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Puella Magi misc revisions: Acausality + Tart edition

Kaltias

VS Battles
Retired
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6,335
Acausality

Homura Akemi

Homura in base should have type 1 acausality via resisting the effect of a multiversal reset (Power granted by her shield, so the same would apply to Kyubey).

CMG Homura should have type 4, given that she is stated to transcend the laws of the world, which in the context of the Wraith Arc is often used referring to causality (And it definitely doesn't refer to the LoC, unless Madoka transcends herself)

Madoka Kaname
Madoka in base shouldn't have it. The plot of PMMM is centered around the fact that Madoka is affected by Homura resetting the timeline.

As Madokami, she'd get type 4 for the same reason as Homura.

There is also this statement:

"That is due to our adjustment. The isolation field will only stop interference from one direction. Even though it will reject all attempts from the outside, it is still possible to guide a victim in from the inside. Only targets that your witch side unconsciously seeks will enter this world. After such limitation, if the force known as 'law of cycle' seeks to contact Akemi Homura still. Then the only way it will enter is through being captured by the labyrinth as a victim and be forced to materialize in this world. In that case, us Incubator will then finally be able to ascertain the puzzle behind magic girl's disappearance, and observe it directly. In fact, the characters that existed in the real world already joined in strange ways. What is more fascinating, a girl that neither existed in past memory nor future possibility, someone who should have no connection, no cause or effect to this world, joined seemlessly in your world. Well, there was never any need to search, from the beginning you have made things easier for us, Akemi Homura. Even before this all started, you have always called the 'law of cycles' by the name of Kaname Madoka."

That's textbook type 2, however, i feel that it could also grant type 5, as it's stated that Madoka should have no connection to this world, from a cause and effect standpoint, which seems to imply that she exists outside of regular causality.

There is also supporting this type 2, and to an extent type 5

UKG
UKG gets type 2 and 4 scaling from Madoka (She should also have type 2 thanks to not being part of space-time, given that Madoka removed every witch from the entirety of history)

Isabeau stuff

AP
Relevant scans here.

Isabeau's 6-B feat was at her weakest, and it's confirmed that she grew in power. Thus she should be "At least 6-B". Kyubey also says that if Isabeau manages to extend her territory, this world (Which means the planet) will lose any value that it had previously.

This means that Isabeau can extend her barrier up to planetary proportions, meaning that at her peak she should be 5-B.

So "At least 6-B (Created a labyrinth encompassing all of France at her weakest), 5-B at her peak (Kyubey stated that if Isabeau managed to extend her territory,the latter would encompass the entire world)

This would also grant Isabeau Statistics Amplification.

Invulnerability
Isabeau is protected by Minou's wish. This doesn't only protect her from punches and stuff, but also from haxy stuff like Melissa's Matter Destruction. That should probably be noted on her profile.

I have no clue about the resistances that this should grant tho.

Doppel Tart
The description is on Tart's page. Basically, we consider Tart's Holy Manipulation as durability negation, which is baseless.

It should affect comparable beings, as it is caused by the power of the Doppel, but it shouldn't go further than that.

Misc stuff
Mami's ribbons should have durability "up to High 7-A" instead of straight High 7-A because she can change their durability.

For a similar reason, LoC Sayaka should be "Possibly High 7-A".

Akuma Homura shouldn't have void manipulation as existing in nonexistence doesn't qualify anymore.
 
Been a while since we have a PMMM revision, agree with most stuffs and not sure about the Tart thing.

I mean, her description says it involves stuff like sins and pretty sure there is the word of "purifying" in it. Didn't we treat Madoka's purifying stuff as dura neg too, why can't Tart have the same?
 
Because Madoka's purification stuff is Death Manipulation.

Tart's is burning people alive.
 
Which involves the sin of her victim.

"In short, one has no choice but to accept the full brunt of its absurd purity."

Tart's flame isn't any ordinary flame, but one that purify things. I think that the "purifying" part is the one that made it dura neg ability.
 
>Tart's flame isn't any ordinary flame, but one that purify things. I think that the "purifying" part is the one that made it dura neg ability

It doesn't tho. The Doppel burns you for your sins. That's no different from real life people burned alive during the medieval age because they were heretics, witches etc. She can do that perfectly fine using regular fire
 
Bruh that's like giving durability negation to everyone in Warhammer who has a flamethrower because they use it to purify heretics/aliens.

"Puryfing" doesn't mean durability negation. It's just what fire does metaphorically
 
Oh and before i forget, Akuma Homura shouldn't have void manipulation as existing in nonexistence doesn't qualify anymore.
 
Seems pretty good and I agree with most of it

I'm a little bit "Eh" about making Mami's Ribbons High 7A from her ribbons being>False Mami which is>>>>>>>Mami herself who still isn't M+

Either way I think Sayaka should be High 7A by virtue of that chain of scaling
 
That sounds like a false equivalence since Tart's flames wasn't came from a weapon like flamethrower, but it's a byproduct of her magic. So, her flame being having dura neg element sounds more believable to me.
 
False Mami is >> Candeloro who is >>> Mami who is = Elisa who is >>> Tart who is >>> Witch Lapin who is >>> magical girl Lapin who is either super high end 7-B or low end 7-A.

High 7-A is fine as it is
 
Homu Sweet Homu said:
That sounds like a false equivalence since Tart's flames wasn't came from a weapon like flamethrower, but it's a byproduct of her magic. So, her flame being having dura neg element sounds more believable to me.
Except that there are forms of magic in PMMM that obviously do not ignore dura?

And no, it's not a false equivalence. You said that they negate durability because they purify things, and i provided an example explaining why that alone doesn't prove durability negation
 
Doesn't purification ignore dura in general? Why is this different?

I mean, you compared Tart's flame to a flamethrower which is pretty sure not a magical unless I'm missing something.
 
No it doesn't.

Being magical doesn't mean anything. Kyoko's flames don't neg dura either and they are magical
 
Dude.

Purification =/= durability negation

Fire =/= durability negation

Purifying fire =/= durability negation

It's not that hard
 
No.

But she was using them to restrain someone so she had no real reason to use weak ribbons, I think.

I can get behind "at least 7-B, possibly High 7-A" but I think that the possibility should be acknowledged
 
I think, "At least 7-B, possibly higher" is better, as there is still a 7-A tier alongside a High 7-A one.

But the rest looks good.
 
Kyoko.

But LoC Sayaka is at least 7-B because she is Sayaka + Oktavia and the latter is 7-B, not because of Mami's ribbons
 
"But LoC Sayaka is at least 7-B because she is Sayaka + Oktavia and the latter js 7-B, not because of Mami's ribbons"

What's your point with this then?
 
I uh, don't think that we are understanding each other.

I said that Sayaka should be High 7-A scaling from the high end durability of Mami's ribbons.

You said that it's too much of an assumption.

I explained that i'd prefer "at least 7-B, likely High 7-A".

You asked why 7-B.

I explained that LoC Sayaka is 7-B at minimum because she is Sayaka + Oktavia.

The point was that Sayaka is 7-B at the very least
 
What's the likelyhood of Mami going full High 7A ribbons on someone physically much weaker that can't break out regardless?

Because unless there's a drawback to using stronger ribbons I agree with at least 7B possibly High 7A
 
There isn't any real drawback, afaik.

Then again we don't really know if Mami uses High 7-A ribbons all the time
 
If their isn't a drawback I see zero reason to assume they weren't.

But alas if possibly 7B is agreed on then whatever
 
On second thought, after seeing the scan of Kyoko vs Mami Im pretty sure using the stronger ribbons uses more magical energy, hence why Kyoko is surprised and worried at her using so much
 
I have to bring up that we should probably remove Homura Akemi's 2-A Power Absorption. TL;DR Wraith Arc states that Crystialized Magical Girls' power comes from their memories, and given Homura already Memory Manipulation (Which already removed Ult. Madoka's powers), it makes more sense she used that than always having some extremely broken Power Absorption (Even with the high "inital magic" stat, it doesn't really make sense)
 
Kyoko doesn't say that using stronger ribbons = more energy though?

She just says that Mami is using a lot of magical energy.

@SD

Sure
 
She says that the moment after Mami starts using the more durable strings that's she's using up a lot of magical energy
 
She is also using about a dozen of them at the same time instead of one.
 
\_(-_-)_/

I see literally zero point in changing their Durability of it makes no difference but whatever
 
@SD about that, there's a translated scan from the guidebook of Rebellion that says that Madoka's powers are kept sealed in the Gem that hangs down from Akumura's earring, implying that she did indeed take her powers
 
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