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Ichigo kurosaki vs Natsu Dragneel

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Natsu can absorb ichigo GT, however if ichigo uses the GT very close, natsu will not be able to defend itself, since ichigo can attack it while natsu absorbs it, Ichigo also has advantage of Ap and is more willing to kill than Natsu .

Voting in ichigo

I really do not know if the flames of Natsu will help much, since Royd managed to fight Yama in his bankai.

Is speed enhancement allowed?
 
Seems like a one side match. I mean, what Natsu has that is better than Ichigo's? (Other that speed, which got equalized).

AP: Ichigo scales above 24 teratons while Natsu only scales above 17. And Ichigo's 6-B scaling is much better than Natsu's.

Skills: While Natsu isn't a pushover by any mean, Ichigo is just better fighter by facing far more experience and trained fighter despite not having a proper training himself.

Overall abilities: Speed boost, flight, energy absorption, extrasensory perception are more useful here than Natsu's p.null which he only probably used against hax user opponent.

Range: Alright, Natsu has this. But won't matter anyway since both preferred CQC.
 
Dammit, I was gonna do this match....

Anyway, Ichigo

Assuming this is 7FDM Natsu the only advantage Natsu has is that he's more versatile, and all that only amounts to is infusing other elements in his fire attacks and eating said elements, in which Ichigo doesn't use at all.

Ichigo has the speed advantage with Shunpo and I wish Hirenkyaku and Sonido.


the AP for being >> His Dangai Version >> Monster Aizen > Shikai Kenpachi > Gremmy who had a 24 teraton feat against Natsu who is >> RoT Human Acno >> Dragon Acno >> SFD Natsu > FH Zeref > Etherion which has a 17 tera feat.

And added on that it'll be even harder to damage Ichigo with Zangetsu accessing Blut to prevent that

Ichigo low-diff
 
Why does Ichigo get a speed advantage from Shunpo? I'm fairly certain that Shunpo is their maximum movement speed, which is different from their combat speed regardless.
 
Eh, Ichigo takes it. Natsu's best shot would be his speed advantage, but since speed is equal it won't really help.

Even though the fight will still be close fought. Ichigo simply has a little more skill and a little more AP, and since Natsu doesn't have any real advantages except range, which won't help much since both are brawler types, Ichigo high diff.
 
@Hst Master

Neither has the speed advantage, speed is equalized. Nor does Ichigo honestly use blut in character. IIRC, he's only used it once, and that was involuntarily.

@Homu Sweet Homu

I'm honestly not understanding the argument that says that Natsu is a less skilled fighter. Natsu is incredibly skilled in CQC, it's literally all he really does through the entire series. Such as during the fight against Sting and Rouge, when Natsu could use the rhythm of their breathing to counteract them, in addition to knowing the placement of their feet, down to their overall defense posture. If anything, the two are equal in CQC. Though if Natsu managed to disarm Ichigo, he would be at a great disadvantage, as the majority of his CQC combat involves his blade skills, his Zanjutsu prowess.

@Kazui

Natsu has absorbed Jackal's explosions by having the latter's fist literally inside of his mouth at the time. Biting down on Zangetsu to absorb a Getsuga as it's coming out wouldn't be that much different. Looking at their skills, Natsu can close the AP gap by absorbing Ichigo's Getsuga Tencho's, while Ichigo can't do the same with Natsu's flames. With the AP gap mostly bridged, speed equalized, and the two being fairly equal in CQC, this is more leaning towards inconclusive. Ichigo doesn't have a plethora of abilities that he uses in character, and the versatility that Natsu has don't seem like they'll be anymore effective than his typical flames.
 
I'm going for Natsu since he can absorb GT, which means he would be boosted by Ichigo's power allowing him to be more powerful, also this is the same Natsu that One shot another 6-B, so I give it to him
 
Actually, now that I think of it, Natsu's skill should be above Ichigos. But Ichigo has a slight AP advantage. Switching to inconclusive.


Also I don't think Natsu can absorb GT
 
If Natsu absorbs a Getsuga Tenshō, his stamina is going to be hit hard, and he's not going to last long. It almost always happens when dragon slayers absorb a foreign attack that's not related to their own element.

By the way, Ichigo can use his ranged attacks to distract Natsu and flash step behind him. I don't know how useful that would be. And he has a large stamina advantage. If they're mostly evenly matched, stamina really counts.
 
I mean, it's kinda hard to predict that.

The first time he tried to absorb Laxus' lightning, he was out sick. The second time, he obtained the power as a permanent power up. When he ate Zancrow's flames, he just had to do it in a specific way, otherwise he couldn't eat them.

Though this is 7FDM Natsu, so he's likely to have less issues absorbing foreign elements given how many foreign ones he already has absorbed with zero side effects.

I do agree on the stamina issue, however.
 
@Teon

Speed Enhancement techniques are allowed, Ichigo does in fact have the speed advantage and to add on Ichigo learned Shunpo when he learned Bankai.

Yhwach-Zangetsu is the one who activates Blut.

He's not absorbing GT without consequences, for example look at when he ate Etherion, he got Dragon Force but was then sick for 3 days, his best course of action for eating to replenish his magic is Air since that's the only thing that's actually plentiful and won't do more harm than good.
 
@Hst Master

I don't recall shunpo being a speed enhancement, but rather, a movement technique. If you could provide a scan showing otherwise I would appreciate it.

If eating GT is like eating etherion, the boost he would get would be rather outrageous. But, as I've mentioned above, he's eaten multiple different things with various consequences. It also comes down to whether or not he can actually digest something. It would be wrong to assume any one thing. Worst case he'd be incapacitated. Best case, he'd be perfectly fine, powered up, and fully capable of using that form of attack as his own.
 
There is no Scans explaining Shunpo, however there is the fact that Ichigo could react to and counter Byakuya without it and then later Blitz him once he learned it himself

MR-19531-303619-15
 
That doesn't really prove much. Ichigo received a buff in all his stats during that period as he was learning that technique. If there's no concrete evidence that Shunpo provides a speed buff as opposed to just being a movement technique, then Ichigo doesn't have the speed advantage here.
 
If shunpo is not a speed amp and such then I don't know what do you think it is, a technique to make your movement sounds cooler? The description of Shunpo (þ×¼µ¡®, Flash Steps) is a movement technique which allows the user to move faster than the eye can follow. Meaning it can increase your speed. Heck, even several occassion shunpo and sonido can be seen to act like pseudo-teleportation.

For example:

  • Tosen use shunpo to avoid Hisagi's shikai. His movement bypassing the obstacle like seemingly ignore the Hisagi's blade as if Tosen move backwards or jump away then logically the blade should have stop him or at least still hit him.
  • And Starrk here. Traveling short distances using Sonido. And Sonido is Shunpo for Arrancar.
Kubo was make it clear there's a difference between normal movement and the movement with shunpo and stuff, otherwise kubo won't bother creating a technique for movement for each race (Sonido, Hirenkyaku, Shunpo and Light Bringers) if the said technique doesn't affect the speed of the user.
 
Once again, if you can't provide a scan, then I'm not sure how you can prove such. Each race uses reiatsu in a fundamentally different way, so each has different techniques for movement speed.

Being faster than the eye does not meaen a speed amp. Otherwise, any movement of subsonic or faster would be a speed amp. This is simply not the case. A speed amp is an increase in speed. Thus far, with what you all have shown me, Shunpo, Sonido, Hirenkyaku, and Light Bringers are specific movement skills that allow for potentially faster movement. If walking is 1 m/s, then this movement skill is, say, 10 m/s. But it's not an amp to their speed. Their speed is scaled to their reactions, and there's no evidence that has been provided that says that Shunpo is significantly faster than their reactions.

It's like the difference between walking and running. One is simply a technique that allows the user to move faster, but does not amp their speed, it's simply more efficient at the movement itself. Shunpo doesn't inherently increase speed but rather, decreases the number of steps taken to get from point A to point B. If there are no scans proving otherwise, then the arguments are invalid.
 
>One is simply a technique that allows the user to move faster, but does not amp their speed.

???

I don't follow, move more efficeint? Look, I showed you the scan that shunpo can act like pseudo-teleportation so it's fairly safe to assume it increase speed in short burst as most of the user of shunpo and sonido is shown to able appear suddenly behind their enemy and surprising them and remember they can react to that because they can still sense eachother.

And remember Sonido of Vasto Lorde Ichigo stated by Ulquiorra himself to bypass his pesquisa. Meaning it allow the Ichigo to be faster than Ulquiorra's reaction and his senses.
 
Kirinji said "it takes a week using shunpo", it means he can choose to use shunpo or not, if shunpo case was not speed amplifier then he would have no choice but to use shunpo if you think Dot did not provide no good check of which shunpo is not velocity amprimoramento, then shunpo should be considered teleporte, because if this is not speed enhancement I do not know what it is.
 
I'm still not seeing a scan.

Shunpo and their regular movement is like the difference between walking and running. Does running provide humans with a sudden speed amp? No, it doesn't. A speed amp would be an increase beyond their typical maximum level of speed. If Ichigo went from running to flash stepping, is this suddenly an increase in his maximum speed? No. It's simply that he wasn't using his maximum speed at that particular moment. These 'bursts' of speed are simply him moving at his maximum travel speed, as Shunpo is described as decreasing the number of steps it takes to get from point A to point B, in a similar way that running involves taking longer strides than walking.

Vasto lorde Ichigo was far superior to Ulquiorra in general, so that example is not truly valid here.
 
Ichigo should take this for the reasons stated above. Also Natsu has never shown to eat anything energy related. So unless he's shown eating an energy blast before, he's not eating the getsuga tensho.
 
Fair enough. But saying that he can't eat energy is false. The side effects are unknown (etherion, iirc, had raw magical energy in it as well), but he has eaten energy before.
 
you mean a small chunk of rock that's built to absorb all different types of magic at once? One of which is fire, which helped natsu eat it in the end?
 
@Lit

There's no difference yet he's capable of blitzing Renji and Aize both instances were without Shunpo

There's also the fact that Hirenkyaku allows Quincies to keep up with people who are blatantly faster for example Quilge vs Ichigo
 
<Both instances were without Shunpo

Speed Equal kinda negates that speed as Natsu Stomps if it wasn't
 
Yes, actually. But that also blatantly ignores the energetic properties, as well as the fact that he's eaten lightning, which is a form of energy. No one is saying that it's the best idea, or that it would have no side affects. Just that he can do it, and it may or may not be effective.

@Hst master

That still does not clarify it enough. Nor does it object to the fact that shunpo is decreasing the number of steps one has to take to get from point A to point B. Similar to running, where one has to take longer and faster strides. It's like the difference between a person walking towards someone, and sprinting at them full force. They're moving faster, yes, but not due to a speed amp, but due to them actually moving closer to their maximum speed. Shunpo is a technique, just like running. A technique that allows one to move at maximum speed. For humans, that technique is running. For Shinigami, it's shunpo. Is there no scan in Bleach explaining what shunpo is?
 
Huh, tf Natsu ain't eating Getsuga Tenshou. It's an attack of condensed spiritual energy so how would that be possible? And he was only able to absorb Etherion due to it having fire magic. The other types of magic in etherion knocked him tf out.
 
I feel like a scan from when he learned what shunpo is would directly settle the point here, as to whether or not it's a speed amplification technique.
 
Shunpo isn't a speed amp it's a skill that allows one to reach from point A to point B in the fewest amount of steps while moving faster than the eye can follow of course.

This varies from person to person and the speed of Shunpo is entirely dependent on the individual. But in this case it is an advantage Ichigo has over Natsu
 
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