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Music video personas? (Staff only)

Antvasima

Antvasima

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It has been suggested that we should allow certain music video personas of real people:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1962046

Here are our current related Editing Rules:

"All characters in VS Battles wiki profiles should originate within actual stories, from notable or popular works.

Do not add any original or fan-made characters to the wiki. If you wish to create any original/fan-made character profiles, feel free to do so in the FC/OC wiki.

Do not create any joke profiles, as they do not fit into our tiering system. Also avoid creating profiles for fan characters, advertisement characters, YouTube personalities, music videos, memes, stage personas, and the like. If you wish to create such profiles, feel free to do so in the Joke Battles wiki instead.

Preferably avoid adding character profiles that may be inappropriate or perceived to be in poor taste. This may include characters, weapons, etcetera, that are ill-suited for a statistics-indexing wiki, due to having no reliable feats, or ones from media which may be too controversial or otherwise unnecessary to be featured. This includes content that would strictly be added as a joke, for example Barney the dinosaur or the Teletubbies."

I have been very exhausted from recent events, so I did not have the energy to extensively argue about it, but one important point that came up is that it is likely inappropriate and potentially dangerous for the wiki if it gets swarmed by profiles of stage personas sharing the names of real human artists (or educational program presenters), and our largely underage members then start to argue about which of them that can kill each other.

Please read the linked discussion thread before responding here.

NOTE: STAFF ONLY
 
I don't really like the idea of profiles for music video personalities. We made an exception in one case as the characters were getting a fully fledged animated series with proper feats. But it'd be advisable to not allow such profiles in other cases, especially since a lot of "music personas" are very controversial.
 
I am in truth not a fan of these types of files in the slightest. But I will go with what the majority says.
 
I think that Soldier Blue makes sense.
 
During my studies I worked as a trainee in a licencing company. And these people have been just to happy to file lawsuits against people who used or spread, regardless if commercial or not, the products / topics they had a license on. Fair Use is one thing - however its not about whether we technically can use it or not, its about preventing possible problems.

A cantoneese cartoon character is one thing. A real life persona is another.

I am heavily opposed to the idea.
 
RavenSupreme makes a very good point. Should we mention this within our current rules?
 
RavenSupreme said:
And these people have been just to happy to file lawsuits against people who used or spread, regardless if commercial or not, the products / topics they had a license on.
Click to expand...
I never thought this would be a problem. You have a good point.
 
So should we add something like this as a regulation text?

"It is also considered as a bad idea to create profiles for fictionalised stage personas for other reasons, whether these have their origins in music videos, educational programs, or otherwise: For one thing, it is inappropriate for largely underage wiki members to discuss which real people that are most capable of killing each other, and for another many of these artists are extremely willing to file lawsuits against anybody who uses products for which they own intellectual license rights, regardless whether or not these are used for commercial purposes. Preferably avoid adding such profiles to Joke Battles as well."

Feel free to suggest changes to the draft.
 
It seems this is concluded, so I'd like to ask a question: would this logic prevent me from using it in the joke battle wikia?
 
Probably, yes. They don't want any lawsuits either.
 
I modified the draft.
 
@Soldier Blue

Okay. Thanks.
 
So should I add the new regulation?
 
Seems fine to add, but maybe wait for other staff members to get a chance to comment.
 
I'm also against adding music characters, is Hatsune Miku all over again. I could accept it is the characters are actually part of an actual story beyond the music, having lore and such.
 
@Dragon

Yes. I will wait.
 
It's nice to have some flexibility, but the idea of Vs. Battles Wiki primarily revolves around fiction. While music video personas can be written off as "fictional interpretations of a person much like a film chatacrer, they are more accurately in the same category as tv personas. Unless they are fictional characters derivative from a notable work that can be judged and tiered accordingly, they should not be allowed. Real Life profiles obviously being primarily limited to weapons and animals and those have objective facts that their stats are based on. It goes against our prioritization of these notable characters if we start allowing too much leeway (remember the composite profile crisis?) I'm glad the majority are against this.
 
So is my suggested new rule sufficient to avoid more discussions about this in the future, or should we add Sera's reasoning to some regulation as well? And if so, does anybody have a suggestion?
 
I am against this as well, for reasons already posted by several staff members.
 
So, about the new regulation text...
 
I think it's fine and can be added.
 
Antvasima said:
So, about the new regulation text...
Click to expand...
@Ant I have applied some changes to your proposed text to clarify things and smoothing it out. Changes are in bold.


"It is also prohibited to create profiles for fictionalised stage personas for other reasons, whether these have their origins in music videos, educational programs, or otherwise: For one thing, it is inappropriate for largely underage wiki members to discuss which real people would hypothetically be most capable of killing each other, and for another, a vast majority of these artists are extremely willing to file lawsuits against anybody who uses their brand for which they own intellectual property rights, regardless whether or not these are meant to be used for commercial or fair use purposes. It would be recommended and preferable to avoid adding such profiles to Joke Battles as well."
 
@RavenSupreme

I changed "one" to "each", but otherwise it seems fine.
 
I'm fine with adding such profiles. Here are some arguments:

  1. There're music bands with their fictional counterparts: Gorillaz, Steam Powered Giraffe, Daddy DJ, One-T, One eskimO, and so on; and completely fictional characters who are originating from music videos: Crazy Frog, Gummibär, Pulcino Pio, and so on.
  2. Another character, Gluk`oZa, is based on appearance and personality of Natalya Chistyakova-Ionova ― the one who has been singing throughout the music videos where Gluk`oZa (a fictional character) is the main character in the fictional world.
  3. Above are examples of music characters, which are already allowed here. As for Kendrick Lamar: although his clips aren't either CGI or 2D animation, he is still an actor who plays a character in the music videos. Even if his character's name is still unknown, or it exactly the same as the actor has ― it doesn't matter.
  4. People should see differences between IRL actors and characters, which they play in action movies, TV series, and music videos as well. Some characters may die throughout this kind of media, but it doesn't mean that their actors died as well. It also doesn't mean that actors actually possess powers and abilities of their characters.
 
Antvasima said:
@RavenSupreme
I changed "one" to "each", but otherwise it seems fine.
Click to expand...
Thanks. English is not my native language. Sometimes some errors just slip in.
 
Adding an explanation as to why such profiles shouldn't be added seems fine
 
I understand that this is staff only, and I told myself I would not take part in any discussion today (frankly because I was fearful), but I hope this comment will not be deleted as I was one of those discussing in the original thread.

I'm against Kendrick Lamar. My points in that thread were lawsuits and crossing a line between fiction and reality when on a form discussing who would win in fights to the death between characters. Additionally, despite Lamar being an actor in these videos, he is an actor portraying himself- it is still him, there's no large separation of character and self.

All of that said, I believe musical profiles like the ones we already have are acceptable as they are just fictional characters, created inside of a fictional universe, with a story around them- not a real life human's creative portrayals of themselves. Examples on the wiki include Gorillaz and Steam Powered Giraffe, and one I can think of from off the wiki would be the NSP/Tupperware Remix Party shared universe.

I don't plan on following this thread, as I have places to go, but this is my opinion. Good luck.
 
No problem. Your opinion is appreciated.
 
So should I add RavenSupreme's suggested text to the Editing Rules page?
 
I personally agree with Soldier Blue and Matthew Schroeder. I really don't think we should allow music personas of real people; especially for ones who are still alive. That could lead to quite a bit of controversy. Also, most music artists who's music videos tell a story, it's generally about their personal lives and haven't really heard of artists who have all their music videos part of one big story.

That being said, I'm personally a big Michael Jackson fan and would think it would be fun to have a profile for him, but said profile should stay on Joke Battles wiki. All his videos are like short movies yes, but the different "characters" he plays are kind of different; it's a repeat of composite movie profiles like Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris. Which we generally agreed against that idea since a Composite Arnold Schwarzenegger would have him combining, Terminator, Mr Freeze, and many other characters. Bottom line, I don't think YouTube/Music personas should be aloud tbh.
 
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