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Agnès vs. Asriel (Gentle-Hearted Souls With Unbelievable Power) (Voting Completed)

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To be frank, this is personally one of my favorite ideas I've ever had while coming up with a versus debate. In fact, I'm so happy I managed to find these two in the same tier. that I don't even care if this gets knocked down as a stomp thread. Well, truthfully, I'd rather see this come to fruition, but you get what I mean. Regardless, let's get into this debate! Which of these two multiversal heavy hitters shall claim victory today? Let's find out now!

In the blue corner, we have Agnès Oblige from Bravely Default, and in the red corner, we have Asriel Dreemurr from Undertale.

Agnes Oblige
Asriel dreemurr remake undertale by artyjoyful-daozvm0
-This is a battle to the death or incapacitation. No holds barred.
-Neither character are aware of each other beforehand, and there is no prep time.

-Neither character are allowed any outside help, which means that none of Agnès' friends are allowed to step in. She's on her own here.

-This battle takes place in the void Asriel creates when he achieves his god form, giving him the clear home-field advantage.

-Agnès is in her Composite form, and Asriel starts using a fraction of his power, but can unleash his Full Power if he needs it.

-Speed is equalized.

With all this being said, let the debate begin!

Wind Maiden: 3 (A Stoned Orc, Iapitus The Impaler, Hans0l013123897)

God Goat: 8 (Ricsi-viragosi, TheArsenal1212, Dragonboi9191, Apatheticskell, Videogamer1265, Jimboydejuan12, Jackythejack, DaBigP)

Pacifist Route (Inconclusive): 0

Fingers crossed that this doesn't get immediately shut down, like my last Asriel thread...
 
Ok well looking at both their stats, Agnes seems to have the edge. Death Manip would destroy Asriel but before I give her a vote I need to ask, has she ever used it on someone as powerful as Asriel? Regardless, Agnes counters SAVE and LOAD with her own time manipulation, and her power null seems as good as Asriel's although both aren't amazing. Not voting yet just gonna wait on that
 
I don't see how instant death automatically overcomes Asriel just refusing to die, which a DETERMINATION user of his level is entirely capable of doing (which was a pretty big part of what Frisk did when the two of them fought).

(This isn't a vote, by the way. I know very little about Agnes.)
 
I was about to mention that, Azzy, plus I don't think Agnès' Time Manipulation works like people think it works. She's got some Time Magic, sure, which can slow down and stop Asriel for a while or speed herself up, but her Bravely Second is a very limited use technique that allows her to get some free hits on Asriel. She can only do so many before she can't do them anymore, and they certainly won't stop Asriel's SAVE and LOAD abilities.
 
Asriel'S DT can stop Death manipulation? Surely Asriel should have that power on his page because nothing on there suggests death Manip not working.
 
Instant death pretty much negates determination, I'm pretty sure. There's no time to process that you're dying, and to refuse that process. You're just dead.
 
That isn't how it works...

DT is an energy that is always there, and if his soul(s) is destroyed, it just puts itself back together.

He doesn't need to be awere of it, because he always has enough DT to refuse to die.


Beyond that, save and load also counter that.


Also, doesn't asriel have a massive AP advantage due to being infinitly above other 2-B's?
 
So, a few things:

Asriel destroys time, so increasing and lowering it is imppossible.

There is also no gravity.


I see one, maybe two, ways for her to win: Love Manip, and maybe fear depending on how good it is.

But I'll say that asriel is more likely to kill her before those are cast
 
Wait a minute. Hold up. I remember Asriel obliterating the entire timeline during his fight. I don't ever remember him destroying the entire concept of time. Where are you getting this from?
 
He didn't destroy the concept, nor did I say he did.

But there is no time in the void still, because its outside of time and space, much like how it is when chara destroyed the timeline
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
That isn't how it works...

DT is an energy that is always there, and if his soul(s) is destroyed, it just puts itself back together.

He doesn't need to be awere of it, because he always has enough DT to refuse to die.


Beyond that, save and load also counter that.


Also, doesn't asriel have a massive AP advantage due to being infinitly above other 2-B's?
Click to expand...
Agnès has durability negation so even if Asriel has an AP advantage, it shouldn't be an issue for her.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Agnès has durability negation so even if Asriel has an AP advantage, it shouldn't be an issue for her.
Click to expand...
One thing is being stronger, another is being infinitly stronger.
 
One thing is being stronger, another is being infinitly stronger.

According to Agnès's profile, she's "countlessly" above a baseline 2-B, although countless does not necessarily mean infinite. So it's safe to say Asriel has the AP advantage. They're both 4D though so durabilty negation will work.
 
The difference between countless and infinite is infinite.

And some would work, but she would need to employ those before getting one-shot by a random danmaku hit
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
The difference between countless and infinite is infinite.

And some would work, but she would need to employ those before getting one-shot by a random danmaku hit
Click to expand...
True. Asriel is likely the strongest 2-B on this site AP wise. He actually used to be 2-A, but got downgraded because being infinitely stronger than 2-Bs or 2-Cs doesn't automatically give you 2-A anymore.
 
Honestly, Agnes is so versatile that she should be able to over come the power difference. She does Stillness and then stacks tons of buffs on herself. I don't recall if she can actually apply debuffs during stillness, but I'm gonna work under the assumption that she can't for now. If he drops Angel of Death immediately out of stillness, he may potentially win, but I doubt he will. Under any other situation, Agnes loads him with a ton of debuffs and potentially just instant deaths him right out of stillness while he tries to navigate and figure out her various defensive abilities

So in summery, I vote for Agnes
 
Using speed amplificaion as a reasoning against someone infinitly faster isn't allowed eiher. It was discussed in the speed equalization thread.
 
It was agreed that someone winning in speed equal matches by being faster is ridicolous, and with there not being frisk around asriel will just erase everything and recreate the world like he wanted to, and as of now he has an infinite AP advantage to lolnope her defending herself.
 
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