here.

Prove to me that this quote is being completely literal.
 
Warren Valion said:
Did you read the counter arguments?
Click to expand...
Now that you mention it, I´ll just take my vote and wait for more consise results of this thread..
 
Your ignoring basic facts having power and control over space and time in a pocket dimension that has been stated to be a Universe is obviously a universal feat you can't argue against that

And can you prove that the quote is referring to Majoras presence? As I'm sure Majora's presence didn't move the moon into Termina and I'm quite sure Majora's presence isn't having power over time and space either

And for the Heavens argument,why would we assume it's The distant Nebula when the word "Heavens" in the Legend of Zelda has been referenced as being the sky more times than the distant Nebula? And it would again be illogical for Majora to reach the distant Nebula as his power would not exceed the GG or the Triforces So its a massive assumption to say that it's refering to the distant nebula
 
The Dark Guise is Majora's Powers and affect over The Moon(That is obvious)The Heavens(could very well mean the sky with stars in it and definitely not the distant Nebula)and Space and Time(On a Universal scale)

What else does this mean and it surely doesn't refer to Majora's presence
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
Your ignoring basic facts having power and control over space and time in a pocket dimension that has been stated to be a Universe is obviously a universal feat you can't argue against that
And can you prove that the quote is referring to Majoras presence? As I'm sure Majora's presence didn't move the moon into Termina and I'm quite sure Majora's presence isn't having power over time and space either

And for the Heavens argument,why would we assume it's The distant Nebula when the word "Heavens" in the Legend of Zelda has been referenced as being the sky more times than the distant Nebula? And it would again be illogical for Majora to reach the distant Nebula as his power would not exceed the GG or the Triforces So its a massive assumption to say that it's refering to the distant nebula
Click to expand...
You're ignoring the fact that just because something is stated to be, doesn't make it so. I don't refute that the quote exists, I can see that it does with my own eyes, but just because it exists, doesn't mean that the quote has to be taken seriously.


You're the one presenting the argument and upgrade, the burden of proof is on you to showcase that your argument isn't flawed. And what? What are you talking about? Majora's main presence in Termina WAS THE MOON. It was the symbol of Death that brought the people of Termina to madness and tears. Space and Time can refer to location, as in the setting of the game - Termina. Majora has caused problems all over Termina and the misery that he has caused can be seen everywhere in the game - that truth is what I am saying that quote is metaphotically refering to.

And maybe because Majora's Mask is a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time? The game that states the GG live in the Heavens. And that all examples of "the heavens" being a place in the sky or an expression are from years later and aren't corroborated by any place or expression in Majora's Mask makes me my assumption possible.


And Majora's power not being able to exceed the GG is literally my point in mentioning that taking the quote literally is most likely incorrect. And again, this isn't the part of my argument that is important.

The point of my argument that is important is saying the quote you are using as the basis of your upgrade is unfounded within the events of the game and that it should be taken metaphorically, not literally.
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
The Dark Guise is Majora's Powers and affect over The Moon(That is obvious)The Heavens(could very well mean the sky with stars in it and definitely not the distant Nebula)and Space and Time(On a Universal scale)
What else does this mean and it surely doesn't refer to Majora's presence
Click to expand...
It's cursed guise, not dark guise.

This is the quote:

"Everyone's personal life has taken a turn for the worse, and it is all because of the mischief spread by the Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask and the influence his cursed guise has on the moon, the heavens, space and time."

It literally ******* states that because of the mischief that Skull Kid has spread when cursed and possessed by the mask, that the world (Termina) is a worse place for the people who live within that world because of him (Skull Kid).

The context of the quote leans toward what I am saying, is what is actually accurate.

The quote is being metaphorical when it describes its location (the heavens, space and time), but the "influnece" that is mention in the quote refers to Skull Kid's "presence' on the world and the people living on said world.

Not that he is literally controlling all of time and space.
 
I want you to counter and address these 3 points as you have not and it's getting really repetitive

1.Heavens has been used to describe the sky in Zelda far more than the Distant Nebula so why should we assume it's the distant Nebula? Easy we don't.We should honestly disregard the use of Heavens here as it the only vague part of the quote as it's merely an assumption that is plausible(which is also the main argument against the 3-A Triforce something you agree with)

2.Yeah Majora's metaphorical presence was felt across Termina but the quote is refering to Majora's powers as he used his power to bring the moon into Termina and is also affecting the sky and Time and Space for that matter.This is clearly not his metaphorical presence as his metaphorical presence wouldn't affect Time and Space along with the Moon for that matter

3.Why shouldn't the quote be taken seriously?just because you view it as metaphorical and flowery doesn't mean it is provide reasonings.Quotes like these are foundations for several upgrades your virewpoint in the quote doesn't debunk it.


I'm waiting for the others to join in and give their input as they all agreed with this and your seemingly trying so hard to formulate an argument against this which has no substance and which I have been debunking,Unless you can address and prove these points this argument should end.
 
You are being facetious, I have countered every argument you have given me, you are just saying I haven't:

1. I literally wrote this in my second to last comment, this is me adressing this point:

"And maybe because Majora's Mask is a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time? The game that states the GG live in the Heavens. And that all examples of "the heavens" being a place in the sky or an expression are from years later and aren't corroborated by any place or expression in Majora's Mask makes me think my assumption is possible.

And Majora's power not being able to exceed the GG is literally my point in mentioning that taking the quote literally is most likely incorrect. And again, this isn't the part of my argument that is important.

The point of my argument that is important is saying the quote you are using as the basis of your upgrade is unfounded within the events of the game and that it should be taken metaphorically, not literally."


2. This is the quote:

"Everyone's personal life has taken a turn for the worse, and it is all because of the mischief spread by the Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask and the influence his cursed guise has on the moon, the heavens, space and time."

Nothing in this quote states that it is talking about Majora's powers.

If you look at the context in this quote, as I bolded and explained in both this comment and my last comment, what the quote means by "influence" is Majora's presence within the world of Termina because of all the misery the Skull Kid (possessed by Majora's Mask) has caused for the people of Termina - it is not referring to the mask's magical powers, nothing proves this.

Which again, supports my argument.


3. As I already stated, the context of quote doesn't refer to Majora's powers whatsoever.

And as I stated previously in an earlier comment, you're the one presenting the argument and upgrade, the burden of proof is on you to showcase that your argument isn't flawed, not the other way around.

This is literally a logical fallacy, it's even on our page, here.

"3. Burden of proof fallacy This is when someone attempts to make someone else prove a claim when the burden of proof is really on them to prove it. The burden of proof is always on the positive claim, and the person who makes the claim."


My question was, "Why shouldn't this quote be taken metaphorically instead of literally?".

You can't respond with, "Prove that this quote isn't literal then?"

You need to actually prove that the quote is being literal and is referring to Majora's powers despite the evidence that I have provided of that not being the case. You're making the positve claim, I am making the negative one.

So prove it.


And seriously? Stating something is right because multiple people agree to that something is also a logical fallacy, again they can be found here.

"5. Appeal to popularity

This is when someone claims that if more people think one thing than another thing, then the one supported by the majority is correct.

Example: "The poll in this thread has more votes for character A than character B, so character A wins"."

Just because a few people agreed with you, doesn't mean that you are right. There are people in this world that think that Earth is flat, that doesn't mean that it is.


You haven't debunked my argument at all. You are either focusing on the part of my argument that doesn't matter or are using logical fallacies as a rebuttal, and therefore your rebuttal has no weight.

The only thing I agree with you on is that this argument should end.
 
Okay, I actually do remember one thing; Termina definitely existed before Skull Kid put on the Majora's Mask given Tatl and Tail and Skull Kid's backstory. And there was also the Bombers once let Skull Kid be a Bomber until he played tricks on people instead of helping people. However, if there's context that Majora created Termina well before he possessed Skull Kid, that could work.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Okay, I actually do remember one thing; Termina definitely existed before Skull Kid put on the Majora's Mask given Tatl and Tail and Skull Kid's backstory. And there was also the Bombers once let Skull Kid be a Bomber until he played tricks on people instead of helping people. However, if there's context that Majora created Termina well before he possessed Skull Kid, that could work.
Click to expand...
Majora was in possession of the Happy Mask Salesmen before it was in Skull Kid's hands, and the mask was completely harmless in his presence.

Further proof that the Happy Masksalesman is the true God of Zelda


The quote also states this:

"When the Skull Kid steals Majora's Mask from a traveling mask salesman, the combination of the Skull Kid's burdened heart and the evil magic within Majora's Mask transforms the world into the land of Termina. Termina is a parallel world with its own distinct culture, which is perhaps influenced by Majora's ancient tribe. This land is also inhabited by races and people similar to those found in Hyrule, which were constructed from the Skull Kid's memories and delusions."

Which means that the Skull Kid's delusions are the thing that create Termina, which isn't accurate.
 
I see, then it sounds like he warped Termina rather than created it, which warping something still needs more context.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I see, then it sounds like he warped Termina rather than created it, which warping something still needs more context.
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I also remembered that at the ending of the game. Here.

You see Link in the Lost Woods with the Mirror Shield which orignated from Termina. Meaning that this object originating from a dream is, in fact, real even after the dream has ended.


Further proof that this retcon from the HE is absolute nonsense.
 
"And maybe because Majora's Mask is a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time? The game that states the GG live in the Heavens. And that all examples of "the heavens" being a place in the sky or an expression are from years later and aren't corroborated by any place or expression in Majora's Mask makes me think my assumption is possible. ''

Ok so? that's still a massive assumption with no factual basis other than the fact that it is plausible.You ignored that you can literally state that Heavens could also mean sky and honestly if they meant the Distant Nebula and the GG why haven't they been mentioned at all in game?This part of your argument is vastly flawed as your contradicting


"Everyone's personal life has taken a turn for the worse, and it is all because of the mischief spread by the Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask and the influence his cursed guise has on the moon, the heavens, space and time."

Nothing in this quote states that it is talking about Majora's powers.

If you look at the context in this quote, as I bolded and explained in both this comment and my last comment, what the quote means by "influence" is Majora's presence within the world of Termina because of all the misery the Skull Kid (possessed by Majora's Mask) has caused for the people of Termina - it is not referring to the mask's magical powers, nothing proves this.

Which again, supports my argument.

So Majora's evil influence affected the Moon,Time and Space and the Distant Nebula in your eyes?Really? Where is it shown that his fear and influence is across Time and Space when it's talking about Majora's mischief and how does he preform his mischief obviously with his power and going by your logic the GG would feel influence and fear from Majora.

"So prove it"

Fine,Again it's talking about Majora's mischief which he performs with his power not his presence so it's obviously referring to his power and it's so clear that this is the case

You forget that this site is a democracy and that the more support a CRT has the more likely its will be accepted.Until unproven which again I vastly dissagree with

I'm done responding tonight and won't continue until more people respond in argument,I'm going to sleep
 
Yeah i read the thread and i'll have to agree with Warren. The upgrade seems like a big stretch.
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
Ok so? that's still a massive assumption with no factual basis other than the fact that it is plausible.You ignored that you can literally state that Heavens could also mean sky and honestly if they meant the Distant Nebula and the GG why haven't they been mentioned at all in game?This part of your argument is vastly flawed as your contradicting

So Majora's evil influence affected the Moon,Time and Space and the Distant Nebula in your eyes?Really? Where is it shown that his fear and influence is across Time and Space when it's talking about Majora's mischief and how does he preform his mischief obviously with his power and going by your logic the GG would feel influence and fear from Majora.

Fine,Again it's talking about Majora's mischief which he performs with his power not his presence so it's obviously referring to his power and it's so clear that this is the case

You forget that this site is a democracy and that the more support a CRT has the more likely its will be accepted.Until unproven which again I vastly dissagree with

I'm done responding tonight and won't continue until more people respond in argument,I'm going to sleep
Click to expand...
Nothing here is contradicting, but again, this part of my argument doesn't matter. Stop focusing on it.


The problem here is that you are taking the words, "Time and Space" literally - guess what? The words aren't being used in a literal sense in this context for reasons I've explained ad nauseam.

I'll explain it once more. This is the quote:

"Everyone's personal life has taken a turn for the worse, and it is all because of the mischief spread by the Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask and the influence his cursed guise has on the moon, the heavens, space and time."

The quote literally states that because of the mischief caused by the Skull Kid possessed by Majora's Mask, everyone's personal lives were affected for the worse.

That everyone's lives were turned for the worse because of Skull Kid's guise, his very being or presence is what is causing the strife and misery of the people of Termina.

By "the moon, the heavens, space and time", it is referring to the location or setting of the game - Termina, not the space-time continuum. Since the people of Termina are the ones who were being affected by Majora's current guise, not all of Space-Time as nothing proves this - that's why I keep saying you need more proof of such supproting your arguement, as it is a massive stretch otherwise.

Nothing in this quote is referring to the mask's power affecting space and time. You are taking a metaphorical description literally, which is your error.


And what? Following a logical fallacy as the reasoning that you are right and I am wrong, is preforming a logical fallacy - it isn't renouncing the democracy of this site, don't be ridiculous.

By this logic, then you can't refute any claims that have been agreed on previously, even if they were agreed on under false pretenses. This stops change, debate, and evolution and promotes stagnation.

For example, that's like saying the Triforce can't ever be 3-A because it was agreed on in the past that it wasn't. Even if new information is brought up for it. Which is absurd.


Anyways, have a goodnight sleep.
 
I think that Warren Valion makes sense.

If you need further input you can ask the staff members listed in The Legend of Zelda verse page to comment here.
 
I will just say here that the heavens that the guide is referring to is this: https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Chamber_of_Giants

Anyway, Hyrule Encyclopedia more says that Majora warped all of Termina, not created it, so it doesn't contradict the scene where Skull Kid meets the fairy Though I still find that strange to happen in Termina as Skull Kid explicitly comes from the Lost Woods and stole Majora's Mask there, and yet he appears in Termina chronologically between these two moments *shrugs*. I honestly don't see how the statement about Majora messing with time and space would ever be not legit as it's extremely explicit and meant to be taken literally.

"By "the moon, the heavens, space and time", it is referring to the location or setting of the game - Termina, not the space-time continuum. Since the people of Termina are the ones who were being affected by Majora's current guise, not all of Space-Time as nothing proves this - that's why I keep saying you need more proof of such supproting your arguement, as it is a massive stretch otherwise."

Yes, because Termina has people on the moon and that can live across time, right? By mischief it's referring to what he has messed up with his power, because that's technically a mischief, at least in Skull Kid's mind.
 
It also does need to be noted that Termina is clearly in a different world than Hyrule; not just a different country but an entirely different planet. It also does have time that works differently than Hyrule; though not enough proof to be a full timeframe, but I think pocket reality containing multiple stars does make sense.
 
^Triforce you wrote this well and agree with this,I think we should focus on 4-A for now and then work up to 3-A,Warren I do agree that Majora creating Termina is a bit contradicting

Sorry if I'm not active as I'm visiting my Grandpa who is unfortunately not feeling to well,sorry In advanced
 
TriforcePower1 said:
I will just say here that the heavens that the guide is referring to is this: https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Chamber_of_GiantsAnyway, Hyrule Encyclopedia more says that Majora warped all of Termina, not created it, so it doesn't contradict the scene where Skull Kid meets the fairy Though I still find that strange to happen in Termina as Skull Kid explicitly comes from the Lost Woods and stole Majora's Mask there, and yet he appears in Termina chronologically between these two moments *shrugs*. I honestly don't see how the statement about Majora messing with time and space would ever be not legit as it's extremely explicit and meant to be taken literally.
"By "the moon, the heavens, space and time", it is referring to the location or setting of the game - Termina, not the space-time continuum. Since the people of Termina are the ones who were being affected by Majora's current guise, not all of Space-Time as nothing proves this - that's why I keep saying you need more proof of such supproting your arguement, as it is a massive stretch otherwise."

Yes, because Termina has people on the moon and that can live across time, right? By mischief it's referring to what he has messed up with his power, because that's technically a mischief, at least in Skull Kid's mind.
Click to expand...
That isn't a "heaven", but again, that point of my argument was irrelevant. Let's move on.


The HE states that Majora completely changed Termina from the Skull Kid's memories. The cutscene shows us that Termina looks exactly the same even before the Skull Kid apparently he apparently changed the place. Not to mention what I said eariler about the Mirror Shield at the end of the game. Skull Kid warping Termina into a dream world is just contradicted throughout the narrative.


The statement wouldn't be seen literally because nothing proves that it is literal or referring to Majora's power. Do you remember this quote with Ganondorf on a Triforce upgrade thread?

"If thou hast a strong desire or dream wish for it.." And in reply the roaring laughter of the brigand leader echoed across Time and Space and even reached the far off land of Hyrule.The name of this King of theives is Ganondorf Dragmire"

This statement was decided as metaphoric, as nothing proves it's literal or actually referring to Ganondorf's power - the same can be said for this quote for Majora's Mask.


Again, this is the quote:

"Everyone's personal life has taken a turn for the worse, and it is all because of the mischief spread by the Skull Kid wearing Majora's Mask and the influence his cursed guise has on the moon, the heavens, space and time."

Again, like Lightning, you are taking this sentiment literal - which it is not.

By mischief, it is referring to the terrible things that Skull Kid has done to the people of Termina, that's why it says that it starts out with talking about everyone's lives are made worse because of Skull Kid. Yes, Majora caused this mischief through the use of his powers, but the quote isn't referring to his powers, but the misery he has caused with them. That's what Majora's "influence" is - it's his misery.

The moon falling down is Majora's biggest act of mischief - it is the action that haunts the people of Termina, the one that brings their men and women to madness and tears.

By "the heavens, space and time" the quote means that Majora has an omnipresent aura of entropy. Majora's presence is felt everywhere in the game, he has touched every part of Termina, and ruined everyone's lives. His touch of misery is omnipresent in the setting of the game - that's what the quote is saying, not that he's presence is omnipresent through all of space and time and that Majora can control all of it to his will or something like that. Again, it's similar to that quote from Ganondorf and the Triforce.
 
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