5-A Kaguya Discussion (Naruto)

TheFinalOrder · Jul 30, 2018

I said I'd make this thread, ~~despite the fact it was volunteered for me and not of my own accord~~…but it's cool.

So here it is:

Preliminary Information:

Kaguya is currently rated as "5-B, 5-A with ETSB".

Kaguya's would be feat of destroying a dimension with her ETSB was calced to be 5-A.

This is where things stand. In this thread, it was discussed that That Kaguya's stats or whatever should be 5-A in general. The original OP was rejected, but my proposal (Paraphrasing):

"Kaguya's jutsu AP should be listed 5-A with IT Chakra, while her physical stats should just be listed as "Higher"".

Had gained support. In addition, my original proposal of simply "Higher" Physical stats and not 5-A was based on the General Showings in the Verse of Physical AP not scaling to Jutsu AP, but when @Golden Void brought it up, I remrmered that Naruto God Tiers have consistant feats of having Physical AP on par with their Jutsu AP. Even still, I'm not sure her ohysical stats should scale. There are no feats of her in a physical altercation after absorbing IT Chskra and crwating the ETSB, so it would only be conjecture, but i'll make my proposal at the bottom.

________________________________________

So, I want to post the translation of the ETSB first and foremost:

Here, the databook clearly states the ETSB is made through the absorbtion of IT Chakra.
It's accepted that the ETSB is 5-A solely due to IT Chakra, but given the nature of Naruto, Kaguya shouldn't be 5-A, ONLY with ETSB. She should be 5-A, with IT Chakra which was used to create the ETSB. And given how Chakra control works, all of Kaguya's Jutsu would scale to 5-A, or anywhere inbetween 5-B and the accepted Value of 5-A that the ETSB feat would have Given.

Proposal:

Kaguya AP: 5-B, 5-A with IT Chakra.

Kaguya Physical Stats (Striking/Dura): 5-B, Higher with IT Chakra (Possibly 5-A)

NOTE: Again, i'm not sure on the physical stats part. Her physical stats would definitely increase (Thus the "higher" part), but i'm not sure on the 5-A part. While God Tiers have consistent feats of Physical AP rivaling their Jutsu AP, Kaguya has no physical altercation after absorbing IT Chakra and creating ETSB. Thus she has no feat of it, which means it's 50/50 with circumstantial evidence for both sides.

So, that being said, let's discuss.

EDIT: NOTE2: This is OoC for Kaguya. Much like Yhwach with SR abilities. Also, because Kaguya has RinneSharingan in either form, this isn't a "form", so absorbing IT Chakra to boost her 5-B stats shouldn't be restricted as if it's another form.

Golden_Void · Jul 30, 2018

"Kaguya has no physical altercation after absorbing IT Chakra and creating ETSB. Thus she has no feat of it, which means it's 50/50 with circumstantial evidence for both sides. "

Its like you said, her only feat with IT chakra was making an ETSB, which boils this giant post back down to "5-B, 5-A with ETSB".

IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 · Jul 30, 2018

Yeah I'm in agreement with Void here. It also seems as if Kaguya uses all if not nearly the majority of the Chakra she gets from Divine Emergence + IT to make the ETSB. So she only has one 5-A ETSB shot.

BlackeJan · Jul 30, 2018

Wasnt Kaguya also weaker the moment she appeared? if so then she would have been even more powerful then her fight in anime/manga

LordGinSama · Jul 30, 2018

I agree with Golden Void.

PaChi2 · Jul 30, 2018

"Proposal:

Kaguya AP: 5-B, 5-A with IT Chakra"

Is basically saying 5-B, 5-A with ETSB.

Omimi · Jul 30, 2018

IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Yeah I'm in agreement with Void here. It also seems as if Kaguya uses all if not nearly the majority of the Chakra she gets from Divine Emergence + IT to make the ETSB. So she only has one 5-A ETSB shot.

no its more then one

1.destroying a dimension

2. then recreate that dimension

Kepekley23 · Jul 30, 2018

So? Imade's point is still the same bro.

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

you guys acting lik Kaguya doesnt have other jutsus lol, she should just be 5A with IT chakra since she coould have just used another jutsu instead of the ETSB to wipe out team 7. Thats the proposal. Thats how chakra works in Naruto anyway it doesnt make sense that her chakra is only strong when using one jutsu and not for others even tho the chakra itself is calced at 5A.

TataHakai · Jul 30, 2018

Golden Void said:
"Kaguya has no physical altercation after absorbing IT Chakra and creating ETSB. Thus she has no feat of it, which means it's 50/50 with circumstantial evidence for both sides. "

Didn't zetsu say something along the lines of she got way faster and stronger after absorbing the chakra?

Kepekley23 · Jul 30, 2018

Amped Kaguya is featless and nothing suggests a random jutsu while she was amped by it would be as strong as the ETSB. In fact, considering the TSB's function is pretty much destroying on a molecular level, an expanded TSB being the only thing in her arsenal able to destroy on a 5-A scale makes sense.

Ricsi-viragosi · Jul 30, 2018

it can be argued that her stats increas and thus she should give stat amp. 5-A is a no tough

Chibi14 · Jul 30, 2018

Even T5A is very debatable in my opinion because of the reason we don´t see how would destroy the planet in the whole and we hasn´t any info about the size of the Planet. Her durability and Ap is too weak to put her in T5A range...

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

narutos random jutsu were increased when he got SOSP chakra, logically it should be increased. There are other instances of this. Naruto broke Obitos TSB shields with rasengans, Sasukes susanno got as strong as Hag when he absorbed the tailed beasts chakra, Narutos' FRS and TB FRs got as strong as Indra's arrow after absorbing nature energy from the planet

Everything is suggesting that more chakra can be used to increase jutsu's attacks power. This may not be all the time but when it comes to God Tier characters it is

Dark649 · Jul 30, 2018

I agree with Kep, do you think we should make a discussion rules due to the many threads about Kaguya?.

Burning_Full_Fingers · Jul 30, 2018

More chakra means more potential for AP if you know how to use it properly. It doesn't matter if you're a white-eyed alien or not.

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

why a discussion rule?? THere arent lots of threads about Kaguya recently at all. This should actually be discussed cause it effects other ninjas and how they use chakra to increase their jutsus

Kepekley23 · Jul 30, 2018

Okay, you can start with the evidence that Kaguya's physicals are anywhere near her ETSB

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

i didnt agree with her physical stats being increased

Devoyant · Jul 30, 2018

Kepekley23 said:
Amped Kaguya is featless and nothing suggests a random jutsu while she was amped by it would be as strong as the ETSB. In fact, considering the TSB's function is pretty much destroying on a molecular level, an expanded TSB being the only thing in her arsenal able to destroy on a 5-A scale makes sense.

Except the databook explicitly stated techniques like Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack has the potential to be her strongest offensive technique, that's right Eighty Vacuum Attack could very be > ETSB, depending on the amount of chakra she uses to create the fists.

Devoyant · Jul 30, 2018

Golden Void said:
"Kaguya has no physical altercation after absorbing IT Chakra and creating ETSB. Thus she has no feat of it, which means it's 50/50 with circumstantial evidence for both sides. "

Its like you said, her only feat with IT chakra was making an ETSB, which boils this giant post back down to "5-B, 5-A with ETSB".

Physical feats =/= every other feats.

Are you going to ignore she was changing/summoning dimensions, and using offensive abilities such as Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack that has the potential to be her strongest attack..?

Devoyant · Jul 30, 2018

IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Yeah I'm in agreement with Void here. It also seems as if Kaguya uses all if not nearly the majority of the Chakra she gets from Divine Emergence + IT to make the ETSB. So she only has one 5-A ETSB shot.

If that were true, her speed and strength wouldn't have been increased exponentially AFTER she had formed ETSB.

Kepekley23 · Jul 30, 2018

Except the databook is wrong since Naruto briefly managed to counter Eighty Gods Vacuum while the ETSB would've killed him and Kakashi wouldn't have been able to Kamui it. Their only counter was basically not letting it go through.

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

tbf that EGV didnt have IT CHakra tho so we shouldnt use it to say naruto could manage to keep up when it wasnt even using the same chakra as IT. When the DB talks about Kaguya's power it mentions alot about her power that she had before she gave it away. Her EGV attack's statement could be talking about then when she was at full power.

Im pretty sure EGV would have killed them too if it was powered by IT chakra, and ESTB had a huge AOE so i dont expect them survive somethign anyway that is 5A compared to a 5B EGV

Kepekley23 · Jul 30, 2018

Saying that the databook was referring to some sort of IT amped fist is very likely to be headcanon.

I also want the screenshot.

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

tbh we dotn know what the DB was referring to but its said EGV is her strongest attack

ill try to find a link

Kepekley23 · Jul 30, 2018

The ETSB's feat puts it far above EGV which was countered by Naruto. Feats > databook tidbits.

LordGriffin1000 · Jul 30, 2018

If EGV was her strongest attack then instead of wasting the chakra on that slow charge ETSB, she would have just flew over near them and just bodied them with it considereding it doesn't require the time to charge like ETSB and would have been just as powerful.

The_real_cal_howard · Jul 30, 2018

Kep, you started that slippery slope when you got databooks unbanned ovo.

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

https://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Eighty_Gods_Vacuum_Attack

she wanted to recreate her dimension as a whole so thats why she used the ESTB.

ProfessorKukui4Life · Jul 30, 2018

I think that by "powerful" its just talking about physical strength since EGV is a palm attack of strikes, while ETSB is a different type of move entirely.

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

also of course ESTB will have higher feats compared to a 5B attack, its powered by 5A chakra

Kepekley23 · Jul 30, 2018

"Offensive" in this case clearly refers to physical strength, assuming a NarutoWikia tidbit is even reliable. How people can take that to mean that it's above the ETSB I really don't know, no offense.

Devoyant · Jul 30, 2018

Kepekley23 said:
Except the databook is wrong since Naruto briefly managed to counter Eighty Gods Vacuum while the ETSB would've killed him and Kakashi wouldn't have been able to Kamui it. Their only counter was basically not letting it go through.

Except ETSB wasn't going to kill him if we equalize it with TSB (which you did) as Naruto is immuned to TSB. Also Naruto momentarily countering it doesn't mean anything by the virtue Kaguya easily overpowered him instantly.

LordGriffin1000 · Jul 30, 2018

ProfessorKukui4Life said:
I think that by "powerful" its just talking about physical strength since EGV is a palm attack of strikes, while ETSB is a different type of move entirely.

I can agree with this.

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

Kepekley23 said:
"Offensive" in this case clearly refers to physical strength, assuming a NarutoWikia tidbit is even reliable. How people can take that to mean that it's above the ETSB I really don't know, no offense.

do you have the DB then??

Rasengan is offensive chakra attack just like EGV. Offensive does not all ways mean phyiscal strenght and espeically not in this context when she wasnt phyiscally touching Naruto.

Devoyant · Jul 30, 2018

Withal, Naruto, Kakashi and Sasuke were more worried that they won't be able to reach Kaguya if they allow ETSB to expand more, than the suggestion it was going to kill them, which implies they probably knew it won't kill them.

Kepekley23 · Jul 30, 2018

Offensive in this case is an obvious reference to physical strength, considering this is a physical attack and it mentions the Byakugan, which the Hyuugas use to seal tenketsu in a striking strength match.

AstralKing7 · Jul 30, 2018

speaking of tiers can someone fix Onokis page lol, have you guys not seen what his rating his based off of or am i mssing something?? I could have sworn we didnt acccept his particle style to be able to destroy on the atomic level. Cause we already dont have TSb on the atomic leve

Kepekley23 · Jul 30, 2018

@Devoyant

Why was Kakashi considering escaping the dimension (before discarding it due to her ability to folow them) if he thought they'd have been able to handle it?

5-A Kaguya Discussion (Naruto)

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