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Questioning Universal JoJo

TataHakai

TataHakai

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This thread will mainly have to do with the range and statements concerning time based stands and

The Interview

Currently we have characters like Giorno at High 3-A and characters like Dio at Universal range based on this one interview by Araki, but the interview answer is so ambigous that i'm surprised it was ever accepted in the first place, the interview can be found here

"Shibasaki: What is the maximum affected range when time is stopped?

Araki: All the way out into space. Speaking of which, what kind of energy would that be?"

The important part is INTO SPACE, not to the ends or the entire universe, nowhere does Araki say the entire universe is affected by the stands.

Hell i'll even ignore the fact that this question is for "time stop" based stands which isn't what KC does

This by no means is enough justification for Universal range at all, Space starts at 120,000 Miles or 190,000 kilometers according to this , his answer can literally be referring to anywhere from this point to the end of the universe, or anywhere in between, the answer is so ridicilously ambigous.

However we do have a statement about the range of time based stands like Diavolo on his stand page in between chapters, it tells us that the erasure happens across the whole world and that no living being across the world feels it, this is far more specific than "into s
Crimson
pace".


Diavolo's infinite deaths

The other justification for GER's High 3-A is based on:

"as well as putting someone through an infinite cycle of deaths across parallel worlds."

The link is broken but the gist of it essentially is that Giorno reset Diavolo's death to 0, causing him to die an infinite number of times.

I'm nowhere near denying that Diavolo is dying an infinite number of times, this is confirmed both in the manga and GER's stand page
Gerw
However, there is absolutely, and i mean absolutely NO proof that this is happening across parallel worlds, literally not a single statement in the manga or interviews or stand pages tells us that Diavolo is being sent across parallel worlds, all it tells us is that he is dying, his death is being reset and he is dying again.

Hell if we want to go by Giorno's words, Diavolo isn't even within the realms of Reality anymore, for all we know he could've been sent to another realm that only GER is able to send people to where they die forever, there's just not enough information.

Jojos-bizarre-adventure-part-5-vento-aureo-1704789 (1)


So the downgrade should be

Giorno Giovanna: At least Building level+ Physically(For Reasons on his profile at the moment), At least Planet level via Hax/Zero Reset (Negated a time erasure that affected the whole world, but the full extents and limitations of his abilities are unknown)

All Users of time stands to have their Ranges downgraded

Diavolo: Universal to Planetary with time skip (the entire world is affected by his time skip)

Others should be downgraded to their ranges prior to the universal

Dio: Standard melee range, much further with Space Ripper Stingy Eyes | Standard melee range, several meters with the World (Its maximum range is 10 meters, though it weakens the further it strays from DIO), much further with Space Ripper Stingy Eyes and throwing knives, Planetary with Time Stop (The range of time stop extends beyond the exosphere)

Either I missed something crucial or this is a downgrade that should've come a long time ago
1539505953 IMG E1613
 
I'll message most if not all Knowledgeable members of the verse, though if i'm not replying for a couple of hours it's because i'll be at university.
 
1- Araki said "all the way out into Space", "all the way" seems to be indicating the Space as a whole, or in other words, the universe as a whole.

2- "World" can have many meanings, it doesn't necessarily mean "Planet" or "Earth", and on KC's Stand Page it likely refers to "World" as the whole Universe, not only due to the context of the ability, but also it clearly says no life form on the world will experience the erased time, and as shown, the JJBA verse has alien creatures like Mikitaka (Possibly) or the virus from the Stand Arrow.

3- About the infinite death cycle, i agree it isn't related to parallel worlds, but that doesn't change the fact GER can put people on an infinite death cycle, so being it related to parallel worlds or not, it wouldn't affect GER's AP by any means.
 
"1- Araki said "all the way out into Space", "all the way" seems to be indicating the Space as a whole, or in other words, the universe as a whole."

Yes all the way out INTO space, that doesn't mean all the way out to the ends of space, it means out of the stand and all the way out into space, which starts at 190,000 kilometers away from where Dio would be.

Into Definition: "used as a function word to indicate entry, introduction, insertio, superposition, or inclusion"

The quote by araki literally just means that time based stands have a range that enters into space, beyond the exosphere, everything else is guesswork.

"2- "World" can have many meanings, it doesn't necessarily mean "Planet" or "Earth", and on KC's Stand Page it likely refers to "World" as the whole Universe, not only due to the context of the ability, but also it clearly says no life form on the world will experience the erased time, and as shown, the JJBA verse has alien creatures like Mikitaka (Possibly) or the virus from the Stand Arrow."

I agree, which is why you need more evidence than just the word "world", no life form can just be referring to animals or insects since the quote is "No humans or life", not sure why we'd assume this to be about aliens since it fits it being about Planet Earth and that seems more logical. Also what "context" of the ability would mean world = universe exactly?

"3- About the infinite death cycle, i agree it isn't related to parallel worlds, but that doesn't change the fact GER can put people on an infinite death cycle, so being it related to parallel worlds or not, it wouldn't affect GER's AP by any means."

As i said i definitely agree with the infinite death cycle but i'm pretty sure this is used as justification in a note at the bottom of Giorno's page for his range.

"Gold Experience Requiem's ability is centered on nullifying any potential harm towards it and/or its user. Despite not having any destructive capacity in things such as destroying the universe, it was able to completely nullify a universal time erasure worth 10 seconds as well as putting someone through an infinite cycle of deaths across parallel worlds. Hence the current rating for GER's AP, Tier and Range. To get a better understanding of Gold Experience Requiem's ability, see this blog here."
 
This has always bothered me, we justify universal range with something that doesn't say that, when in reality the justification is purely "it affects time, so it must be universal". It really is just that, if we end up that with a downgrade then this is something we absolutely deserve.
 
puccis stand made in heaven sppeed up time acros the universe and when jotaro activated star platinum it canceld made in heaven for those 5 seconds which means it has universal range
 
Can you prove it cancels all time acceleration in the universe and not just the area where Pucci is?
 
Eficiente said:
Can you prove it cancels all time acceleration in the universe and not just the area where Pucci is?
Click to expand...
i have no idea how to post anything on this wiki but you could just read the fight and it would be ilogical to affect only one area around pucci
 
So you are saying MiH still accelerates time while stopped in time? Is this correct? And the range isn't just Planetary anyways.
 
Let's say SP did affect the entirety of time acceleration in the universe

How would this even apply to GER again? Or KC? Or any stand besides Star Platinum and Za Warudo, you can't apply them across the board just because they're all time related stands that's an association fallacy.

But anyways there really is no proof that SP stopped time beyond the area they were in or even the earth.
 
i have no idea how to post anything on this wiki but you could just read the fight and it would be ilogical to affect only one area around pucci

I'm not going to make you the favor of believing you, post your evidence.

Add Photo is used to add photos
 
Eficiente said:
So you are saying MiH still accelerates time while stopped in time? Is this correct? And the range isn't just Planetary anyways.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm asking if that's what you're saying.

"Can you prove it cancels all time acceleration in the universe and not just the area where Pucci is?"

You're saying that MiH accelerates everywhere except the timestopped zone.
 
Correcting myself on PolarKid's initial comment, the time acceleration still goes even in time stopped, there is no reason to say that time stop cancels it.
 
I mean considering the Earth wasn't destroyed by the galaxies being born and destroyed around them is proof that it didn't stop just the Earth.
 
I agree with what was previously stated, "world" can mean something broader than just planet earth. All the way out into space also seems to mean all of space to me.

Now here's another argument, it uses a bit of logic so bare with me:

The first JoJo verse takes place in our world as evident of the real world geography mentioned and displayed, celebrities names come up every now and then, etc etc. It's safe to assume they perform activites identical if not similar to what we would perform. That includes monitoring space and satelites.

If someone like DIO stopped time and his range of influence stopped short at the beginning of "space", scientists on earth would definitely notice and catch on. We have satelites installed with atomic clocks, if they suddenly jumped and de-synced on account of his timestop we would know that time is literally stopping. Repeatedly.

Knowing that time is stopping would be a groundbreaking news phenomenon, and you think we would see that brought up in JoJo. Not only that but I am sure there are several other major consequences that we would have as a result of DIOs timestop only affecting earth.

I just don't see it happening in a world similar to our own without us noticing. Of course all of these problems are circumvented if DIO's range was spread across the entire universe.
 
Time stopping in a certain radius around you doesn't make sense either. What happens if an object enters said radius while time is stopped, do they immediately freeze? What if they stick one arm in, is that arm frozen in space and time? What if the cutoff happends to be half your body, then are you half frozen in time? Would I be able to see DIO and Jotaro moving in the bubble from the outside?

Time stop feels like an all or nothing ability, stopping time in an area around you is illogical to me and its bonkers people are even considering it. If your ability is to stop time, then by default it should be assumed you stop time in general, not the time around you - that doesn't make sense.
 
HierophantDeluxe said:
scientists on earth would definitely notice and catch on.
Click to expand...
I quoted this but it goes to all similar arguments; This is not enough.
 
Right, DIO's ability is confined to just earth, not the GPS satelites that orbit it. If that were true then it would immediately desync and everyone would die.
 
My biggest problems with the non-universal downplay:

- Stopping time by definition should mean ALL time by default, not time only around DIO or Jotaro (as if that makes sense).

- Large scale catastrophies on account of earth freezing in place within the solar system, scientists including the ones at Speedwagon Foundation should have caught on and told Jotaro "uhh hey, stop doing that your ******* everyone over" but he goes on to spam it in DiU and SO.

- Araki's words can still be interpreted to mean universal.
 
@Hierophant

Unfortunately, localized timestops do exist in fiction, even though I highly doubt it's the case here. Out of the top of my head, I can think of the timestop placed at the Kingdom of Hyrule in Wind Waker. But those are particular case, as it's explicitly stated to be localized and it's literally sealed of the world.

I agree with you that in a realistic verse, something as stopping time within a certain radius would easily be noted. And Araki really likes to showcase how powers can affect the world. Just remember that half of the Made in Heaven arc was Araki showing how everyone was affected by the time acceleration. If time stops randomly happened and no one realized it, it's probably because it covers the universe. Maybe if his timestop had been, like, building sized or something like that, @Tata you'd have a point, but the fact that we know it reaches AT LEAST outer space means that people and scientists would 100% realize it. Unless, obviously it were universal.
 
I don't think that's how we judge other verses with time abilities, we go by what they can do. Like, idk, MCU Dr Strange.
 
I wouldn't into the scientifical/realistic department, because fiction suffers a lot from it:

Realistically, if I were to create a wormhole in my room, the wormhole would seem like it's moving away: that's because of the Earth's rotation, which wouldn't affect it.

Same thing with localized time-stop: if I use time-stop on a specific place, the Earth would still move, and the time-stopped area wouldn't.

The issue? Well, I've never seen cases like those in fiction.
 
This downgrade is absolute unlogic and I vehemently disagree. A planetary timestop makes no sense as:

1. It would change the map of space humongously

2. The consequence of the above would mean that the effect of gravity on earth from stuff elsewhere in the universe will drastically change, or at least to a noticeable level.

3. The tide cycle would change due to position of the moon being elsewhere.

4. The time will not make sense due to celestial bodies not being where they're supposed to.

And there's much more reasons why time stop being limited range makes no sense.
 
This Also bothers me, its more like Hax, i dont think putting someone to an infinite death loop gives you AP actually, Its more like Hax, in fact, Casualty manipulation, its justification is that he negated the time skip, which is universal un range.

First: It randomly assumes that the time skip is infinite un range, universal=/=infinite.

2nd: negating a time skip isnt AP, seems like power nullification (i dont remember if It was via Zero reset).

High 3-A? No, It shouldnt have randomly High 3-A AP, the justification doesnt seem to be actually AP.
 
I mean, in a lot of verses, localized timestops make sense. Zelda has localized timestops outside of that one, and Fairy Tail does, too iirc. We cannot consider timestops to be universal as a standard assumption. But in this case?

1. Araki's words can still be interpreted as being universal (heck, I'd bet that's what he meant)

2. This is a IRL based verse. Had the timestop only stop time in, like, a building radius, yes, that would something that would easily go unnoticed. But we've just got confirmation of a timestop that reaches outer space. Something like this wouldn't go unnoticed by scientists.

3. Araki like to show how his characters time based abilities. Araki has shown more than once that he constantly tries to show how his powers affect people. Again, the MiH arc is half about how the time acceleration is affecting the people. We even see scientists mentioning nuclear clocks, to cry out loud.

All of these things together should be enough in my opinion to show that the timestop is universal.
 
You guys are all assuming Araki would even apply the physical affects of a planetary time stop/time skip across the solar system or universe

We have tons of series where characters do similar things without ruining the solar system because Nigh every author doesn't pay attention to those kind of things

I mean based on that Logic Nigh every continental or higher attack should automatically destroy all life on the planet based on the after effects of such an explosion or attack, but it doesn't, because Authors don't pay attention to those kind of things like i said

" what is your evidence that it's limited to the area around Jotaro and DIO only?"

That's literally not how it works, if YOU say the range is universal then it's up to you to prove it, not for us to disprove something which doesn't even exist in the first place.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
@Tata The problem is that Araki does care. Again, the entire Made in Heaven arc proves it.
Click to expand...
It proves nothing as Made in Heaven had to affect the universe. Even then only that Stand was said to affect all the universe, which even has a justification.
 
Just to contribute, Made in Heaven is supposed to basically speed up the totality of everything while leaving the perceptions of all living organisms behind, so while they are perceiving with the same speed, everything to every person seems like it's going at a much, much, much faster rate. This applies even to the time stop of Jotaro, which still works but the time limit is done before he can even realize it.

Even the sun starts spinning too fast for people, so it's obviously not just the Earth. And the whole plan related to Made in Heaven was that as the entire universe accelerates, it hits a "vanishing point" and then a new universe springs up. So... yes, this is kinda impossible unless the spee dup is universal.
 
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