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Shin Megami Tensei Revisions / Updates

Ultima_Reality

Ultima_Reality

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VS Battles
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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Ultima_Reality/Shin_Megami_Tensei_Explanation_Blog

As you can see, the Shin Megami Tensei profiles are extremely outdated and fail at conveying the capabilities of the characters, so i made this Blog to help in the Upgrades / Updates that the profiles will undergo

Changes in the Profiles

  • High-Godly Regenerationn for all Demons, as well as Non-Corporeality, Abstract Existence and Acausality
  • Expanding the explanations in their Attack Potency and Powers and Abilities sections to properly convey their overall capabilities
In the case of abilities that come from in-game skills, we should change the descriptions in the parentheses to explanations of what the character in question can do, rather than naming a bunch of redundant abilities in the same parenthesis and writing vague explanations about what they can do. Therefore

"Instant Death (Through Retribution, God's Judgement and God's Breath Undodgeable Almighty Spell which has 100% chance of Killing a foe)"

Will be changed to this:

"Death Manipulation (Capable of instantly killing comparable entities through the act of pointing at their direction)"

Things to be Discussed

  • The fact that stronger Demons can supposedly no-sell Hax from weaker ones
  • The placement of characters who are currently 2-B or higher for unjustified reasons such as Gabriel, Michael and Parvati
  • Masakado and Ishtar's tierings, and the former's placement at the 2-A powerscalling chain of the verse
  • Possible Hax Resistance for the Protagonists
  • Possible upgrades to High 2-A (probably a discussion for latter)
So... Yeah
Have this cute pic:

C5DfMqPWMAMJi6R
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I absolutely agree. This blog is so great and I'm really happy with how its turning out c:
Click to expand...
This.

Now, we should focus on the things to be discussed.
 
So much work it makes all the stuff I've done or seen done absolutely pale in comparison. Good job, man.
 
Thanks Kep! Glad people liked my blog ^ _ ^

So... I think now is a good time to discuss the "no-sell Hax from weaker people" thingy
 
We have a cute Picture of Satan boobs but no Mara in the Chariot? >:v

Also, we'll put the name of the Skills in the Attacks, techniques and abilities section of the profile?
 
>Comparing Satan to Mara

howdareyou

Yes, i think so. If someone is willing to edit the pages to insert an Techniques and Abilities section, that is
 
Wait, where does the High-Godly regen come from? From your blog, it sounded like stupidly good Mid-Godly.
 
It comes from the fact that Demons don't need Humans to remain in existence, and can regenerate even after the entirety of the Multiverse has been completely erased across all of time

Additionally, Demons return to The Axiom upon their deaths and reform from it
 
I agree with this

For the hax resistance thing, I'm currently going through Digital Devil Saga 2 and I've discovered a few things.

Demons have a natural resistance to Petrification and Transmutation. In Digital Devil Saga 2, there is this phenomenon in the world known as the "Black Sun" in which the sun releases corrupted data that spreads a disease known as Cuvier Syndrome. This disease immediately turns anyone exposed to the sun's rays to stone. Demons are shown and stated to be completely immune to this.

In Digital Devil Saga 1, there is this antagonist named Bat has this move called "Zotzilaha Bane" that turns people into...well bats. He spams this move constantly throughout the fight. Yet despite being transformed, Serph and his party can still perfectly use all of their skills and abilities as if they were unaffected by it. Plus, they can break out of the transformation in just a few turns.

Also, Humans and Demons should have some resistance to Mind Manipulation. Most demons have access to Mind Attacks, such as Charm and Confusion, that they use frequently against the Protagonists across the series. Even when affected by it, Humans and Demons always end up overcoming it and breaking free of the influence. If they didn't have some form of resistance to Mind Hax, then they wouldn't be able to defeat many of the demons since a lot of them, such as Mara, spam Mind Hax as shown during his encounters in SMTIV Apocalypse.
 
@Aridwolverine

This seems interesting, and i agree that Demons should have Resistance to Mind Manipulation, since they actually resisted the mind-altering effects of the hymn of the Angels before Zelenin raised the output of the song in Strange Journey, if i recall correctly

As for the Transmutation thingy... Something similar actually happens in Nocturne. In it, Baal Avatar, one of the last bosses you fight in the game, has a spell named "Bael's Bane", where she turns you into a fly. Yet, the Demi-Fiend and his party are actually capable of using their skills in spite of this, although they get a lot weaker

Nocturne also has some showings of the Demi-Fiend resisting Fate Manipulation and Existence Erasure
 
Yeah. They say they will destroy the Demi-Fiend's destiny before engaging in a fight with him

Then he goes "lolk" and punches them anyway
 
Ok.

How about the EE? The only thing I remember is Kagu saying that his light would wipe the Demi-fiend from existence.
 
This is where the resistance to Existence Erasure comes from, yes. Since Kagutsuchi also gets punched by the Demi-Fiend shortly after he threatens the latter with this ― Kagutsuchi's death also caused the destruction of all of existence and of the very concept of Time, yet stronger Demons were fine and didn't need to regenerate, unlike weaker ones such as Forneus
 
Thanks for the clarification.

I agree with the OP and the resistances you mentioned. I just have to ask what is the reasoning for High 2-A? Is it from scaling to Canopus?
 
Yeah, Matt said High 2-A SMT is possible since characters like Canopus and Polaris view the Multiverse as a computer program they administer (Although... I have my doubts regarding that based on some stuff i have read)
 
There is also Ishtar seeing the Universe as a game she observes from the outside, although i am 90% sure this can't be quantified
 
Btw,i agree with everything here.But i think we really should discuss here were we put the 2B characters.Its either 2A or 2C.
 
Ishtar breaks the 4th Wall constantly in Catherine, even pausing the game with a remote controller and having it zoom-out to reveal it was a projection on a Television Screen.
 
Yeah, that's what i always thinking about. Although i wonder if it would warrant anything since... She does all of this from outside of the universe / the game
 
Why Abstract Existence?

From what I've seen, Demons aren't actually the concept they embody. They exist as long as said concept exist, sure, but they would need to be a living concept to qualify, not just rely on it to exist. The fact that they can be temporarily "killed" without affecting their concepts and that they need to come back from being killed works against that.
 
Demons are 100% abstract. They are literally thought-form and they aren't physical existences, just conceptual data.
 
That would imply that they can't be touched in the first place by anyone who doesn't have conceptual manipulation (Which means that they could be killed), which doesn't seem to be the case here.
 
Being Abstract doesn't mean you need conceptual manipulation to be affected. I don't know where you got that from. Demons are generally Abstract Ideas turned into physical shape, or specific stories / concepts / legends made real through human Observation. They are textbook abstract.
 
Also Demons can apear as a pure information in the phisical World, See all of Strange Journey/Deep Strange Journey and the Fusions

Edit: also, we have to scaling everione to have Mudo/Hama or the LuckStat to Luck/Probability Manipulatios no? or attack in base on this?
 
I think Gabriel and the other Archangels should be "likely 2-A" via not being that weaker than Michael.Other 2-B should either scale to the Archangels or scale to 2-C demons.
 
I never understood Michael's current's rating to be honest, and scalling him to Odin is just... wrong, considering that Odin somehow scales to a Flynn who was on Lucifer and Merkabah's level at the time. So... Yeah, the current scalling doesn't make much sense

Also, I think we should remove the parts about helping Aleph against YHVH from Satan and Lucifer's profiles. It is misleading and messes up with the whole scalling, considering both of them are fragmented pieces of YHVH
 
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