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D&D Adventurer WIP Blog Pt. IV

So continued from the last thread, should Orcus and Demogorgo get a Mystara key? This would give them a High 2-A and a Low 1-C rating, but it would also mean we're mixing two contradictory canons sorta hard at the same time.
 
Assuming they were rated as Immortals there, then... I suppose yeah, honestly, even if it is contradictory with their other ratings.
 
As for the regen thing, Orcus seems to have a special place in the hearts of Wizards of the Coast and has a special form of Regen that allows him to kinda neg things that keep him down, even things like threatening Sigil, which would normally lead to a "Your character sheet is now in pieces" moment.
 
Yeah they were rated as Immortals, albiet more high-tier Immortals than the God Tiers like Thanatos: 1, 2, 3
 
Then I say yeah, if they're the same characters back then they should have the tiers despite being heavily contradicted by their other settings' counterparts
 
For reference it goes "Initiate -> Temporal -> Celestial -> Empyreal -> Eternal -> Hierarch". Both Mystara Demogorgon and Orcus belong to the Eternal section of the Immortal power levels
 
OH WAIT. I just realized, one of the Immortals actually becomes an Old One after an adventure. We can just use him for the tier's basis.
 
Yeah go for it, make his page.
 
So far, yeah, looks fine.

looks pretty rad you might say
 
The second strongest person in the verse atm
 
Noooooo. I forgot an "s" in dungeons. Whyyyyy
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Noooooo. I forgot an "s" in dungeons. Whyyyyy
Click to expand...
Asking Prom about it real quick

EDIT: Fixed.
 
I'll ask Azzy to replace those links with these two when he gets the chance (and to fix a linking error with the the High 1-B justification): 1 2

Also, before I go to sleep, shouldn't we edit the power summary now? Its not wrong persay, but it is a bit outdated for the verse.
 
As in on the verse page? I can update it if you like.
 
Yeah I noticed that there's some issues since it hasn't seemingly been updated since that ancient Vecna CRT that nerfed all Lesser/Intermediate Gods to 2-C and left the Greater Gods with Mystra scaling. I'll the list the stuff I find to be questionable/incorrect

D&D features many different pantheons of deities, some vastly above Vecna, who, at his most powerful, could damage the entire infinite D&D multiverse.

There's no normal god above Greater God Vecna. This is seemingly a left over when everyone incorrectly scaled to a 2-A Lesser God Vecna

All these deities are locked in an eternal stalemate with each other, and yet the Lady of Pain is above the rest of the pantheon. Ao the overgod is transcendent over the entirety of one of these pantheons, ruling over the gods of Abeir-Toril and having created its crystal sphere.

The wording here seems wrong. The various gods don't all belong to the FR pantheons and the LOP isn't part of any pantheon really

Elder evils and primordials are similarly powerful, and the strongest are capable of defeating gods outright.

EEs can beat gods but that's more hax based rather than strength based after the large CRT about them

Dragons and larger monsters are also one of the chief threats of the setting, with the stronger ones possessing Town-level attacks and potentially planetary-scale reality warping

Should probably be updated to Small City level

The verse's power tops out at High Multiverse level+ with Ao and the High God, and The Luminous Being is likely transcendent over an outerversal realm, making it the strongest Hasbro verse.

This either needs updating with the Immortals or it should better clarify Lumi's power imo.
 
working on re-writing the power of the verse section.
 
So I've been meaning to ask two things

  • What exactly is your reasoning for 2-A mindhax for people like Malcanthet. If ita range then I get it, but 2-A mind hax sounds more like a scale sorta thing.
  • What's the reasoning for Type 8 Atropus? I remember the Negative Energy Plane being connected to him, but nothing that suggest that it's immortal due to that to my memory.
 
Nah, 2-A just means 4-D (as per being a Demon Lord + working on Demon Lords) and a question of how far you can use it on. Simple as that.

This. Atropus devours energy to replace what it gave, but has it instantly obliterated by the Negative Energy that "constitutes its existence". It suspects that when all life in the multiverse is dead, it too will die.

Regardless, looking through Atropus' stuff. Says he can absorb souls, which I assume is similar to Atropals.
 
Mind had makes more sense then.

For Atropus it believes that by killing all mortals, the gods will die. If the gods die, the multiverse can no longer exist since it's concepts will stop working. So it's not the Negative Energy Plane destroying the multiverse, but Atropus killing all mortal life which causes a chain reaction of destruction.

As for type 8 I'm not sure really. Like, various undead such as zombies are connected to the NE Plane and draw their unlife from it. But they can still be destroyed. I agree that it gives it undead immorality, but I'm unsure if it equals type 8.
 
Atropus' statements make him a bit different to other undead who are merely infused with Necrotic Energy. He's directly connected to it.
 
Yeah he's got a direct connection with it, but I don't know if it translates to type 8 like with Demon Lords. He could have it, but I think "possibly type 8" would make less assumptions.
 
Fair enough, I s'pose. The implications are there to some extent. I'll change it.
 
Good job on all the new profiles by the way. We should probably make a Mystra profile next. Actually we could work on a general pantheon thing. Like "Greyhawk, Greek, Egyptian, Norse, Forgotten Realms". Although we may wanna finish up the major Archdevils and Demon Lords first I guess.
 
Yeah I've been trying to work through minor characters that players are more likely to encounter. After Princes of the Apocalypse I'm planning on Temple of Elemental Evil just to add notable followers of Imix.
 
Man I wish the Celtic Gods got updated art at some point. As of now all they got is ye-old 1e tiny art.
 
Don't have a ton of time today, but I figured I'd bring up that apparently, CR 21 actually is the start of "epic" enemies. The Chichimec is CR 21 and explicitly an epic encounter. I feel like this should either lower our epic barrier from CR 22 to CR 21, or make CR 21 "At least 6-C, likely 6-B". Whatever you guys think is best. Edit: The Mu Spore is also considered epic. Meanwhile, something like the behemoth eagle (CR 18) or behemoth gorilla (CR 19) doesn't have epic damage, they just seem to have relatively simple epic feats (so basically fodder compared to the rest of the stuff in the book). I feel like this puts CR 21 as an appropriate place to start scaling to 6-B stuff.

Also, is there a lore reason the Phane scales to the Phaetho? The phane is CR 25 while the phaethon is CR 34, so in game terms they definitely aren't comparable. From rules, the phane seems like it should be "At least 6-B", unless there's a lore tidbit stating it's comparable to the phaethon.

This third thing is more minor, but should we make a note that Kezef the Chaos Hound's divine power null seems a bit weaker than Zargon's? Zargon fought off an entire pantheon (which is insane), while Kezef was cornered and imprisoned by a not fully described alliance of gods (contained at least Gond, Tyr, and Mystra). He still ripped off Tyr's hand, a great feat for just how strong he is against divine powers, but he doesn't seem quite as effective against them as someone like Zargon, as Mask was able to turn the tides against Kezef after acquiring a special blade from Mystra.
 
For the Phane I believe the scaling is just scaling one Abomination to another since they're all considered similarly dangerous and the news of one being released or freed from their imprisonment can cause entire planes to be on high alert. But if others are fine with "At least 6-B" or "6-B, possibly High 6-A" I won't mind.

For the Chaos Hound he was tricked into imprisonment to my understanding. He had an unbreakable chain placed on him and dozens of magic enchaments placed to prevent his escape. Zargon fought the pantheon in pitched combat however, which wouldn't give them time to prep a containment option.

But ultimately you're correct that he's just worse feat wise. He should still have 2-A~ power null considering he can still nullify Greater God's powers, but it's probably not as good as Zargon's.
 
I canaccept CR 21 being At least 6-C, likely 6-B. I preferred to leave 21 ambiguous because it is the bottom rung of epic level stuff.

Phane is High 6-A via being an Abomination, I thought? I suppose we could scale it to typical Epic level encounters if need be.

Kezef got tricked- his weakness was more being not-very-clever.
 
I think "At least 6-C, likely 6-B" is fine for CR 21.

Maybe we could scale the Phane to "At least 6-B (CR 25 epic level encounter), possibly higher (might be comparable to the Phaethon, but uncertain)". I just think that in the Phane's case, it may not just be as dangerous as it is due purely to power (6-B is still pretty extreme power, though), but also because of how dangerous its main powerset is. It has the ability to stop time, siphon the lifespan of things that it has stopped within time, summon a duplicate of its enemies, regress time, passively nullify actions of anyone trying to attack it up close if they fail to resist it, etc. The Phaethon is much more of a big monster that runs around lighting planets on fire. Its powerset is much more focused on pure destruction, while the Phane can ruin a world's history all while no one is even guaranteed to be able to touch it.

Why is "being not-very-clever" not under his weaknesses instead of arrogance? But seriously, his divine power null is obviously still extremely good, but the fact he even had to flee in the first place, or retreat from Mask when he got a cool new sword, makes it seem not quite as essentially limitless as horny ma who basically told a whole pantheon to "come and 'ave a go if you think you're 'ard enough". Otherwise Kezef probably could have just fought off the deities that were coming after him. Unless he just made a truly, terribly, profoundly awful call when he had pretty much every other option, but I'd doubt that for a being who has intelligence at least comparable to that of gifted humanoids. It's clear all Elder Evils share this divine power null, but it just seems like Zargon's may be a bit better than most of the others.
 
Actually it seems like the reason the Chaos Hound stopped trying to kill the Mask is because he got a sword that can somehow kill/counter him.

Tang did not guess that the intruder was Mask. Nor did the God of Thieves sense Prince Tang's wakefulness; the Shadowlord was consumed by thoughts of the chien. Even through the scabbard, Mystra's magic radiated off the blade so strongly that it nearly blinded him. This made the thieving god more suspicious than ever, for he had known the instant he heard the guildmaster's prayer that the sword was bait in a trap. Still, he had come. A weapon that could keep the Chaos Hound at bay ― or kill him ― was worth any risk.

Later on the sword seems to instant kill a wolf as soon as it gets within its magic range. So the mask just got a sword of "Kill all dog-like creatures within x range".

Kezef's plaintive howl sounded again in the distance. The Shadowlord shuddered, imagining what would happen if the hound's poison-crusted fangs ever sank into his tenebrous flesh. He reached into his cloak and withdrew a piece of raw venison, and this he tossed into a dark corner. Then he took a half-starved wolf pup from his other pocket and set her on the floor to see if the sword's magic would prevent the beast from finding her meal.

The pup looked around the dark room, then touched her nose to the cold marble and fell over dead.

Mask nearly screamed his delight, for the weapon was more powerful than he had hoped: it had killed the wolf pup without even touching her. All that remained was to find Mystra's trap and disarm it, a task that the sword's blinding aura of magic would render considerably more difficult.

Is it an anti-feat for the Chaos Hound? Sure I guess, but its a one of kind specialized magic weapons that kills (or at least weakens) canines within its magic aura. They even mention that the second the mask loses the sword the Chaos Hound will come back to eat him.

Plus its not like any normal thing was holding him down. It was Gond's chains and Mystra making some super multi-layered undispel-able magic forcefield thing that held him.
 
Probably something like that, yeah. I think "possibly higher" is fine, as it's not like every epic Abomination scales to each other, anyway (Hecatoncheires). Especially since the word "or" is used before "entire planes of existence", meaning not all Abominations cause this panic (still capable of making nations or worlds panic, though).

The weakest of them, Chichimec (CR 21), is likely fine as "At least 6-C, likely 6-B".

Stuff like the Phane (CR 25) and the Anaxim (CR 22) should likely be "At least 6-B, possibly higher".

I think the Atropal (CR 30) and Dream Larva (CR 31) are high enough to scale to the Phaethon (CR 34), though maybe they should have a "Likely" before it?

The Xixecal (CR 36) is actually a bit stronger than the Phaethon.

Infernals are only CR 26, but scale to Tier 2 via lore.

Hecatoncheires (CR 57) scale even higher in Tier 2, and none of the other Abominations would scale to them, anyway.


That minor Kezef revision sounds fine to me, as it's not like it changes the fact he has 2-A divine power null. It's just not presented as quite as impressive as Zargon's.
 
So before I make the edits, should the Atropal be "Likely High 6-A" or something like "At least 6-B, likely High 6-A".
 
I personally think just "Likely High 6-A" is fine, as I feel that reaching CR 30 actually justifies that. But I suppose either works.

Though for another time, this may raise the question of what to do with the Tarrasque, who has jumped 10 whole CR since its inception, and is now one of only two CR 30 (the new max) monsters currently in 5e.
 
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