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Sonic CRT again

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Zamasu_Chan

Zamasu_Chan

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So the original OP was rejected so I'm updating it.

First off I'll start with the Egg Salamander. I think its rating should be low 2-C likely 2-C. Draining emeralds technically shouldn't be too much of a feat and it was only stated to be able to create a dimension. The 2-C stuff comes from a hypothetical method of creating those dimensions by possible merging them, there's also the scaling of course but Egg Salamander would be baseline.

Next is the Egg Wizard and this'll be quick. The Egg Wizard is the most straight forward Sonic the Hedgehog antagonist when it comes to scaling. He has control over Sonic and Blaze's parallel worlds and possibly even more. Bare minimum baseline.

Next is the 4-A stuff. Why?! This tier shouldn't exist for many reasons and kinda messes up scaling. The FEB was the only weapon that was ever shown to destroy stars to the point where Eggman was bragging his ass off because of what his new toy can do. Like Dark Drago said, we don't if Eggman had preparations and he's mostly seeking the emeralds for hax not AP. Even if it was just shear AP he'd probably be thinking about the tier 2 stuff. Besides why would all of his weapons be 4-A? That would just shit all over the relevance of the FEB. 4-A is an unnecessary, selective, redundant, one time only, out of place tier that doesn't have to be on every character.

There are some other things I want to go over about the 2-C ratings but it was to be discussed in the following link I'll post.
 
I can only skim through this. While it will likely turn into a war zone soon, the Solaris downgrade seems based on just word interpretation, but I agree with downgrading the low multiversal characters.
 
Solaris:

Again with this? Stop using that "rends the fabric of the universe" scan to claim that Solaris was only threatening one universe. If I said I have to evacuate before a flood destroys my house, that doesn't mean only my house and nothing else would be destroyed by it. Alongside Eggman's statements of Solaris consuming timelines and dimensions, the guidebook further states that Solaris "has the power to destroy time and space itself." Each timeline and dimension of course consists of time and space. Put two and two together and Solaris is 2-C. As for your explanation that the timelines are all in the same universe, it sounds more like you're trying to force your own headcanon into it.

-"Why are three super forms needed to fight Solaris." -They all need to have 2-C AP to damage him, and the core isn't unfathomably weaker than his body.

Time Eater:

Easy one to debunk. Before the Time Eater fight, the mission states to beat him and "restore this world." World means universe in this context as Tails in the boss fight states that him and the Super Sonics are in different dimensions.

Egg Wizard:

Yeah no this is headcanon, and doesn't make sense as Egg Wizard would still have 2-C durability. The PoTS being far superior to the Chaos and Sol Emeralds is simply contradicted by Super Sonic and Burning Blaze defeating the Egg Wizard.

Egg Salamander:

Causing two universes to merge into each other isn't unquantifiable hax, it's 2-C AP as those universes are being physically moved by the Emeralds' power.

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I disagree for Shadow's reasons though I'm not tryna go back and forth on a Sunday.

I'll stay outta this one and whatever happens happens.
 
> Again with this? Stop using that "rends the fabric of the universe" scan to claim that Solaris was only threatening one universe. If I said I have to evacuate before a flood destroys my house, that doesn't mean only my house and nothing else would be destroyed by it.

This exact situation and circumstance of an argument sounds strangely extremely familiar to me...must be my imagination.
 
Let me get Solaris out of the way because that's the heaviest part imo. I never said that all timelines generally exist in one universe that's stupid. I said that it's taken out of context / worded the wrong way / misinterpreted. Characters literally call the past, present and future different timelines. Are yoo guys seriously gonna ignore this? Mephiles and Shadow call the present and future different timelines even though they're in the same space time continuum. If two of these characters make this mistake, what's stopping Eggman from making the same mistake? That's why I said in SONIC 06 ALONE when they say timelines they mean point in time. That's also why I said it's LIKELY Eggman means Solaris is only destroying the universe.

About Solaris phase 1 he's only destroying the universe nothing more. If you think he's destroying other dimensions then that's complete head canon. Phase 1 was likely anchored by the light shells. Even if you wanna say that phase 2 is 2-C that doesn't mean the light shells have 2-C durability. Solaris phase 1 had to physically transform in order to reach phase 2 and no longer needed the armor. The skin of phase 2 is more durable than the light shells to the point where it's completely impossible to harm. Now the core is definitely waaay inferior to Solaris himself, they couldn't stop his form but his consciousness. Meaning that Solaris is way stronger than them individually.

Like seriously? Is it some sort of trend that Solaris is like the most powerful character in fiction? All this evidence I'm giving and Solaris is supposedly definitely 2-C because of one god damn statement. This character is so over hyped. Destruction of space and time ranges from low 2-C to 2-A.

And please give me actual evidence other than that one statement Eggman made.
 
Destruction of space time actually ranges from low 2-C to High 1-B, space-time doesnt have to be just 4D
 
Different points in time can equate to different timelines, I think you are just being overly nitpicky about the wording.

"If you think he's destroying other dimensions then that's complete head canon."

Bruh, because something that Eggman directly stated in the game is complete headcanon. Also no, the statements Eggman made with the timelines and dimensions were during Phase 1. Solaris has 2-C durability otherwise he wouldn't survive the destruction he would cause.

Yes, they targeted the core to stop his consciousness, not because his core is so much weaker than the rest of his body that it would be in a tier unquantifiably lower.
 
Yes different points in time CAN equate to different timelines, but there's no evidence that any of the characters went to different timelines. Either way this error doesn't make Eggman any more right, it's just a statement that isn't backed up tbh.

No Solaris wasn't destroying other dimensions. If that were the case then Blaze would be in the rift with them, but she was in another dimension. If Solaris would have completely one shot the universe they were in if he was really 2-C. Also the light shells aren't 2-C because that's literally the same form that was only destroying the universe, so there's no evidence it can survive 2-C destruction.

Eggman said that they can't stop his form but they can stop his consciousness. Meaning Solaris is physically superior to them and they have to exploit a weakness.
 
"There's no evidence that the characters went to different timelines."

Except when they outright say there are timelines.

Solaris was going to destroy them. The hedgehogs had to stop him before he did. Don't know why you're trying to deny this when Eggman outright states it.

Yes, that weakness being his consciousness, not the core somehow being ridiculously weaker than the rest of his body.
 
"Except when they outright say there are timelines"

I'm gonna have to stop you right there. This is a very bold claim, it even a dumb one. The whole point of the game is to save the future. If Silver and Mephiles wanted to go to the past why would he go to a different timeline? It wouldn't change anything on his timeline, and the same goes for Mephiles. Why would he run the risk of going to a completely different timeline where Iblis might not exist. Also when Sonic, Tails and Knuckles go to the future, Tail straight up says "How can this be our future?"

You Can't use statements if they're directly contradicted. That's why 2-C Solaris has no weight to it, because of dumbfounded statements that lack feats.
 
None of what you said contradicts there being different timelines in the game. This is again just you being nitpicky about the wording used, and using arguments of personal incredulity.
 
Eggman's Statements about the timelines would be Option 2 in the verse since he is an Extraordinary Genius and so he really unlikely that his statement is invalid about the timelines.
 
Nedge1000 said:
Eggman's Statements about the timelines would be Option 2 in the verse since he is an Extraordinary Genius and so he really unlikely that his statement is invalid about the timelines.
Click to expand...
I do believe that Eggman is definitely option 2. However it's the game's fault for making that timeline mistake in the first place. He may have been stated to do something, but the statement is still flawed and he was only shown to destroy one universe. If the interpretation of points in time = timeline then Solaris was only destroying the universe so far. Even consuming all existing timelines can be low 2-C to 2-A, we were shown how Solaris was gonna do it and that's collapsing each timeline one by one.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Nedge1000 said:
Eggman's Statements about the timelines would be Option 2 in the verse since he is an Extraordinary Genius and so he really unlikely that his statement is invalid about the timelines.
Click to expand...
I do believe that Eggman is definitely option 2. However it's the game's fault for making that timeline mistake in the first place. He may have been stated to do something, but the statement is still flawed and he was only shown to destroy one universe. If the interpretation of points in time = timeline then Solaris was only destroying the universe so far. Even consuming all existing timelines can be low 2-C to 2-A, we were shown how Solaris was gonna do it and that's collapsing each timeline one by one.
Click to expand...
False. Never is it shown that Solaris would do it one by one. Eggman simply stated that time itself would collapse and disappear into nothingness. Then the guidebook states Solaris "has the power to destroy time and space itself" which means the multiverse.

2-C makes far more sense.
 
You are quite literally blinded by Eggman's words it's not even funny.

"Never is it shown that Solaris would do it one by one."

It's right in front of your face because Solaris was only destroying the universe, and it was so long to the point where the team was able to find the chaos emeralds. He was never shown to destroy the multiverse and I already told you why Eggman's statement is flawed.

Destroying time and space does not make you multiversal. Vegeta destroyed the hyperbolic time chamber, Super Buu rips open time stay screaming and Goku destroyed Hit's time space, that doesn't make them 2-B because they can destroy space and time.

At this point you're just finding every little thing to fight against facts while you also deny evidence. Literally your only credible source is because Eggman states, but what I've shown says otherwise. I'm not arguing with you anymore.

I'd also appreciate, more input from others, because Shadow is just wasting my time.
 
"He was never shown to destroy the multiverse."

Because the point is to stop him before he does.

Why are you bringing up Dragon Ball lol? We know that time and space in this context means the multiverse because of Eggman's statement of Solaris consuming timelines and dimensions.

You're not providing evidence against what I'm saying. You are coming up with your own headcanons and assumptions to say that Eggman is somehow wrong and instead Solaris is Low 2-C when the evidence from him and the guidebook points to him being 2-C.
 
@Shadow

1. No multiverse buster has take that long to destroy the universe, that's a fact. We never see any other timelines or dimensions being affected.

2. The Time Eater is stated to destroy space and time itself and he's nod multiverse level.

3. If Mephiles and Shadow (who are like masters of time travel) have the wrong wording for timeline, then Eggman doesn't really have an excuse. Timeline never has its actual definition in Sonic 06. There were 3 different times in the game where a character said timeline: First, when Shadow called the present a different timeline, second, when Mephiles calls the future a different timeline and lastly, when Eggman was talking about Solaris. See what I mean now? At this point we wouldn't really know if Eggman means the universe or multiverse because it's never clear in the game, so it's not head canon.

^Let me give an example. If a fiction has 1000 planet sized pocket dimensions for every solar system, and a character is stated he'll destroy all dimensions that wouldn't make him 2-C if the characters always refer to pocket dimensions as actual dimensions.

Also my sincere apologies for my tone.
 
1) Just saying. We don't see other dimensions/timelines because the focus is on the cast. The goal is to stop Solaris before he destroys everything.

2) Time Eater can erase time and space, but he wasn't stated to destroy all of it like Solaris.

3) Timelines are just other versions of the universe that take place in different time periods. It's not contradictory.

As for dimensions, it's clear that dimensions in Sonic = universes.
 
1. We see the main cast but Blaze, who's in another dimension, is nowhere to be found.

2. The guide book says time and space itself not all of time and space.

3. It's almost common sense that other timelines are different universes. See these quotes below.

Mephiles: To fix this present timeline, you need to change the past.

Silver: Could it be true? If I eliminate that guy, will our world be saved?

Mephiles: I'll send us back in time to the point when the Iblis Trigger was alive.

Mephiles directly contradicts himself. He calls the future a different timeline but then he says to he'll bring them to a different point in time.

At this point you should be extremely suspicious. You can't change the future through a different timeline that makes no sense. There just throwing around words. It can't be a different timeline because it'll be affected by the past. With all this misinterpretation, who knows what Eggman is talking about? It only makes Eggman's statement less credible.
 
Actually I have a question.

So Solaris is supposed to be omnipresent throughout time, existing all throughout it.

And Solaris is currently 2-C because it was going to devour all existing timelines and time would be collapsing into nothingness.

Wouldn't this mean that Solaris is destroying itself essentially?
 
That's just a hot dog, but I have no idea what that has to do with his question.
 
So is no one else going to bring up the fact that timelines have the wrong definition in 06? It's a heavy weight to this.
 
Also if two characters destructively perform a baseline 2-C feat doesn't that make each of them low 2-C? I've been told that more than once so I'm just making sure.
 
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