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Sun Wukong's strength - Info from the book and cultural studies

Ghostexorcist

Ghostexorcist

23
2
Hello all,

I'm new to this wiki. I recently wrote two blog articles that I think users who like Sun Wukon might find interesting. I feel they have bearing on future battles, as well as the character's own article. I present my blogs below. The first shows how the idea that his staff anchored the galaxy is based on a mistranslation.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Wukong's_Magic_Staff_and_the_Milky_Way_Galaxy

The second analyzes his greatest feat of strength, successfully lifting the weight of two celestial Buddhist mountains while simultaneously running "with the speed of a meteor". Based on my previous input, Sun Wukong's strength was changed to T Class (I think). But I went back and studied the text and the cultural context of the mountains involved and believe a revision is in order. One of the mountains in question is considered the very axis of the Buddhist cosmos. I'll leave it up to you guys how the information is quantified into real world terms.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Ghostexorcist/Sun_Wukong's_Greatest_Feat_of_Strength

I live in Taiwan, so please understand that there will be some delay between my replies.
 
I think that his seems reasonable, but as others said, let's wait for Matthew.

We should also probably link to the two blogs in a footnotes section.
 
Have you asked Matthew Schroeder to give input here?
 
I have done so: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1973951
 
Wukong being Low 2-C for being one with existence as a buddha normally seems legit, but it seems weird to scale him to direct buddhist texts unless those would be considered valid.
 
We would appreciate more input than that regarding this topic.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
Wukong being Low 2-C for being one with existence as a buddha normally seems legit, but it seems weird to scale him to direct buddhist texts unless those would be considered valid.
Click to expand...
The focus here is his pre-Buddha feats. My blog entry only provides cultural-historical context for the mountains present in the episode in which his feat of strength takes place. Citing information about Mt. Sumeru from a modern dictionary of Buddhist terms is not the same as quoting from a religious Buddhist text. That would be extreme even for me and I love doing research.
 
@Ghostexorcist

Can you give a summary of the statistics that you wish to change in the Sun Wukong (Myth) page?

@Matthew

I would appreciate if you would be willing to help out here.
 

Howling winds,
Dark, sinister clouds.
On one side flags and standards colorfully flying,
On the other side the gleam of spears and halberds.
Round helmets shine,
Layered armour gleams.
The shining round helmets reflect the sun,
Like silver boulders reaching to the sky;
Gleaming layers of armour are built into a wall
Like a mountain of ice weighing down the earth.
Longhandled swords
Flash through the clouds like lightning;
Paperwhite spears
Pierce mists and fogs;
Heavenshaped halberds,
Tigereye chains,
Bristling like a field of hemp;
Bronze swords,
And fourbrightness spears
Drawn up like a dense forest.
Bows and crossbows, eaglefeathered arrows,
Short clubs and snaky spears to terrify the soul.
Wielding his single AsYouWill cudgel,
The Great Sage fights against the heavenly gods.
Such is the slaughter that no bird flies over it;
And tigers and wolves flee in terror.
The swirling stones and clouds of sand make everything dark,
The dirt and the dust blot out the heavens.
The clash of arms startles the universe
As the battle strikes awe into gods and demons
A wicked monkey made chaos, shocking heaven and earth,
So they spread their nets and watched by night and day.
 
Well, I am not sure if startling the universe is quantifiable, or what do you have in mind?
 
It's saying that he shook the universe. This happens when he's fighting the entire armies of heaven including the literal constellations.
 
Okay. That should be fine then. Do we have a calculation for that kind of feat?
 
His durability in his Pre-Buddha state is definitely Universal, though. He was five-times immortal and with his name erased from the book of life and death and the Jade Emperor couldn't do anything to him.
 
I also think the whole "Infinite Milky Way" in the current profile is incredibly stupid and born out of ignorance of the cosmology I had at the time. The Milky Way / Celestial River is synoynmous with the Heavens / the Universe as a whole.
 
Okay. Perhaps you should edit the page then?
 
Antvasima said:
@Ghostexorcist
Can you give a summary of the statistics that you wish to change in the Sun Wukong (Myth) page?

@Matthew

I would appreciate if you would be willing to help out here.
Click to expand...


The info I provided is aimed mainly at his lifting strength. However, him surviving being crushed under Mount Tai, which is considered the heaviest thing imaginable in Chinese culture, could raise his durability. I'll leave that up to you guys.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:

Howling winds,
Dark, sinister clouds.
On one side flags and standards colorfully flying,
On the other side the gleam of spears and halberds.
Round helmets shine,
Layered armour gleams.
The shining round helmets reflect the sun,
Like silver boulders reaching to the sky;
Gleaming layers of armour are built into a wall
Like a mountain of ice weighing down the earth.
Longhandled swords
Flash through the clouds like lightning;
Paperwhite spears
Pierce mists and fogs;
Heavenshaped halberds,
Tigereye chains,
Bristling like a field of hemp;
Bronze swords,
And fourbrightness spears
Drawn up like a dense forest.
Bows and crossbows, eaglefeathered arrows,
Short clubs and snaky spears to terrify the soul.
Wielding his single AsYouWill cudgel,
The Great Sage fights against the heavenly gods.
Such is the slaughter that no bird flies over it;
And tigers and wolves flee in terror.
The swirling stones and clouds of sand make everything dark,
The dirt and the dust blot out the heavens.
The clash of arms startles the universe
As the battle strikes awe into gods and demons
A wicked monkey made chaos, shocking heaven and earth,
So they spread their nets and watched by night and day.

Click to expand...
The original Chinese version says "Ú®ÜÕñ®Õ£░" (jing tiandi), which means to "scare or alarm heaven and earth." I think this is just saying the battle scared everyone, not that it literally shook the universe.

Like I stated above, he easily lifts the axis of the universe on one shoulder while running "with the speed of a meteor". I think that is his greatest feat of strength.
 
Keeping High 3-A for shaking an infinite universe seems fine. I'm fishy about buddhahood since his buddhahood key scales to actual buddhism for some reason.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
Keeping High 3-A for shaking an infinite universe seems fine. I'm fishy about buddhahood since his buddhahood key scales to actual buddhism for some reason.
Click to expand...
The book does treat him as a full-fledged Buddha. For example, at the end, the entirety of the Buddhist pantheon gathers to chant a prayer in which they pay homage to the Buddhas of the past, present, and future, as well as Bodhisattvas and arhats. The chant for each goes "I submit to [Name of deity]". "I submit to" or "I pay homage to" (Õìùþäí, namo) was historically used in prayers to a chosen Buddha (for there are many) in East Asia, especially in the Pure Land sect. Sun Wukong is not only listed among the Buddhas ("I submit to the Buddha Victorious in Strife" or "....Victorious Fighting Buddha") but also in front of the Bodhisattvas, such as Guanyin.
 
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