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Marvel's Level of 2-A

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

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Thanks for the Scans everyone (Hykuu , Shiv , and a lot of other people I couldn't hope to name) I know this is a issue when using some 2-A Marvel entities . I actually hope that 2-A Marvel still is a thing even after the Upgrades.. But regardless I can prove that Marvel scales well above baselline, and likely even infinitely into 2-A :

2-A, possibly High 1-B for the 2-A's feats/scaling done in the series that affect " All realities "

This one will take some explaining. It has a lot to due with the Crossroads of Infinity & other similarly Higher-Dimensional concepts within the 2-A Universe that would effect it's 2-A's , not to mention some 2-A's having some High 1-B feats:

  • Negative Zone is specifically stated as a Alternate Universe . Negative Zone is a reality distinctly stated to be parallel to Earth-616, and it contains the Crossroads of Infinity. Even if the Negative Zone being High 1-B is not accepted.... It was also heavily implied that the Crossroads of Infinity is within the 2-A Multiverse several times, as it can be reached via traveling to other realities within the 2-A Multiverse as shown with the Hyperstorm incident + other such incidents, including the recent comics.
  • Cyberspace was recognized to contain a Infinite-D construct , which the entirety takes place in a Universe within the 2-A Mutliverse.
  • A Comic that is directly after the Crossroads of Infinity thought the 2-A Multiverse as Mathematically Impossible after seeing the Inter council of Realities . This was after seeing the Crossroads and it being High 1-B, as well as some of the rooms being as big as the Multiverse itself... Which would scale it to the Crossroads of old. This would actually make the 2-A Multiverse far above baseline High 1-B .
  • Dr.Strange thought of Franklin as causing all levels of reality to go asunder in Strange Tales . The fact Strange acknowledges the kid's power as this much says a lot . Child Franklin has consistent statements of being capable of destroying the Multiverse
  • Universal (Earth 616) Avatars of Abstracts transcend all realities within the 2-A Multiverse, which should include the High 1-B Crossroads of Infinity. & The Intercouncil of the Multiverse .
  • Universal (Earth 616) Avatar of In-Betweener could effect All Levels of Reality during his fight with Classic Strange, yet Strange only needed the help of Universal Abstracts to stomp him.
  • Abstracts also viewed Ka'dmon with the Nexus (one of the Fallen Stars) as comparable to them
  • Keep in mind Universal In-Betweener was amped with a Infinity Gem when he fought Well-Fed Galactus
  • Cosmic Cubes were described as this powerful several times to be capable of destroying all realities , planes , and dimensions , as well as scaring Universal Avatar In-Betweener. Described as Omni-Dimensional twice.
  • The Nexus embodying all Higher-Dimensions as well as all realities in Countless to Infinite Multiverses
  • Classic Dr.Strange, before he canonically got depowered to Modern Strange, is capable of somewhat competing with Universal Abstract Level entities, and was called a threat to all realities. He was stomped by Mephisto when significantly amped .
  • Mephisto was compared the Cosmic Cube before getting several amps. Even when he had said amps, still was oneshotted by Franklin. It proves Baby / Very Young Franklin Richards >>> Universal Abstracts
  • Universal Phoenix Force was treated as relatively comparable to other Universal Abstract, but they feared her power. Re-Created the M'Krann Crystal, and Phoenix Avatar Rachel fought evenly with Necrom empowered by a High 1-B construct that connected to every level of reality .


This would make it extremely, extremely far into 2-A ( or High 1-B ) if we take into consideration ALL of this. Not to mention the scaling chain involved is pretty enormous, considering we have characters at least transfinite [infinite/larger than infinite] levels of infinity beyond the 2-A's of Marvel :

Scaling chains for 2-As / " 2-As, possibly High 1-Bs "

Lifebringer >= Chaos & Order >>>>>>> Celestials (Ultimates) Adult Franklin Richards ( Helped keep the Multiverse in check before the Revision Wave, created by him, would destroy all realities. Even heavily weakened by that, he was able to fight the Mad Celestials & was destroying them in combat ) >>> Child Franklin Richards ( Even when massively holding back he fought against the Mad Celestials and was having the advantage . Effortlessly Overloaded the Man-Thing with Reality Warping, who held the power of the Nexus , which binds all reality together , which in that story was all the Countless Multiverses . ) >> Hickman's Run Celestials >>>>> Regular Celestials are above CC's by transfinite (larger than infinite according to Marvel itself) levels of infinity . No sold the Infinity Gauntlet & Ultimate Nullifier ) > Fodder 2-A's like Kubik (Doctor Doom usurped Universal Eternity, as well as Thanos when using the Cosmic Cube) >>> Universal Abstracts ( Abstracts such as Scarlet Witch got stomped effortlessly by In-Betweener, who canonically is seen as inconsequential to Universal Eternity ) >>> Scarlet Witch (Fought on equal footing with Lore, who absorbed Tens of Thousaunds of Nexus Beings , which even one can cause all futures across all timelines & divergent timelines in the Multiverse to collapse , as well as canonically fought the Phoenix Force Avatars evenly, who even the weakest amongst them, Phoenix Vulcan, awakening prematurely can cause the Multiverse to collapse upon awakening .... And the Phoenix Avatar was also shown restoring the Multiverse as well in a previous installment. )
 
Maybe if Marvel becomes more haxed with the new revisions than perhaps it would be a noteworthy matchup because everything else is pretty much even.
 
Each new infinity would be a new dimension, and 'ad infinitum' would be infinite higher infinities, each higher infinity being infinitely higher than lower one. So all of past, present and future (all of space and time) combined would be High 1-B unless I am missing something
 
Hmm... Interesting interpretation.

That and the Conceptual Infinity scan could be interpreted as Unfathomable levels of High 1-B. But for the sake of argument this can be used for 2-A as well.
 
There are infinite dimensions & realms in each reality ? Do you have a scan for that... Because that could be used to help upgrade some of the "regular" Low 2-C's of Marvel.
 
Forgot Hykuu... My apologies. I did credit you for the Cosmology thread though.

Myriad Planes & Realms within each reality... That's definitely an 2-B for all the Low 2-C's of Marvel .... So this would also boost the already busted level of Marvel's 2-A's
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Forgot Hykuu... My apologies. I did credit you for the Cosmology thread though.
Myriad Planes & Realms within each reality... That's definitely an 2-B for all the Low 2-C's of Marvel .... So this would also boost the already busted level of Marvel's 2-A's
Click to expand...
would the myriad planes&realms apply to the skyfathers
 
@Shiv I see... Thank you for the info. I'll add it to the post.

@Setsuna tenma If they are in each reality like it is implied , yes it would most definitely affect the Skyfathers and every Low 2-C we have / were suppose to have to 2-B / 2-A (Not as high-end as the 2-A's mentioned above, but would be decently into 2-A) .

Honestly I mean even Scarlet Witch would technically be the lowest on this hierarchy herself, because she fought Lore on even footing (Who absorbed countless Nexus Beings) , and even one Nexus Being being used as a power source can end all futures in all timelines.
 
I am not sure what you wish to accomplish here.
 
Okay. So no revisions then?
 
This thread has evidence for revisions, but that wasn't the point of this thread... So no. No revisions yet. This is more so because I saw that people thought that the Multiverse of Marvel was merely baseline 2-A. I use this to prove essentially otherwise.
 
Okay. I will unfollow this thread and move it to general discussion then.
 
Bump.

@Ant I do plan to give Scarlet Witch a possibly 2-A rating though in the Future using info I put on here... So yeah.= I wanted to go ahead and let you know.
 
Bump. Let me explain this as best as I know how... Via a watered down explanation:

  • Infinite Realities created every moment, each Quantum Reality branching off infinite universes ad-infinitum . This means in a basic way that every reality branches off into a infinite number of realities , and those that branched off does this forever into infinity. Meaning, it will never stop. At bare minimum this is infinitely into 2-A, if not infinite^infinite into 2-A.
  • Universes without limit (implying Infinte/Endless Universes) created via every thought , dream , or creature being bor . This means that any creature, thought, or dream each create a endless/infinite/limitless number of realities by themselves. How long this takes is Unknown. But this drasitcally effects the level of 2-A above by a unfathomable amount.]timelines per each adult [then multiply that at bare minimum , making it 2-B number of timelines per reality, which again boosts the level of 2-A even further beyond .
  • Every decision creates a timeline . Let's assume 1 timeline's one day of Earth [as it was stated every reality as a version of Earth in Marvel multiple times] as a lowball . Firstly I used 35,000 decisions per the average adult. Multiply that x how many adults {used 252,063,800 here as it's the closest to this year of a measurement they have} . This would equal about 882,233.000 , or extremely close to 1 billions timelines created per timeline, which would advance the level of 2-A stupdenously.
  • Innumerable Space-TIme DImensions were created by the Big-Bang of a singular reality . Keep in mind TLT was clearly implying infinite realities due to 'tearing asunder the fabric of infinity' & the fact he was referring to this taking place in one reality . Remember the Multiverse of Marvel was not created by a Big Bang, only the realities. This implies that each universe started out with 2-A timelines within each, which is stupdenously crazy and adds to the level of 2-A even further, and actually makes the Low 2-C's 2-A .
  • There are Countless Multiverses , which may have been confirmed to be "Infinite Multiverses " . This means that each of these Multiverses does similar to the above [as the above scans stated that the Universes do that generally , rather than only a specific Multiverse] , and there are a Countless/Infintie number of them. So yeah...
Assuming that this doesn't hit High 2-A or higher or something.... This would be so stupdenously high level of 2-A unless I use Digimon or SMT throughout the thread it's going to read.... "oneshot" .
 
Some people said you can make a argument for the 2-A feats being High 1-B ( hence the 2-A Multiverse + those who scale to all realities as " 2-A , possibly High 1-B " ) ... So I edited the argument in the OP as well as some crucial evidence for it. I'm out ATM.... So I can't add the scans but I will as soon as I get home.
 
I doubt the high 1-B stuff will be accepted

And I don't think the robots ever stated the plane they were transcending to is contained within cyberspace afaik. I remember that issue a few months ago of ghost rider
 
Worth a try though... Especially considering it makes High 1-B much more consistent as there are realities w/ High 1-B worlds.

Near the end of the comic they were finishing with the ascension using Cyberspace... So it is implied to be Infinite-D.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Worth a try though... Especially considering it makes High 1-B much more consistent as there are realities w/ High 1-B worlds.

Near the end of the comic they were finishing with the ascension using Cyberspace... So it is implied to be Infinite-D.
Click to expand...
Italic text

They never fully completed the ascension, the plane they were ascending to was directly implied to be seperate from cyberspace
 
I am unsure of that... But that isn't the strongest point so debating this will get us nowhere fast.

The only thing we really need to discuss is " would this be inconsistent " or " why would this be rejected ? " ? No. Not really. All realities includes those with those Infinite-D structures shown to be within the 2-A Multiverse, such as the Crossroads of Infinity.

[ If we assume all realities includes the Negative Zone, which contains the Crossroads ] Consistency: Rachel fought Necrom who was empowered by a High 1-B object & stated to be the strongest of Excalibur even after Meggan + Britain fused to become a High 1-B entity capable of fixing the Tower Matrix effortlessly ,many Universal 616 Avatar Abstracts have shown multiple High 1-B feats [ Infinity vs Oblivion , In-Betweener , Etc ] , Cosmic Cubes who have shown superiority to the Universal Abstracts have shown High 1-B feats in the old + new comics , Celestials were shown as > CC twice over , Roma empowering Captain Britain to fight Full Phoenox Force + empowered by two High 1-B objects, Narrator stating that Franklin's power could set the limits of the Multiverse & called Onslaught capable of rewriting all reality after gaining FR's power and bodying Phoenix in her home turf , Roma viewing Celestials as All Powerful when no previous adversary of their was , etcetc. Then convert all the 2-A feats to High 1-B due to the mentioning above.

There would be so much consistency it would not even be humorous.
 
a few feats wouldn't automatically scale the characters to high 1-B

Universal abstracts are far from hyperversal.
 
Bump. Wow. You are not getting whatI am posting here.

Okay.... First off, the "possibly High 1-B" exists for a reason. It isn't "solid" enough for it be plain High 1-B, but it is notable enough for that possibly to be there. It's not just a few feats, there are actually a handful . And it only scales to characters who can destroy all realities or scsles to such characters ... So only the Top to God Tiers would be affected, not the entirety of Marvel . In-fact, it is more of a cosmology statement than a feat ... Which came out before most of the feats in question. You aren't seeing what I'm seeing .

To destroy all realities, you need yo destroy what's within those realities. The Crossroads of Infinity is within the Negative Zone, a reality within the 2-A Multiverse. This was shown cosmology wise well before most of the :destroy all realities feats come in the picture for Marvel, so it being something that appeared out of nowhere isn't true whatsoever and such a fact has been consistently portrayed since the beginning of Marvel

That's just blatantly ignoring what I posted. In-Betweener literally stated he could effect all levels of reality, Ka'dmon was only considered comparable to the Universal Abstracts and Fodder to the Celestials [ Including a Franklin who was only considered on par with the Celestials during that time period was implied to be capable of causing ] all levels of reality to be destroyed ] , Cosmic Cubes could transcend all that there is , even saying that levels of reality are relative , stating Beyonder could end the Cosmography of the Multiverse and gave Rachel the Full Phoenix Force later on .... Which seems to mean Full Phoenix Force = Cosmic Cube ] , Phoenix Avatars fighting a High 1-B power source & some Avatars have shown feats comparable.

You need to prove to me a moment that destroying all of realities wouldn't include what is within them. Prpve that, and I'll erase this and just continue debating with 2-A. If you cannot... It'll prove it is consistent
 
@Setsuna If this goes through yes.

Also worth noting that Strange Tales makes Universal Earth-616 Abstracts being High 1-B even more consistent. The spirit of Ka'dmon [ a High 1-B ] was empowered by the Fallen Stars [ Who embodied the Dream of all levels of reality ] , Men of Lineage [ Two of them, one caused all levels of reality to collapse just by not believing it to be a dream & rejecting it ] & Nexus , all of which the mods involving with judging of those pieces [Azathoth,Sandman,Ant,Matthew] agreed to be a High 1-B showing within Strange Tales and was confirmed to be canon . This means he can store incredible levels of power, on a high into High 1-B scale.

He was only considered by the Abstracts as up to a Universal Avatar after the event [ he ends up in Overspace , which honestly is only for Universal Abstracts... Not Multiversal Ones ] , which seems to imply they believe Ka'dmon w/ Men of Lineage + Nexus + Fallen Stars is = Universal Abstracts.

He was overloaded with power by a subconscious, effortless feat by Child Franklin. This was before he fought the Celestials so his power, without training , was only = to the Celestials at this point. He is stronger than their regular levels when he fought them , but was much weaker and less experienced before then. And the regular Celestials are only dreams of Eternity [ NOT the Mad Celestials, but the Celestials Franklin was compared to before he fought the Mad Celestials were regular Celestials ] .

Oh ... Yeah... Fearing Celestials when they didn't fear Scrier, who was immeasurably superior to Ka'dmon with the Fallen Stars, Men of Lineage. + Nexus Combined, to the point Ka'dmon with said power could create a Avatar that could fight someone empowered by the Nexus . This would also effect Galactus since he's portrayed as sometimes at least comparable to the Universal Abstracts and those who would scale to this [ Fought In-Betweener with Mind Gem , fought Mephisto on even footing who was compared to the Cosmic Cube , and even was stated to match Universal Abstracts at times... Not to mention against the Celestials ]

So... Unless the Crossroads stuff gets hacked up.... It seems just consistent enough to at least consider.
 
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