Potential Aizen/Yhwach/Ichigo Downgrade

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

Oc, so this is primarily starting out as a question that I am curious about...

So, the Mid-End Meteor feat was accepted for Kenpachi, that I know, but the issue I am having is, how does:

Shikai Ichigo

Base Yhwach

Scale above it? Ichigo has no real feats agaisnt anyone in Shikai excpet against Casual SK Yhwach, who casually stomped him and Low-Level SR who are nowhere near a fresh Shikai Kenpachi's Level. In addition to this. Pre-Mimihagi absorbed Yhwach no-sold a Getsuga From him, but that's really it whether it was hax or Reiatsu difference is up in the air (Though I personally say Yhwach was just stronger). Ichigo simply has no feats or statements that scale him to Kenpachi unless we are using the "Transcendant" arguement, saying that Dangai and Aizen scale above everyone no matter what, which I disagree with because if current shikai Ichigo is comparable to Dangai, who was "transcendant", why can everyone sense his Reiatsu ?

With no feats, context or implications, Shikai Ichigo and Base Yhwach are just "Arbitrarily" scaling from him which means neither Aizen nor Dangai scale to Kenpachi Either. (I'm sure even IMade would even agree that without any real evidence backing up the stat boost, they shouldn't scale considering his own arguments in Naruto revisions). If there is valid scaling or feats, then we can disregard this.

______________________________________________________

As for Aizen, how does he scale to Ichigo and from Yhwach's 5-C AP?

SK Yhwach's AP ranges from (Depending on how we go about the the above issue) "At Least High 6-A to 5-C". There is no way to gauge the AP Yhwach used on Aizen. He was portrayed just as casual breaking the chair as he was stomping Shikai Ichigo and Aizen in this very same fight. In addition to this, there are no feats of Aizen standing his ground against Yhwach like Hollow-Merged did or Bankai Ichigo harming him. Nor are there statements by Yhwach supporting Aizen scaling from him like it was for Hollow-Merged or Bankai. So I don't see how Aizen is "Comparable" to Ichigo and scaling to Yhwach's 5-C rating, this seems to have been "Arbitrarily" decided as well.

Nothing Says Aizen has even surpassed Dangai yet tbf. I can agree to EoS Aizen possibly being comparable to Shikai Ichigo, but there is absolutely nothing suggesting he is comparable to Hollow-Merged or Bankai Ichigo.

The_Causality · Oct 18, 2018

A Storm is coming.

Konaguna · Oct 18, 2018

Peter1129 · Oct 18, 2018

From what I know Base Yhwach is logically stronger than Gremmy which was later confirmed in the novel. True Shikai Ichigo had a statement from Yhwach of regaining the power he had when he fought Aizen which is referring to Dangai Ichigo. And Dangai Ichigo should be comparable to Post-Muken Kenpachi who was implied to be transcendent even when he was in base and didn't take off his eyepatch.

Aizen I don't really remember that clearly. You'll have to wait for somebody else to explain that.

Konaguna · Oct 18, 2018

True bankai Ichigo should scale from Mugetsu Ichigo imo

Rin_The_Dragon_Empress · Oct 18, 2018

Base Yhwach killed Yamato. That's reason enough for him to scale.

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

@Peter

What does the Novel specifically say about Yhwach and Gremmy?

The transcendant stuff is shakey and doesn't really scale them to Kenpachi still.

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Base Yhwach killed Yamato. That's reason enough for him to scale.

And when does Base Yama-Jii scale to Shikai Kenpachi?

Rin_The_Dragon_Empress · Oct 18, 2018

Well firstly, Yamato was in Bankai. And he should logically be stronger than Shikai Kenny as the Head Captain of the Soul Society.

Peter1129 · Oct 18, 2018

TheFinalOrder said:
@Peter

What does the Novel specifically say about Yhwach and Gremmy?

The transcendant stuff is shakey and doesn't really scale them to Kenpachi still.

Gremmy Thomeaux. That was the name of the boy who was known as the strongest member of the Sternritter army. It was said that no one could win against him, with the exception of Yhwach

Yeah I also have some problem with the transcendent stuff. Although they would still probably scale for being stronger than Meninas who's potentially on par with Kenpachi.

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

To clear some stuff about that transcendent stuff,to become a transcendent in bleach isn't based on sensing reiatsu and stuff,to become a transcendent in bleach means to become one with your zanpakto here by breaking the absolute limit a shinigami can reach to become one and accord with his or her zanpakto,no shinigami has reached that level even kenpachi haven't come close to that level yet.

Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye · Oct 18, 2018

What does sensing Ichigo's reiatsu have to do with anything? He shouldn't even exist in the human world due to how powerful he is but here he is not killing everyone around him.

As for Aizen he will always scale above all the other captain's unless stated otherwise,That is literally what he is known for his "Reiatsu" in other words power.He has also stated to have gotten stronger just sitting in Muken,Prior to that he was already strong enough to hurt Ichigo woth fragor (burned his arm) and visible damage of his garb was done which is relative to his strength.

So from what i'm seeing here,nothing is getting actually downgraded in terms of scaling chain involving these 3 characters,as they're at the top of food chain.

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

Actually soul king yhwach casual is the 5c,the 6a is just scaling from kenpachi,so his casual is just from moon level to at least baseline planet level if putting the fact that he holds the worlds in bleach in place via his spirit energy casually as he shows no sign of stress doing this.

Konaguna · Oct 18, 2018

Danny1112 said:
Actually soul king yhwach casual is the 5c,the 6a is just scaling from kenpachi,so his casual is just from moon level to at least baseline planet level if putting the fact that he holds the worlds in bleach in place via his spirit energy casually as he shows no sign of stress doing this.

Uhhh pretty sure it's been agreed by majority of people here that the world thing was some natural shit and not really his own power or something

Rin_The_Dragon_Empress · Oct 18, 2018

I think that's actually slowly getting debunked in the Novel but everyone agrees that we need to wait for it to finish before getting into 5-B stuff again.

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

Konaguna said:
Danny1112 said:

Actually soul king yhwach casual is the 5c,the 6a is just scaling from kenpachi,so his casual is just from moon level to at least baseline planet level if putting the fact that he holds the worlds in bleach in place via his spirit energy casually as he shows no sign of stress doing this.

Click to expand...

Uhhh pretty sure it's been agreed by majority of people here that the world thing was some natural shit and not really his own power or something

This has nothing to do with that stuff of yhwach wanting to merge the worlds into one,am talking of the fact that after yhwach gained the powers of soul king his spirit energy/power keeps the worlds from colliding/merging on each other,that's at least baseline planet level or more.And it's a casual thing as yhwach can sleep why doing this.

Konaguna · Oct 18, 2018

I'm pretty sure that this has been debunked numerous times and is a banned topic

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Well firstly, Yamato was in Bankai. And he should logically be stronger than Shikai Kenny as the Head Captain of the Soul Society.

For starters, he wasn't. His bankai was stolen and sealed before Yhwach killed him.

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

Konaguna said:
I'm pretty sure that this has been debunked numerous times and is a banned topic

Again like I said.I speak not of the banned topic,this is an entirely different thing all together, the banned topic is based on the point where yhwach was talking of fusing the world's and stuff, this am not referring to,am referring to the fact that yhwach as a whole,keeps the dimensions and planets from colliding/merging via his power,this was never brought up or discussed in any of the debunked thread or whatsoever.

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

Peter1129 said:
TheFinalOrder said:

@Peter

What does the Novel specifically say about Yhwach and Gremmy?

The transcendant stuff is shakey and doesn't really scale them to Kenpachi still.

Click to expand...

Gremmy Thomeaux. That was the name of the boy who was known as the strongest member of the Sternritter army. It was said that no one could win against him, with the exception of Yhwach
Yeah I also have some problem with the transcendent stuff. Although they would still probably scale for being stronger than Meninas who's potentially on par with Kenpachi.

Well then Yhwach can scale to High 6-A in Base (Not "At Least". It's only stated he can beat Gremmy, yet we don't know if it's casual or with difficulty, etc. So Yhwach shouldn't be "At Least High 6-A".)

Well, this is depending on if the novel is talking about Base Yhwach or Almighty Yhwach which it doesn't specify because it's talking about both Post Mortem. I'll come back to this.

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

Danny1112 said:
To clear some stuff about that transcendent stuff,to become a transcendent in bleach isn't based on sensing reiatsu and stuff,to become a transcendent in bleach means to become one with your zanpakto here by breaking the absolute limit a shinigami can reach to become one and accord with his or her zanpakto,no shinigami has reached that level even kenpachi haven't come close to that level yet.

A byproduct that denotes transcendance in bleach is not having your reiatsu be sensed unless you deliberately lower it. I'm not discussing "How" a character becomes trancendant, what I am saying is Ichigo in True Shikai does not demonstrate hallmarks of being transcendant. That was pretty clear dude....

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

About the aizen stuff again,there is also the fact that aizen was never interested on fighting yhwach,as he kept himself as a bait for yhwach to get more trapped in by the power of his kyoka suigetsu so as for ichigo to kill yhwach off

guard,as he knew ichigo was coming,the dude was literally smiling the whole time,pointing the fact that it was all pact of his plan. And also the part where he wasn't at his full power as mayuri was controlling the rate of his spirit energy

DarkDragonMedeus · Oct 18, 2018

I'm neutral regarding the first point, but I can agree that the "Transcendent" statement is rather iffy. And I do find it strange that weaker versions of Aizen and Ichigo scale to a feat that happened much later, let alone to a feat they never fought directly in those forms. But again, I'm neutral; Kenpachi is a character who doesn't really have a lot of hax, but his raw power is one of the strongest.

But the reason Ichigo was stomped by Yhwach was more so through hax rather than AP, so Ichigo could still scale from Yhwach's strongest. As for Aizen, he is stated to have more Reishi than Ichigo, but Reishi could be measured by multiple things. Not just speed or power, but also various hax abilities as well. Still, I'm neutral regarding whether or not Aizen scales, but leaning towards saying he's still good, but Ichigo as his peak should definitely scale to the throne lifting feat.

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

TheFinalOrder said:
Danny1112 said:

To clear some stuff about that transcendent stuff,to become a transcendent in bleach isn't based on sensing reiatsu and stuff,to become a transcendent in bleach means to become one with your zanpakto here by breaking the absolute limit a shinigami can reach to become one and accord with his or her zanpakto,no shinigami has reached that level even kenpachi haven't come close to that level yet.

Click to expand...

A byproduct that denotes transcendance in bleach is not having your reiatsu be sensed unless you deliberately lower it. I'm not discussing "How" a character becomes trancendant, what I am saying is Ichigo in True Shikai does not demonstrate hallmarks of being transcendant. That was pretty clear dude....

Which is what I explained,you were talking of ichigo not showing a portrayal of being a transcendent because of having his reiatsu being sensed by literally everybody, like I said how you know a transcendent being isn't based on not having being sensed by lower beings or none transcendent being is by breaking the absolute limit a shinigami can reach which is by becoming one with your zanpakto,yhwach said to ichigo that he had gained back that power which he used to defeat aizen before,that's his dangai powers.so using the fact of ichigo having his reiatsu sensed by lower beings doesn't disapprove the fact of him still being a transcendent.

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
What does sensing Ichigo's reiatsu have to do with anything? He shouldn't even exist in the human world due to how powerful he is but here he is not killing everyone around him.

TFO Wrote: "This is why. True Shikai Ichigo isn't transcendant if he is sensed by vastly weaker characters without deliberately lowering his reiatsu, which he hasn't done in the war period. So if he is = Dangai Ichigo yet can still be sensed, being Transcendant doesn't automatically scale you above other Shinigami."

As for Aizen he will always scale above all the other captain's unless stated otherwise,That is literally what he is known for his "Reiatsu" in other words power.He has also stated to have gotten stronger just sitting in Muken,Prior to that he was already strong enough to hurt Ichigo woth fragor (burned his arm) and visible damage of his garb was done which is relative to his strength.

TFO Wrote: "Aizen despite having transcended in his fight with Kisuke, Yoruichi and Isshin was still harmed by them. Being Trascended doesn't mean you can't be harmed by lower being still. His feats are what puts him above the others. And clearly as the manga outlines, while he has gotten stronger, he has no feats to scale him above Kenpachi nor to 5-C Yhwach. No feats, statements, implications, etc. The manga has clearly proved the "Trascendant = Stronger than everything else that's not argument wrong because Shikai Ichigo who is equal to a Trasncendant being is not really trascendant if everyone can sense him, and that is simply a fact."

So from what i'm seeing here,nothing is getting actually downgraded in terms of scaling chain involving these 3 characters,as they're at the top of food chain.

TFO Wrote: "Except this isn't really true as you haven't rerally proven anything. In fact, you're ignoring the manga in favor of your opinion at this point, no offense."

*True Shikai Ichigo can be sensed by non-transcendant People despite being stated to have regained power equivalent to Dangai, whom was trascendant above a trascendant being.

*That proves you don't have to be "Trascendant to be => a Trascendant Being.

*True Shikai Ichigo nor Aizen have feats scaling them Above Kenpachi let alone 5-C Yhwach.

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm neutral regarding the first point, but I can agree that the "Transcendent" statement is rather iffy. And I do find it strange that weaker versions of Aizen and Ichigo scale to a feat that happened much later, let alone to a feat they never fought directly in those forms. But again, I'm neutral; Kenpachi is a character who doesn't really have a lot of hax, but his raw power is one of the strongest.
But the reason Ichigo was stomped by Yhwach was more so through hax rather than AP, so Ichigo could still scale from Yhwach's strongest. As for Aizen, he is stated to have more Reishi than Ichigo, but Reishi could be measured by multiple things. Not just speed or power, but also various hax abilities as well. Still, I'm neutral regarding whether or not Aizen scales, but leaning towards saying he's still good, but Ichigo as his peak should definitely scale to the throne lifting feat.

Yeah no, Hollow Merged and Bankai Scale to 5-C Yhwach. I'm talking about True Shikai Ichigo, whom was compared to Dangai and yet was tsill stomped by Yhwach who was sitting down, casually talking shit and not using the Almighty.

Peter1129 · Oct 18, 2018

That was Post-Soul King Yhwach who was sitting down. Ichigo's Profile seems to have his True Shikai justification being physically held back Almighty Yhwach and knocking him back with Getsuga Tensho.

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

TheFinalOrder said:
DarkDragonMedeus said:

I'm neutral regarding the first point, but I can agree that the "Transcendent" statement is rather iffy. And I do find it strange that weaker versions of Aizen and Ichigo scale to a feat that happened much later, let alone to a feat they never fought directly in those forms. But again, I'm neutral; Kenpachi is a character who doesn't really have a lot of hax, but his raw power is one of the strongest.
But the reason Ichigo was stomped by Yhwach was more so through hax rather than AP, so Ichigo could still scale from Yhwach's strongest. As for Aizen, he is stated to have more Reishi than Ichigo, but Reishi could be measured by multiple things. Not just speed or power, but also various hax abilities as well. Still, I'm neutral regarding whether or not Aizen scales, but leaning towards saying he's still good, but Ichigo as his peak should definitely scale to the throne lifting feat.

Click to expand...

Yeah no, Hollow Merged and Bankai Scale to 5-C Yhwach. I'm talking about True Shikai Ichigo, whom was compared to Dangai and yet was tsill stomped by Yhwach who was sitting down, casually talking shit and not using the Almighty.

True shikai ichigo doesn't scale to soul king yhwach.He scales above kenpachi for being a transcendent being.

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

Danny1112 said:

Again, dude. Aizen has no feats comparable to Hollow-Merged Ichigo nor statements justifying his scaling to 5-C like Bankai Ichigo. In his fight with Yhwach where he intended to kill Yhwach, he was stomped no different than True Shikai Ichigo.

You have nothing to suggest he is comparable to anything above True Shikai. Hell, if I ask you does Aizen have anything to suggest he is even stronger than Dangai Ichigo, you couldn't answer it. Yes, Aizen is stronger than when he fought Ichigo, but Ichigo was still stronger than Aizen even before using Mugetsu, so the point is moot.

The only one Aizen can "Possibly" even scale to is True Shikai as his feats don't suggest he scales to 5-C.

Matthew_Schroeder · Oct 18, 2018

OP makes sense.

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

Danny1112 said:
TheFinalOrder said:

DarkDragonMedeus said:

I'm neutral regarding the first point, but I can agree that the "Transcendent" statement is rather iffy. And I do find it strange that weaker versions of Aizen and Ichigo scale to a feat that happened much later, let alone to a feat they never fought directly in those forms. But again, I'm neutral; Kenpachi is a character who doesn't really have a lot of hax, but his raw power is one of the strongest.
But the reason Ichigo was stomped by Yhwach was more so through hax rather than AP, so Ichigo could still scale from Yhwach's strongest. As for Aizen, he is stated to have more Reishi than Ichigo, but Reishi could be measured by multiple things. Not just speed or power, but also various hax abilities as well. Still, I'm neutral regarding whether or not Aizen scales, but leaning towards saying he's still good, but Ichigo as his peak should definitely scale to the throne lifting feat.

Click to expand...

Yeah no, Hollow Merged and Bankai Scale to 5-C Yhwach. I'm talking about True Shikai Ichigo, whom was compared to Dangai and yet was tsill stomped by Yhwach who was sitting down, casually talking shit and not using the Almighty.

Click to expand...

True shikai ichigo doesn't scale to soul king yhwach.He scales above kenpachi for being a transcendent being.

I never said True Shikai Ichigo scales to SK Yhwach, read my post again and no, True Shikai Ichigo doesn't scale to Kenpachi because he isn't trascendant despite being comparable to Dangai and if he can be comparable to Dangai while still being sensed (Unlike true Trascendant Beings) then nothing Suggest Trascendant beings should scale above Kenpachi.

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

For the part of urahara,yoruichi and ishin hurting transcendent aizen is all wrong,they only hurt a cocoon aizen,which hasn't yet become a transcendent being yet,we all know what a cocoon stage is right??the moment aizen was done with his circle or manifestation on being a complete transcendent being,he oneshoted urahara and the rest with just the aura release of his power.

Peter1129 · Oct 18, 2018

Actually Chrysalis Aizen was implied to be transcendent by Isshin

Peter1129 · Oct 18, 2018

My main problem with this transcendent thing is that most of the characters are still capable of keeping up and damaging with them even if it's barely. Not to mention Bankai Ichigo was able to sense Chrysalis Aizen even though he was weaker than Isshin.

Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye · Oct 18, 2018

> "This is why. True Shikai Ichigo isn't transcendant if he is sensed by vastly weaker characters without deliberately lowering his reiatsu, which he hasn't done in the war period. So if he is = Dangai Ichigo yet can still be sensed, being Transcendant doesn't automatically scale you above other Shinigami."

Your thinking to much about this,That statement about dimensions and sensing hardly means anything.That specific form was stated by mutiple people to now be equal to what he was prior to losing his powers.His powers are now completely in sync with each other.Being "Transcendent" does make you scale above everone else unless specificed,because it literally means they're on a whole other level.

>TFO Wrote: "Aizen despite having transcended in his fight with Kisuke, Yoruichi and Isshin was still harmed by them. Being Trascended doesn't mean you can't be harmed by lower being still. His feats are what puts him above the others. And clearly as the manga outlines, while he has gotten stronger, he has no feats to scale him above Kenpachi nor to 5-C Yhwach. No feats, statements, implications, etc. The manga has clearly proved the "Trascendant = Stronger than everything else that's not argument wrong because Shikai Ichigo who is equal to a Trasncendant being is not really trascendant if everyone can sense him, and that is simply a fact."

Aizen was very much so above everyone,even moreso then before.The Hogyoku consistently evolved him to reach new depths via his own desires.I never said being "Transcendent" means you can't be harmed anyone at all.By Vritue of being the most powerful being he scales to Kenpachi,Again there is a reason Aizen is known for his "Reiatsu" unlike Kenpachi being known for his "Killer instincts".From what i'm seeing your argument is that since they can sense him it mean's he isnt as strong lol.Transcendent hardly means anything like at all.Aizen most definetely scales to Kenpachi and Yhwach,what you talking about? this is ridiculous,he literally survived the explosion that destroyed his chair unscathed.

TFO Wrote: "Except this isn't really true as you haven't rerally proven anything. In fact, you're ignoring the manga in favor of your opinion at this point, no offense."

Lol what,Aizen was literally ******** on the entire series since day 1 i'm not ignoring the manga at all,but your certainly nitpicking it here.

*True Shikai Ichigo can be sensed by non-transcendant People despite being stated to have regained power equivalent to Dangai, whom was trascendant above a trascendant being.

*That proves you don't have to be "Trascendant to be => a Trascendant Being.

Once again Transcendent literally means nothing,except that person is strong it literally means nothing else,and if it does it was never stated at all.It's just a sword Kubo uses to describe people above the rest.

*True Shikai Ichigo nor Aizen have feats scaling them Above Kenpachi let alone 5-C Yhwach.

So what do they scale too huh? At least 7-A lol?

HST_Master · Oct 18, 2018

True Shikai Ichigo isn't 5-C, he's High 6-A. The reason Deicide Ichigo and Aizen scale to Kenpachi is off of Yhwach's statement of how strong True Shikai Ichigo is. Yhwach being casual against him despite this doesn't contradict it, it supports how strong Yhwach is.

Yhwach, Ichigo, and Aizen scale above Kenpachi thanks to Gremmy's Meteor and Yhwach > Gremmy. There's also Yhwach > Gerard who could take hits from Shikai Kenpachi just fine.

Aizen was capable of taking blows from Yhwach and keep on fighting, unlike Renji, who got fodderised immediately.

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

TheFinalOrder said:
Danny1112 said:

TheFinalOrder said:

DarkDragonMedeus said:

I'm neutral regarding the first point, but I can agree that the "Transcendent" statement is rather iffy. And I do find it strange that weaker versions of Aizen and Ichigo scale to a feat that happened much later, let alone to a feat they never fought directly in those forms. But again, I'm neutral; Kenpachi is a character who doesn't really have a lot of hax, but his raw power is one of the strongest.
But the reason Ichigo was stomped by Yhwach was more so through hax rather than AP, so Ichigo could still scale from Yhwach's strongest. As for Aizen, he is stated to have more Reishi than Ichigo, but Reishi could be measured by multiple things. Not just speed or power, but also various hax abilities as well. Still, I'm neutral regarding whether or not Aizen scales, but leaning towards saying he's still good, but Ichigo as his peak should definitely scale to the throne lifting feat.

Click to expand...

Yeah no, Hollow Merged and Bankai Scale to 5-C Yhwach. I'm talking about True Shikai Ichigo, whom was compared to Dangai and yet was tsill stomped by Yhwach who was sitting down, casually talking shit and not using the Almighty.

Click to expand...

True shikai ichigo doesn't scale to soul king yhwach.He scales above kenpachi for being a transcendent being.

Click to expand...

I never said True Shikai Ichigo scales to SK Yhwach, read my post again and no, True Shikai Ichigo doesn't scale to Kenpachi because he isn't trascendant despite being comparable to Dangai and if he can be comparable to Dangai while still being sensed (Unlike true Trascendant Beings) then nothing Suggest Trascendant beings should scale above Kenpachi.

Again I repeat myself,since you keep ignoring this,a transcendent being isn't about not having your reiatsu being sensed by a none transcendent being,it was never stated,a transcendent being means to be one with a zanpakto which is the absolute limit a shinigami can reach,aizen says this to ichigo that he has reached a level like him whereby he has become one with his zanpakto.this kenpachi with all the powerups haven't reached that level,hence still below transcendent ichigo and aizen,the part of sensing was based on a transcendent plain,where aizen saying he hasn't reached the plain of which dangain ichigo was in.it has nothing to do with none transcendent being's not sensing aizen or ichigo.and that part of were urahara them couldn't sense aizen was because aizen was in a cocoon state.

TheFinalOrder · Oct 18, 2018

Danny1112 said:
For the part of urahara,yoruichi and ishin hurting transcendent aizen is all wrong,they only hurt a cocoon aizen,which hasn't yet become a transcendent being yet,we all know what a cocoon stage is right??the moment aizen was done with his circle or manifestation on being a complete transcendent being,he oneshoted urahara and the rest with just the aura release of his power.

1.) Caccon Aizen is Trascendant Bro, read This and This and This

2.) He defeated them, yes, but he was still trascendant and he was still injured by them despite them not being able to sense him. Just like in turn, he could harm Dangai despite not being able to sense him and being weaker still. Basically Kubo's Words Contradict feats that contradict feats, lol.

Either way, main point is, he was trascendant. As far as Dangai Ichigo and Aizen scaling above Kenpachi, well, as long as True Shikai Ichigo is comparable to Dangai will not being "Trascended", than there is no justifiable reason they should scale above Kenpachi without feats, context or implications.

Shadowbokunohero · Oct 18, 2018

True Shikai Ichigo =Dangai>Kenpachi

Aizen not scaling I agree with, he took one casual attack from Yhwach, the moment Yhwach was serious he ripped through Aizen like butter, Aizen was only able to stay in the game because of his Hax and Regen not his AP

Danny1112 · Oct 18, 2018

Peter1129 said:
Actually Chrysalis Aizen was implied to be transcendent by Isshin

Where was it stated??I don't see any??he couldn't sense aizen reiatsu because aizen was in a cocoon stage transforming into a transcendent, to put it clearly, a cocoon is when something is almost at is end of life cycle. Which is turning into an adult which is the final stage,this is the same case as aizen,he was never a transcendent at that moment, he only became one when the white thing covering him broke and bought out the pure transcendent being,urahara and his group didn't hurt aizen,they only pierced and burnt the white pavement covering aizen,the moment it broke and revealed aizen,he oneshoted them with just the release of his power.

Potential Aizen/Yhwach/Ichigo Downgrade

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