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Zoom (DC, Hunter Zolomon) Rework

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For post crisis, I am not sure tbh. Now that I think back about it, Zoom isn't keeping up with them, he is just accelerating/de-accelerating time and some level of perception manip for himself
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
If I'm not mistaken, that was the only point of contention left to fix. Everything else was accepted.

Confluctor and/or Eficiente may correct me on that. But for me, everything else is fine.
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So is this fine to apply then, Confluctor and Eficiente?
 
Confluctor said:
Everything is fine sans the speed and reaction stuff - still in discussion ig
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How about something like this:

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic normally (Was faster than Murmur before gaining his powers who is comparable to his fellow Rouges; who sees other DC street tiers outside of Keystone City in slow motion), Time Dilation via the Forever Force allows him to accelerate, slow down, or stop his own time as much as he wants which enables him to fight characters who're far faster than him normally
 
To me that mostly seems fine to apply, but shouldn't we specify that he can fight characters with up to Infinite speed via the Forever Force?
 
Okay, so is it only a late Post-Flashpoint continuity feature? I think that it should count for Rebirth as well though, given that it is a mixed continuity.
 
Okay. I am not sure precisely what you want to do here, but that is likely due to that I have to jump too quickly between different revision threads.
 
Confluctor said:
The forever force stuff happened in the mid part of Flash 2016 by Williamson. Most specifically Flash War
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I'm going to be completely genuine here; I got no idea what you're talking about here. Hunter didn't have the Forever Force during the Flash War, he regained it near the end of the Force Quest arc is like in late 2019. Unless you're talking about the time DC tried to merge Hunter and Thawne into one character...but that was in New 52.

Confluctor said:
I think making a completely new file for new 52 RF is better since he was amalgamation of Hunter and Thawne. So that won't really affect these files rn from what I can see.
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Well afaik New 52 RF is just going to become a different key for Thawne's Rebirth page. Unless you're talking about Daniel West ofc
 
Nvm I confused the forever force with something else, my bad.

But in any case, new 52 RF - the yellow one - was an amalgamation of Hunter and Thawne - more Thawne than Hunter but still. I think a new file might be better but key can work for now.
 
Okay, so can somebody straighten out what we should do here please? In a more specific sense regarding what should be applied exactly.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay, so can somebody straighten out what we should do here please? In a more specific sense regarding what should be applied exactly.
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Confluctor is just suggesting that New 52 Thawne (which basically is DC's attempt at merging Hunter and Thawne into the same character to clear confusion) should get a profile but... y'know that's a topic more for the other Reverse-Flash thread
Antvasima said:
To me that mostly seems fine to apply, but shouldn't we specify that he can fight characters with up to Infinite speed via the Forever Force?
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Would saying that it enables him to fight a Speed Force Amped Wally be enough?
 
CowHeadGod said:
Confluctor is just suggesting that New 52 Thawne (which basically is DC's attempt at merging Hunter and Thawne into the same character to clear confusion) should get a profile but... y'know that's a topic more for the other Reverse-Flash thread
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Well, I personally wouldn't mind if he applies his idea.
CowHeadGod said:
Would saying that it enables him to fight a Speed Force Amped Wally be enough?
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We should probably mention both in combination.
 
Why are we making entirely new pages for both Post-Crisis and "DC Rebirth" Hunter Zolomon? I'm not particularly "up to key" on all the DC Comics "crises" and continuity alterations, but I'm pretty sure that Post-Crisis and Post-Rebirth Hunter Zolomon share the same history, and by extension essentially the same powerset.

Both profiles should just be merged into one profile, with maybe a different "key" or set of "keys" for "Post-Rebirth" Hunter Zolomon.

And why isn't Hunter Zolomon being given infinite/immeasurable speed at his "peak" again? His entire powerset is basically manipulating his own personal timeline to grant himself super-speed, and he can very explicitly made himself arbitrarily fast (if not arbitrarily powerful too) using this method. It seems incredibly arbitrary to say that he shouldn't have infinite/immeasurable speed because "that's just time manipulation".
 
The Post-Crisis and Post-Flashpoint versions seem to be separate, whereas Rebirth eventually merged them both together, as far as I understand.
 
Malomtek said:
And why isn't Hunter Zolomon being given infinite/immeasurable speed at his "peak" again? His entire powerset is basically manipulating his own personal timeline to grant himself super-speed, and he can very explicitly made himself arbitrarily fast (if not arbitrarily powerful too) using this method. It seems incredibly arbitrary to say that he shouldn't have infinite/immeasurable speed because "that's just time manipulation".
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You literally answered your own question.

It's time manipulation, end of story. This isn't a speed feat.
 
Yes, but we should mention the upper limits of what he is depicted as able to do with it in his speed section.
 
Okay. I just meant that we should mention "Can match characters with up to Infinite speed via time manipulation" or somesuch within it.
 
Confluctor said:
You literally answered your own question.

It's time manipulation, end of story. This isn't a speed feat.
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Don't you think you're making unnecessary distinctions between time manipulation and speed in this context?

Surely a sufficiently powerful or skilled spacetime manipulator will be able to bend space and time to augment his speed in any case, and doing such a thing is Hunter Zolomon's entire "thing". I think it would be better to think of his time manipulation and "pure speed" as one and the same in this context.
 
No, we have to make a distinction, due to how our powers sections work, but can simultaneously mention the upper limits of what it can be used for.
 
Malomtek said:
Don't you think you're making unnecessary distinctions between time manipulation and speed in this context?
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If you read the comic, you know he isn't doing it via speed. Just time manip.

And OP already considered that in his speed justification last I checked. It clearly links to Wally's file and stuff like that.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. I just meant that we should mention "Can match characters with up to Infinite speed via time manipulation" or somesuch within it.
Click to expand...
So something like this?:

Time Dilation via the Forever Force allows him to accelerate, slow down, or stop his own time as much as he wants which enables him to fight characters far faster than him normally such as a Speed Force Amped Wally West which can reach Infinite speeds
Malomtek said:
Don't you think you're making unnecessary distinctions between time manipulation and speed in this context?

Surely a sufficiently powerful or skilled spacetime manipulator will be able to bend space and time to augment his speed in any case, and doing such a thing is Hunter Zolomon's entire "thing". I think it would be better to think of his time manipulation and "pure speed" as one and the same in this context.
Click to expand...
Like everyone else already said, the comic explictly state that Hunter isn't truly faster than characters such as Wally or Wonder Woman but rather can keep up with them via time dilation
Antvasima said:
The Post-Crisis and Post-Flashpoint versions seem to be separate, whereas Rebirth eventually merged them both together, as far as I understand.
Click to expand...
Malomtek isn't exactly wrong here, Post-Crisis and Rebirth are supposed to be the same character while Post-Flashpoint Zoom is supposed to be Eobard Thawne, I'm not opposed to combining them into one profile with different key, although it may get really cluttered and messy
 
CowHeadGod said:
So something like this?:

Time Dilation via the Forever Force allows him to accelerate, slow down, or stop his own time as much as he wants which enables him to fight characters far faster than him normally such as a Speed Force Amped Wally West which can reach Infinite speeds
Click to expand...
That seems fine to me at least.
CowHeadGod said:
Like everyone else already said, the comic explictly state that Hunter isn't truly faster than characters such as Wally or Wonder Woman but rather can keep up with them via time dilation
Click to expand...
Yes.
CowHeadGod said:
Malomtek isn't exactly wrong here, Post-Crisis and Rebirth are supposed to be the same character while Post-Flashpoint Zoom is supposed to be Eobard Thawne, I'm not opposed to combining them into one profile with different key, although it may get really cluttered and messy
Click to expand...
Different profile pages seem best then.
Confluctor said:
I honestly don't see the point of mentioning infinite speed. Linking to just Wally and leaving it there is better imo.
Click to expand...
I just think that it may look incomplete otherwise, but alright then. We can do it your way if you prefer.
 
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