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Medaka vs Gilgamesh: The Return

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ApiesDeathbyLazors

ApiesDeathbyLazors

He/Him
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So I feel like last time this fight happened, All Fiction wasn't really well understood here and because of that, a few things got left out of the debate. Now don't misunderstand me, I love Medaka Box. It's a fantastic and fun manga, but I would much rather have accurate results then padding for my favorite characters. If this is an unnessasry retread then sweet, that's cool. I just feel it should be addressed.

AND PLEASE, EVERYONE. STAY CIVIL AND POLITE. Please compose well reasoned arguments for each character.

Anyway, End God Mode Medaka(5-C) vs Original Power Gilgamesh(5-A), Speed Equalized, SBA.

A blog detailing All Fictio

Ea also ha a page

Medaka Kurokami

Gilgamesh (Fate Series)
 
What was the reason Medaka won last time? I don't currently have time to go through the thread and I can't remember exactly what the argument was.
 
IIRC it was All Ficton revival, which is why I revived this match. I don't remember Ea being brought up much at all, which should counter All Fiction handely. This sick feeling of dread just won't go away. It might be the meatloaf though.
 
All Fiction is the only form of EE in Medaka Box, and it can't erase it's own effects. It's never displayed to work if the user no longer exsists either.

Alright, I'm off to bed. Yall fight amonst yourselves.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Alright, I'm off to bed. Yall fight amonst yourselves.
Click to expand...
^^^^

I take back the "ty".

PS: My blog was actually used in a fight. I think i should put it in every "medaka" thread, since All Fiction is a bitch to understand.
 
K so let's go over facts here:

The Hero is restricted cus...name 1 non stomp fight that has Medaka with The Hero on.

All Fiction is not EE. It's Causality Erasure. I explained in the blog why Causality Erasure > EE. @Apies....All Fiction can undo its own effects doe. Non fiction doesn't exactly exist. It's just what happens when All Fiction gets good enough to be able to erase the "undo" it did. And Medaka is a perfectionist. She perfects something. Imma clarify this part while im at it. If a user can use a skill at 10% (his version is trash, so think Kumagawa only being able to erase ppl), Medaka uses something at 100% (she will have all the conceptual erasure and non fiction). If someone were to use it at 100% she would use it at 120%. That was stated in the series (it doesn't rly affect anything rly, it was just a bit of info). So yeah Medaka has full power All Fiction along with Non Fiction.

Now on to why Medaka wins...again:

Bookmaker. Bookmaker is by far 1 of the strongest skills in the series so All Fiction being useless (even though it's not) is no big deal. Gil has defensive shit...Bookmaker has durability negation and bypasses defensive hax. It's also considered power null/seal so it takes precedence in actions. Bookmaker will seal before EA is summoned, closing the deal.

Medaka didn't win because of All Fiction last time. She is literally too much for Gil. Any of his weapons get trashed by Encounter, chains get trashed by Scar Dead, EA gets Mister Unkown'd (get it? Get's Owned xD). Then copy dude. Gil summons EA, Medaka passively copies his skill to summon shit and all that other stuff and becomes a better gil.

I still vote Medaka, though pls make this Bloodlusted. I feel like Bloodlust Medaka has a better chance vs Lavos than she does in character vs normal dudes xD. I srsly don't wanna get start arguing why Medaka would take this in character and have ppl counter argue me till it becomes a shit show.
 
Gil summons EA, Medaka passively copies his skill to summon shit and all that other stuff and becomes a better gil.

Impossible. His powers are item based. Unless she has the key of the king's law, she can't access his treasury. Even if she could, everything in Gil's treasury pales in comparison to Ea, which would knock them all out of the park the moment she fires them.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Impossible. His powers are item based. Unless she has the key of the king's law, she can't access his treasury. Even if she could, everything in Gil's treasury pales in comparison to Ea, which would knock them all out of the park the moment she fires them.
Click to expand...
It's not like this contributes to the battle. As Medaka has many more ways to win, but won't copying the gate of babylon as a whole give access to EA?

Also, item based...tell that to Unzen and Munakata, poor guys.
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
And what would she do with Ea? Kill herself?
Click to expand...
Use it defensively and becoming therefore immune to Gil's EA. (to explain, she copies EA and when she's hit with EA, she uses her EA, to protect herself against Gil's EA, cus apparently when something is mastered to perfection it can be used defensively).

It's just something, though u don't have to count that. She copies EA, she becomes an objectively stronger Gil, all possible options of winning are out of the window.
 
1. Has she ever copied something like Ea?

2. Can she survive space-time devour that happens when Ea is activated? Being the user doesn't mean you are protected from the effect.

3. Don't see how you can master Ea to perfection. It's not a skill or a technique.
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
1. Has she ever copied something like Ea?
2. Can she survive space-time devour that happens when Ea is activated? Being the user doesn't mean you are protected from the effect.

3. Don't see how you can master Ea to perfection. It's not a skill or a technique.
Click to expand...
1. Null, not needed in the thread for Medaka to win i was just mentioning shit.

2. All Fiction, Time Stop, Null, need i continue?

3. So 1y/o gil can use EA just as good as he can now?
 
Attempting to copy Ea would break her mind. In fact, seeing as she automatically copies what she sees, just looking at it breaks her mind.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Attempting to copy Ea would break her mind. In fact, seeing as she automatically copies what she sees, just looking at it breaks her mind.
Click to expand...
Why would that happen?

Also break her mind....bookmaker failed to do so, EA ain't acomplishing it. xD
 
It would happen because it is not possible to copy it. It is a unique existence even among other unique existences, and something that can only belong to Gilgamesh. Just looking at it was causing Shirou Emiya headaches, who can copy weapons down to their history and soul. If he had tried to copy it, his mind would have broken.

Bookmaker is not designed to break the mind. It's designed to bring the person down to the user's level.
 
While I mostly agree with you Monarch, Bookmaker does involve mind-breaking. Whether that's its primary intent or not, it shatters the opponent's psyche to the point that they become a Minus, and are twisted into a nihilistic, borderline-omnicidal shell of their former self. And Medaka seemed to develop a resistance to it.
 
It is pretty much designed to do that doe. No one other than Medaka would have been able to continue the fight after that mind break. Also it completely shuts down the mind and Medaka resisted that. Headaches aren't gonna break her.

As for those 2 skills, they're like weak versions of GoB. They allow u to keep weapons.
 
Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
While I mostly agree with you Monarch, Bookmaker does involve mind-breaking. Whether that's its primary intent or not, it shatters the opponent's psyche to the point that they become a Minus, and are twisted into a nihilistic, borderline-omnicidal shell of their former self. And Medaka seemed to develop a resistance to it.
Click to expand...
^^^^
 
Also I don't think Medaka can copy access to the gate. She could certainly copy his skill at wielding the weapons (negligible as it may be), but she'd have to get her hands on them the old-fashioned way.
 
"They allow you to keep weapons"

That's it? And you think that is going to let her copy GoB? Ok, let me go over why that's a terrible argument.

First, they are still personal abilities that don't require access to the Key of the King's Law to use. Medaka needs the Key to use GoB. She doesn't have the key, she can't use the ability. Second, "keeping weapons" is not even close to something that grants access to the repository of all human invention, including legendary weapons from nearly every hero in existence and the retroactive addition of items created to it, and it is a huge fallacy to assume one is equivalent to the other.
 
Also, what bookkeeper does to people's minds is different to what Ea does. Bookkeeper alters their mind to the user's level, which in misogi's case was a nihilistic borderline omnicidal psychopath. Ea breaks their minds because they are trying to comprehend something that cannot be comprehended, amd copy something that cannot be copied, and their mind breaks from the effort.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Also, what bookkeeper does to people's minds is different to what Ea does. Bookkeeper alters their mind to the user's level, which in misogi's case was a nihilistic borderline omnicidal psychopath. Ea breaks their minds because they are trying to comprehend something that cannot be comprehended, amd copy something that cannot be copied, and their mind breaks from the effort.
Click to expand...
Which is pretty much similar. Kumagawa is not a psychopath (i mean he is), but that's doesn't explain why they get their mind shut down. Their bodies cannot handle being in Kumagawa's state. EA, their minds cannot handle to see something like this. Also breaks from effort...u serious? xD. Medaka is basically that on cracks. Oudo tried to steal her powers, he was instantly reformed and started calling himself human instead of a king, that's how much he shit his pants from Medaka.

Medaka won't copy EA, i said she "may" copy gate of babylon. Though can't she just recreate gate of babylon without needing the key?
 
Honestly, I never thought Gilgamesh could win this.

No matter what he does, she can All Fiction herself back.

I was just countering some of your incorrect points.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
I was just countering some of your incorrect points.
Click to expand...
Ok then ty for that. Now...we can still agree Gil takes this? I mean there is something i don't get. Why was this re-done? I mean i did the Medaka vs Hiiragi/Kriemhild cus i removed the in character but nothing changed here.
 
Because from what I see, most, if not all, votes last time used "she erases Gil" argument. In the meantime, we agreed Gil resists existence erasure.

And I wonder where his Independent Manifestation is?
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
Because from what I see, most, if not all, votes last time used "she erases Gil" argument. In the meantime, we agreed Gil resists existence erasure.
And I wonder where his Independent Manifestation is?
Click to expand...
Existence Erasure =/= Causality Erasure

Also All Fiction is conceptual on a universe level. Doubt he has resisted sth like that. But then again....Bookmaker.
 
So she can't even erase existence?

I personally haven't seen this "universal All Fiction" accepted anywhere.

What kind of power application is Bookmarker? Also, "it should possibly be able to replicate its durability ignoring effects, although this is uncertain." this is written on her page.
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
So she can't even erase existence?
I personally haven't seen this "universal All Fiction" accepted anywhere.

What kind of power application is Bookmarker? Also, "it should possibly be able to replicate its durability ignoring effects, although this is uncertain." this is written on her page.
Click to expand...
Causality Erasure > Existence Erasure xD. Cus CE erases it from every timeline, completely erasing the fact that it has ever existed or done anything in the world. Also just read my blog on All Fiction.

All Fiction is accepted universal doe.

Unknow with All Fiction (It was stated that his lack of full control over his powers could wind up with him erasing all of existence

^^^^ This is actually universal+ to multiversal in scale, since there are multiple universes in Medaka Box.

Bookmaker has been accepted as a Seal, Power null and Durability Negation. It bypasses defensive shit (hax included) and directly seals everything even talent, hax etc etc. So Gil won't be able to use EA anymore (he will actually fall uncosncious due to the drop in power, but eh). Bookmaker is just another name for Insta Win Condition xD.
 
All Fiction has multiversal range?
Gil still has resistance to both existence erasure and causality manipulation, and I would like some proof that universal All Fiction was accepted, seeing as the rating is "unknown".

Seal and Power Null, both resisted by Gilgamesh. Durability negation is stated to be uncertain.
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
All Fiction has multiversal range?
Gil still has resistance to both existence erasure and causality manipulation, and I would like some proof that universal All Fiction was accepted, seeing as the rating is "unknown".
Seal and Power Null, both resisted by Gilgamesh. Durability negation is stated to be uncertain.
Click to expand...
Well that's what im doubting a bit. In the AP they said "all of existence" but in the range they say "universal". So idk how much was accepted exactly. But let's just go by feats: It erased the concept of colors from the (he said world, and it was above planetary so...from the mutliverse?). Let's just say from the universe here doe.

Yeah the thing is, Gil is not going to resist something that took This Girl (a character who is so op we keep it at unknown cus she's from a parody manga) down.
 
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