Dragon Ball Super Canon Discussion

Geekdom101, a credible YouTuber, summarized and explained an interview with Toriyama and Toyotaro a year ago. He makes the claim that the Manga by terms is MORE Canon to Dragon Ball Super than the Anime because of Toriyama's involvement with the Manga and Toyotaro. The DBS Anime works on Toriyama's plot outlines while Toyotaro (Manga) works with the plot outlines and gets feedback and consults with Toriyama himself.

Which would be more credible? A movie made by a producer who used only a summary of a book or a movie made by a producer who consulted with and directed with the original author of the story? The Original Author definitely contributes to actualizing it based on their actual portrayals, so in comparison, Toriyama and Toyotaro (Manga) are more "Canon" or "fact" than the Anime by our standards.

That doesn't mean the Anime is completely Non-Canon, it just signifies that it isn't as accurate to Toriyama/Toyotaro's "DBS" and so what if some Filler or all is not canon? It can be Canon in our hearts, DBS is a fictional story after all so what difference does it make to us if it doesn't fit in or count as a continuity of the other main-episodes.

We can accept Dragon Ball GT, the DBZ Movies (ex. Broly), and Dragon Ball Evolution (though many hate this one), as "canon" to our hearts, but Geekdom101 briefly summarizes and indicates the most prominent messages by Toriyama in this video and if you want more details, you can try searching more videos on this interview.

Dragon ball super, Toriyama wrote all the new movies, and actively works with Toyotaro to create new characters and storylines for super. Toriyama even edits, changes, redraws and rewrites part of the Dragonball super manga if he thinks it isn't quite according to his vision. But overall he leaves it up Toyotaro to make the manga himself. Almost every volume has an interview explaining how they work together. The dragon ball super manga is canon. Toriyama is actively involved with the manga.

The dragon ball super anime uses the same initial basic outline for a story, but they extend the story and make changes, and Toriyama is not involved with the creation of the anime at all besides this. People that assume just because the anime comes out quicker, that makes it more canon, ignoring the interviews that say otherwise. Dragon ball super anime isn't canon, sorry.

If you have compelling evidence that counters this interview that "DBS Anime is more canon" to the Dragon Ball Super Story than Toriyama / Toyotaro's own words, please provide it and give good long reasoning.

As was said before, the "main" canon of DBS is Toriyama's outline, starting from there, Toei and Shueisha adapt that outline, turning then by our standards secundary canon. Other option is that both are main canon in its way, or good, just the common ground between manga and anime is what is canon, any other stuff that they do not share is non-canon.

Af for evidence, you most likely heard about source that date from before the anime start to airing at best, or biased info at worst.

Toriyama also outlines the manga but has more investment and involvement with Toyorato's Manga than Toei's anime adaptation of that same outline. Having "Dragon Ball Super Anime" page in the "Dragon Ball Manga" page is contradictory to your claim when a "Dragon Ball Toei" page is in the works which is where "Dragon Ball Super Toei" should be placed.

If the DBS anime is treated as secondary canon by the wiki standards. Why are there more non-canon profiles from the anime than from the manga's canon which Toriyama takes the liberty to draw himself if something isn't to his standards?

Eh, I would put DBS Anime as sequel of Kai, there's a few thing that do not fit in the original manga (Gregory's existance and Ginyu shenanigans are proof of that); there's also a few thing in the anime that Toriyama didn't weote, and I'm refering to mini arcs, not minor details.

I was using the typical definition: if its an adaptation, its secundary canon. The profiles presented are the ones of the anime cuz people choosed that way.

As Antoniofer said, Toriyama's outline is adapted by both the anime and manga at this point, and as such equally canon, but the anime is far more prominent, so that is what we go by in lack of better options.

^ This. Another less important reason is that when it all started, the manga was only projected as a promotional tool to adapt the anime. Of course it changed over time when we received new information.

Anyway, should we close this thread because this has been sufficiently discussed many times.

I guess this "the anime is far more prominent" is enough reason for me to understand the need of the anime as primary canon source. This can be close and use again if anyone comes here trying to debunk the anime as not canon.

I'll also say that the only thing which comes directly from Toriyama is the basic plot outline which is adapted by Toei and Toyotaro, making them equally canon. Obviously Toyo keeps in touch with Toriyama and asks for his advice on some things, that doesn't mean people at Toei don't do the same. Even the chief of the Dragon Ball Room, Akio Iyoku keeps in touch with Toriyama so I don't see why the writers at Toei won't do the same.

As for the movies, Toriyama handles a more detailed plot and even some character dialogues but the rest of the blanks and the whole battle sequences are done by Toei. All in all, they are all adaptations of Toriyama's script.

Anyway, I'll go ahead and close it.