Zoom (DC, Hunter Zolomon) Rework

[CowHeadGod]

such a creative and inspiring title i know

So I've got no clue what's taking Reverse-Flash's CRT so long to implement, so while that's on hold for some reason, let's fix DC's other lemon-flavored speedster; which, mind you, page is really bad and outdated. So I decided to make new profiles from scratch -

New pages to add:

• New Zoom (Post-Crisis)'s sandbox/profile - Replaces the current one
• Zoom (Rebirth)'s sandbox/profile - Entirely new page to add

Topics of discussion

• Post-Crisis Zoom having time-travel:
  • So in Rouge War, it has been made clear that he's unable to time travel since he's fuelled time instead of kinetic energy and therefore gets defeated, however, the next time we see him (Flash: Fastest Man Alive Vol 1 #10) he's just chilling in Rome in 410 AD. We never still him time travel or anything, he's just there. We never see him use this ever again but keep in mind he gets defeated before Fastest Man Alive by falling into the timestream and comes back to the present before the issue ends. Could this explain Zoom seemingly getting time travel powers out of nowhere (which gets never used again)? I honestly don't know if we should give him time travel or not so I'm asking here

So yeah, that's it. Whoo boy time for everyone to go and rip apart everything I put in these profiles.

 

[Confluctor]

What's the justification for Regen?

Also infinite speed... I don't think the justification is enough for that. Seems like time.manip.

Quite a few abilities in the new one lacks justification and scans. But overall, it looks good. Good job

 

[Peppersalt43]

Also infinite speed... I don't think the justification is enough for that. Seems like time.manip.

Why not just scale him to Post-Crisis Flash? Immeasurable is good enough, right? Unless Flash too also needs a rework

What's the justification for Regen?

Doesn't Reverse Flash have the same power source as The Flash? Flash himself has regen though if it's not good enough, there's probably a storyline where Reverse Flash comes back after getting severely injured (I don't know which one but this is a common occurrence in DC)

 

[Confluctor]

Why not just scale him to Post-Crisis Flash? Immeasurable is good enough, right? Unless Flash too also needs a rework

Its a bit more complex than that, but in a way, it is possible.

Doesn't Reverse Flash have the same power source as The Flash? Flash himself has regen though if it's not good enough, there's probably a storyline where Reverse Flash comes back after getting severely injured (I don't know which one but this is a common occurrence in DC)

Reverse flash has negative speed force, flashes and Zoom has speed force

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Also infinite speed... I don't think the justification is enough for that. Seems like time.manip.

I think there was a discussion about that before

 

[Confluctor]

?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

?

i edit my comment, although I can't find the thread

 

[CowHeadGod]

What's the justification for Regen?

Via him regenerating his crushed vertebrae

Also infinite speed... I don't think the justification is enough for that. Seems like time.manip.

Well, it's the literally same justification that Wally has

Quite a few abilities in the new one lacks justification and scans.

Which abilities need scans or justifications?

 

[Confluctor]

Well, it's the literally same justification that Wally has

I am aware. But it's his time manip ability, different than raw speed.

Which abilities need scans or justifications?

Afterimage Creation, Durability Negation, Intangibility, Regeneration (High-Low), Enhanced Senses and Perception Amplification for starters

 

[CowHeadGod]

Afterimage Creation, Durability Negation, Intangibility, Regeneration (High-Low), Enhanced Senses and Perception Amplification for starters

All added

I am aware. But it's his time manip ability, different than raw speed.

Then this would be immeasurable speeds instead, right?

Also added a new topic discussion to this CRT post (about Post-Crisis Zoom having time travel)

 

[Confluctor]

Then this would be immeasurable speeds instead, right?

idk, just time travel. Scaling from wally's infinite speed should do the trick tho

 

[CowHeadGod]

Scaling from wally's infinite speed should do the trick tho

Alrighty then, added that in

Also uh what do you mean by time travel lol

 

[CowHeadGod]

Bump

 

[Confluctor]

Also uh what do you mean by time travel

I meant to say time travel/manip which is his main ability in PC

 

[CowHeadGod]

I meant to say time travel/manip which is his main ability in PC

Oh, I thought you were referring to what I added to the OP
But yeah time manip is his main power in PC while time travel is very dubious

 

[XXKINGXX69]

How does he not have immeasurable speed? He ran to the 25th century

 

[Confluctor]

1. That's thawne.
2. He already has immeasurable for his rebirth file

 

[XXKINGXX69]

1. That's thawne.
2. He already has immeasurable for his rebirth file

Impossible

 

[Confluctor]

?

 

[CowHeadGod]

How does he not have immeasurable speed? He ran to the 25th century

Wrong guy

?

Pretty sure he's talking about the fact Thawne's Rebirth profile hasn't implemented yet

 

[Confluctor]

oh someone tried, but the whole thread got derailed to oblivion, so yeah...

 

[CowHeadGod]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

@C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @Planck69 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist

What do you think about this?

Also, I would appreciate help with finishing the other Zoom revision thread as well.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you think about this?

Both profiles look fine on a read through. Though is there a particular reason why Rebirth Hunter doesn't have an infinite rating?

 

[Eficiente]

Stop time isn't speed.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah, you're right. It would just be some version of time manipulation.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

For PC, seems Confluctor's issues were fixed (although it still uses the justifications from his time manipulation for speed), so it's fine.

Can't add much about Rebirth, aside that it looks pretty solid.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

So should he just get Batman level speed plus advanced time stop instead then?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

His speed was said to rival Superman's

 

[CowHeadGod]

His speed was said to rival Superman's

Wrong guy (again)

Thank you for helping out.

So should he just get Batman level speed plus advanced time stop instead then?

Well the main problem is that the Forever Force quite literally is his entire powerset, I proposed something like this:

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic normally (Faster than Murmur who is comparable to his fellow Rouges; who sees other street tiers outside of Keystone City in slow motion), Varies with the Forever Force (Able to accelerate, slow down, or stop his own time as much as he wants)

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Wrong guy (again)

I hate this shit man why is DC confusing

 

[Eficiente]

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic normally (Faster than Murmur who is comparable to his fellow Rouges; who sees other street tiers outside of Keystone City in slow motion)

Well, this is good but if you could add evidence that he isn't using his powers then that would be even better.

Well the main problem is that the Forever Force quite literally is his entire powerset, I proposed something like this:

, Varies with the Forever Force (Able to accelerate, slow down, or stop his own time as much as he wants)

Powers like that are still not speed and so couldn't be a Varies. Does he not have any feat where he reacts to Flash w/o using his powers, giving him reactions at that level?

Otherwise, just like APs can have a ", ignores durability via X" and Durabilities can have a ", X powers makes them hard to kill", his Speed very much could have a ", Time Manipulation makes him keep up with faster opponents (Actively keeps up with the Flash through merit of his time powers, rather than the speed of his own body)". Or something like it.

 

[Antvasima]

How about "Time Manipulation via the Forever Force enables him to keep up with beings that have infinite speed", or somesuch? So we treat the character fairly.

 

[Eficiente]

Sure.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Would that be acceptable for the rest of you as well?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Agreed.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Agree

 

[CowHeadGod]

I hate this shit man why is DC confusing

Hey man, all you have to remember is that Hunter wears dark lens over his eyes while Thawne doesn't... except when the artist decides to give Thawne that for no reason... or when DC tried to merge Hunter and Thawne into one singular character during DCYOU for no reason

Well, this is good but if you could add evidence that he isn't using his powers then that would be even better.

What exactly should I add? Should I add a subtitle saying that the comic was before Hunter gained his powers (Issue 188) and he got his powers sometime later (Issue #196)?

Does he not have any feat where he reacts to Flash w/o using his powers, giving him reactions at that level?

Well, his powers are there 24/7, he can't exactly just turn it off. Unless you want to count times he glanced at Wally running by ¯\(ツ)/¯

How about "Time Manipulation via the Forever Force enables him to keep up with beings that have infinite speed", or somesuch? So we treat the character fairly.

I'm fine with this

 

[Antvasima]

How about "Time Manipulation via the Forever Force enables him to keep up with beings that have infinite speed", or somesuch? So we treat the character fairly.

Thank you for the replies. It seems like the above text can probably be applied to the relevant profile page then.

What else has been accepted to be applied here, and what do we currently still need to evaluate?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Thank you for the replies. It seems like the above text can probably be applied to the relevant profile page then.

What else has been accepted to be applied here, and what do we currently still need to evaluate?

If I'm not mistaken, that was the only point of contention left to fix. Everything else was accepted.

Confluctor and/or Eficiente may correct me on that. But for me, everything else is fine.