Pikachu upgrade to 4-B

Bobsican · Sep 15, 2018

This may sound like a crazy outlier at first, but as the profile states it, it doesn´t seem like that.

As we can see in the Notable Attacks/Techniques in his profile:

"10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt: A Z-Move, so far only seen once, when Ash's Electrium-Z temporarily turned into Pikashium-Z. Pikachu jumps up in the air (after a small routine) and fires many powerful multicolored bolts of electricity at the target. This move was strong enough to one-shot Merged Lusamine."

Merged Lusamine is 4-B, so Pikachu should be 4-B via 10 000 000 Thunderbolt.

I think I have to keep this part clear so you don´t simply take it as an outlier:

This is a special move that Pikachu has used only once so far, which means that there are no counterfeats to take it as an outlier, and it would make sence to rate Pikachu with just 4-B AP via this move.

Unless you users agree to just wait for some counterfeat or something is up to you, I´m just here to see what this is exactly rated as and why.

Dragonmasterxyz · Sep 15, 2018

I'm sorry, but what? No. We didn't give Pikachu's move 5-B AP when UB's were 5-B. We are definently not going to do so for 4-B. This is an outlier, simple as that.

Bobsican · Sep 15, 2018

But this is different.

The tiering wouldn´t just go as 4-B Pikachu in all his stats, but more like just to AP in that one move only.

As in like:

"At least High 6-C, 4-B via 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt"

DMUA · Sep 15, 2018

Bobsican said:
I think I have to keep this part clear so you don´t simply take it as an outlier:

This is a special move that Pikachu has used only once so far, which means that there are no counterfeats to take it as an outlier, and it would make sence to rate Pikachu with just 4-B AP via this move.

It's literally one attack, and a super powerful attack that's supposed to be higher then anything else.

I'm fine with it.

DMB_1 · Sep 15, 2018

>Not Fun and Games

Dragonmasterxyz · Sep 15, 2018

Just because it's one attack does not mean it can't be an outlier.

DMUA · Sep 15, 2018

I mean, it can be an outlier, but we have no reason to just say "lol outlier" when again, it's a super powerful attack that's beyond what he's normally capable of.

Maybe it will become an outlier later, but right now, it's just a special attack.

Dragonmasterxyz · Sep 15, 2018

Just because it's so beyond what he's normally capable of does not mean it is justified at being 4-B. I vehemently disagree with this.

Bobsican · Sep 15, 2018

I´m not saing it can´t be an outlier, but there are no counterfeats that showcase the move as a just slightly more stronger version of the average Z-Move that would just fall as High 6-C.

I suggest to just wait in the anime to see when it´s done again, so we may actually evaluate it properly, instead of just rubbing "outlier" on the move simply because it´s far higher than the rest of his moveset.

TriforcePower1 · Sep 15, 2018

DMUA is kind of right. Just calling everything an outlier just for disbelief is wrong. It's like a new form, and we nearly never consider feats done in new forms outlier. For now, I agree.

Bobsican · Sep 15, 2018

I have to agree with this.

DMUA · Sep 15, 2018

Dragonmasterxyz said:
Just because it's so beyond what he's normally capable of does not mean it is justified at being 4-B. I vehemently disagree with this.

Except

It killed a 4-B

That's plenty of justification

I honestly don't know what to say to you beyond "it's a special and powerful techique". I just don't have any more words to muster.

Agree for disagreement I guess

Dragonmasterxyz · Sep 15, 2018

We'll see what everyone else says to this.

Ciruno_Fortes_(COB) · Sep 15, 2018

Was there any other feat that comes even close to this? Is this like a huge temporary power up? Anything at all?

Matthew_Schroeder · Sep 15, 2018

Why is this highlighted. It's definitely not getting accepted.

Maverick_Zero_X · Sep 15, 2018

Real shit?

TriforcePower1 · Sep 15, 2018

Also, I just remembered that the Z-moves are supposedly Necrozma's light, and given that Necro is 4-B, it would make sense for something powered up by that to be much stronger, and potentially reach 4-B (on a muuuuch smaller scale, of course).

Dragonmasterxyz · Sep 15, 2018

Just one attack. Nothing outside of Legendaries come close to this.

Torlikoff · Sep 15, 2018

Why was this highlighted?

Ciruno_Fortes_(COB) · Sep 15, 2018

Where does solar system come from anyway? I'm checking the ultra beasts but I'm just being circled around and around and around.

@DragonSenku

Then it seems very outlierish.

DarkDragonMedeus · Sep 15, 2018

4-B Pikachu sounds heavily outlierish.

Bobsican · Sep 15, 2018

That´s why I kept that part clear in the OP.

DragonEmperor23 · Sep 15, 2018

Don't some characters have higher AP with certain attacks?

TriforcePower1 · Sep 15, 2018

But we can't disregard it just for disbelief. He's powered up by a piece of a 4-B character, defeated an another 4-B, and it doesn't have anti-feats, or actually any other feat at all.

Dragonmasterxyz · Sep 15, 2018

Solar System Pokemon comes from Ultra Necrozma and those who scale below him (UB's, Tapu, Solgaleo and Lunala)

Although Azzy mentioned that he had some issues with said rating.

ProfessorKukui4Life · Sep 15, 2018

Im honestly surprised this was worth a highlight at all no offense.....will just say this.

As the person who got the UB's upgraded in the 1st place, the answer is flat out NO.

We've already denied scaling even Perfect Zygarde to the UB's and he has more backing him for this scaling than Pikachu does. If we're not even going to allow other legendaries to scale to this, Pikachu definitely isn't any better and absolutely isn't any exception.

4-B for Pikachu is a flat out outlier, the highlight needs to be removed, and honestly, this thread needs to be closed. Sorry, but only the Gen 7 guys are getting this and trying to add any other pokemon, mon that aren't even legendaries, into this equation will only spell disaster.

Vehemently against this too.

TriforcePower1 · Sep 15, 2018

He didn't do a CRT about that yet, so the feat is still legit.

Dragonmasterxyz · Sep 15, 2018

Let me ask this. If we didn't scale this move to the 5-B UBs....why would we do so for the 4-B UB's?

Dragonmasterxyz · Sep 15, 2018

TriforcePower1 said:
He didn't do a CRT about that yet, so the feat is still legit.

Never said it wasn't. I said Azzy had some issues with it. Nothing more.

Phoenix821 · Sep 15, 2018

4-B Pikachu would be amazing if it wasn't an outlier.

ProfessorKukui4Life · Sep 15, 2018

Dragonmasterxyz said:
Let me ask this. If we didn't scale this move to the 5-B UBs....why would we do so for the 4-B UB's?

This.

Back when they were 5-B, Pikachu didn't get this scaling. Why would we suddenly allow that for a tier thats multiple tiers above 5-B?

TriforcePower1 · Sep 15, 2018

TriforcePower1 said:
Also, I just remembered that the Z-moves are supposedly Necrozma's light, and given that Necro is 4-B, it would make sense for something powered up by that to be much stronger, and potentially reach 4-B (on a muuuuch smaller scale, of course).

Main reason this isn't an outlier outside the fact that it doesn't have anti-feats. Literally the whole argument is argument of disbelief fallacy.

DMUA · Sep 15, 2018

No offense to anyone here but it feels like we haven't actually read the thread

This is one move, one amped up super move, powered by a 4-B, that took out a 4-B. That's it. This isn't 4-B Pikachu, this is Pikachu with a 4-B attack.

I don't see anything wrong with 1 4-B attack, and if it was 5-B, I wouldn't see a problem there either.

Bobsican · Sep 15, 2018

I have to agree with this.

Maverick_Zero_X · Sep 15, 2018

Fricking downplayers. Stop sleeping on my man Pikachu.

ProfessorKukui4Life · Sep 15, 2018

The problem with the "4-B powered up" logic is that while it is true Necrozmas light provides Z-Power, there's absolutely no evidence that its powered up any Pokemon to a 4-B extent.

Powered up =/= 4-B. A fraction of 4-B won't be anything close to it, for all we know those fractions of power given to amp up Pikachu are just tid bits of what Necrozma can do.

Not to mention, this logic would literally upgrade every pokemon ever who can perform a Z-Move.

DMUA · Sep 15, 2018

I mean

If every Z move ever can kill 4-Bs, upgrade them.

Yeah, there isn't proof that just "powered by x" means you have the tier of x, but killing something of a tier is basic scaling.

ProfessorKukui4Life · Sep 15, 2018

So if a Rockruff uses Breakneck Blitz, it's suddenly 4-B?

That makes this type of scaling even more outlierish.

Dragonmasterxyz · Sep 15, 2018

Lets scale every Pokemon who can learn even the weakest ground type move to Tectonic Rage. Why? Because, it is one move with no anti-feats and is far stronger than their natural paygrade.

I love the idea of my Pidgey having a Tier 6 attack via Tectonic Rage thanks to it being able to learn friggen Mud-Slap.

DarkDragonMedeus · Sep 15, 2018

You do realize that scientifically, 10,000,000 Volt electricity is only Building level+. Though Pikachu's still higher for other reasons. It's best to just call it PIS.

Pikachu upgrade to 4-B

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