zogratis singularity gravity

[SeijiSetto]

2- What is actually needed for it to be 100% a real black hole? Cuz apparently none of that is even sufficient enough, so what are the irrefutable criteria for it to be a genuine bh?

Looking at this page, it seems to require a reliable source calling it a black hole + no antifeats.
If not that, then typical properties like warping light (space should probably be included there) near it, its gravitational pull
OR
Its formation has to have been from something that makes sense, like compressing matter or the collapse of a large star.

Dante's black hole was called a singularity by Yami, who you could argue isn't a reliable source.
Then, moving on-
From an Ability that makes sense: We know Dante uses gravity magic.
Similar Feats:
Evil God's Pressure Craft can compress things using gravity.
Dante can warp space around him - demonstrated by Yami's space-cutting slash not working AND warping away all the Asta clones.
Dante's black hole sucks up stuff around it.
Characters not getting sucked in instantly makes sense since they're all FTL at this point.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Didn’t Dante call it Singularity? Also the tidal waves are small so it can’t exactly suck much in.

 

[Epsilon_R]

If these are the actual criterias, then I am pretty sure it fits them.

Which again, makes me seriously wonder what kind of black hole was rejected despite having as many checked criterias as this one. It's not even like it has anti-feats other than its area of effect, which is implied that Dante can control

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Yes , the gravitational singularity fits practically all standards and as I mentioned at the beginning of this topic the author has already done exactly the same thing in his old work ,which we already accept as a real black hole here .And I also wanted to mention that the singularity had a lot of emphasis on the fight as something that represents power not just a simple black hole creation hax, this is noticeable when Dante before using the gravitational singularity enters 80% of demonic power and it was also the first spell in his Grimoire he used against Yami, and Yami himself after that cites Dante's power being "infinite" , and as already mentioned here several times, the abilities that a black hole has are practically the same as Dante has shown to do at lower percentages , which means that it makes no sense for him to make a gravitational singularity without being something that represents pure power

 

[SeijiSetto]

not only that but black clover has already reached tier 5 in terms of power so it happening a little earlier in the series due to a re-evaluated feat wouldn't be a massive outlier

 

[Epsilon_R]

Tbh I don't really want my calc to be accepted yet, I just wanna see if they could be accepted as one

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

not only that but black clover has already reached tier 5 in terms of power so it happening a little earlier in the series due to a re-evaluated feat wouldn't be a massive outlier

Yes , and it makes more sense on the scale that Conrad and Asta 's feats with the imperial sword are below the true contract with the demon Asta since we have this quote from Liebe ,Liebe also came into contact with magical power when Lucifero possessed him, which means he must have an idea of how much magic power Asta had with the imperial sword,There is also Yami's statement of Dante having infinite power which must mean that Dante > Lester who had access to the full power of the imperial sword

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

bump

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump

 

[Phsccarvalho]

so it can’t exactly suck much in.

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be an anti-feat.

Certainly most of the black holes that exist in fiction don't suck things around like they should.

For example, Garou's black hole, that size black hole should suck everyone in, but it's not even that powerful, people still manage to survive around it. But that doesn't disqualify his black hole as other strong evidence.

If suction power realism were an extremely important criterion, many black holes would be disqualified.

 

[Arkenis]

For example, Garou's black hole, that size black hole should suck everyone in, but it's not even that powerful, people still manage to survive around it. But that doesn't disqualify his black hole as other strong evidence.

That would just be their LS in action not a reason to ignore suction for Bh.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

That would just be their LS in action not a reason to ignore suction for Bh.

Whose LS? That black hole size should suck everyone in if it were 100% realistic, but it's not even 1% of that and ordinary humans can survive just by holding on to something.

 

[Arkenis]

If suction power realism were an extremely important criterion, many black holes would be disqualified.

Sorry for the second reply but can you show multiple times where a BH suction wasn’t happening due to an inaccurate portrayal?

Suction is almost a staple attribute all BH in fiction should show so if it’s completely absent in some accepted BH feats then that is a problem and doesn’t make sense for it being accepted.

Whose LS? That black hole size should suck everyone in if it were 100% realistic, but it's not even 1% of that and ordinary humans can survive just by holding on to something.

Ahh okay. Yeah that seems like a ridiculous inaccurate portrayal of a very simple attribute BH have, was it accepted due to some explanation in manga?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Sorry for the second reply but can you show multiple times where a BH suction wasn’t happening due to an inaccurate portrayal?

Suction is almost a staple attribute all BH in fiction should show so if it’s completely absent in some accepted BH feats then that is a problem and doesn’t make sense for it being accepted.


Ahh okay. Yeah that seems like a ridiculous inaccurate portrayal of a very simple attribute BH have, was it accepted due to some explanation in manga?

dude, what are you talking about?

I'm talking about how they seem to want the black hole's suction to be realistic according to its mass.

And I'm saying no, as that's an impression that almost always happens in fiction, using OPM's Garou as an example.

If this BC thing sucks things around, the power doesn't really matter much considering what I said.

Of course, you have to have suction since it's a basic thing, but the suction power for the size/mass of the hole wouldn't need to be 100% realistic.

 

[Arkenis]

dude, what are you talking about?

I'm talking about how they seem to want the black hole's suction to be realistic according to its mass.

And I'm saying no, as that's an impression that almost always happens in fiction, using OPM's Garou as an example.

I'm saying the suction not being shown is an issue when taking into account if a BH in fiction should be accepted as a realistic BH. It should be accurate and it should be addressed if it's not showing powerful suction. The fact Garou's BH is big yet regular humans can just hold onto something allows them to not get sucked in is a massive inaccuracy and should not be ignored.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I'm saying the suction not being shown is an issue when taking into account if a BH in fiction should be accepted as a realistic BH. It should be accurate and it should be addressed if it's not showing powerful suction. The fact Garou's BH is big yet regular humans can just hold onto something allows them to not get sucked in is a massive inaccuracy and should not be ignored.

And did I literally never say that lack of suction shouldn't disqualify? Where did you get that from? I said that the suction power doesn't need to be 100% accurate with the size of the black hole, because doing something like that is almost impossible if you're not a mathematician.

Although suction is an important criterion, I have never seen suction power 100% realistic with the size and mass of the black hole being a very important disqualifying criterion, especially in cases with a lot of evidence that it is a real black hole as in the case of Garou.

I don't know much about BC, but if in that verse the singularity has a lot of strong evidence to be a black hole, I don't see the suction power being 100% realistic as something important.

Especially because, I think it's totally impossible for someone to accurately calculate the suction power of a black hole if it has x size and mass. And I don't think I've ever seen that happen.

 

[Arkenis]

And did I literally never say that lack of suction shouldn't disqualify? Where did you get that from? I said that the suction power doesn't need to be 100% accurate with the size of the black hole, because doing something like that is almost impossible if you're not a mathematician.

I'm bringing it up, and ofc it doesn't have to be 100%, I'm more so referring to Garou's BH example as you said, but it can also be applied to Dante's here too.

For example, Garou's black hole, that size black hole should suck everyone in, but it's not even that powerful, people still manage to survive around it. But that doesn't disqualify his black hole as other strong evidence.

I don't know much about BC, but if in that verse the singularity has a lot of strong evidence to be a black hole, I don't see the suction power being 100% realistic as something important.

It really doesn't have strong evidence besides being called a BH and that gravity magic made it.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It really doesn't have strong evidence besides being called a BH and that gravity magic made it.

I absolutely disagree.
In addition to what you said,
It has an event horizon.
It has tidal waves.
It can warp space around it.
It’s not even an outlier anymore considering where the verse scales to.

Legit the only thing missing is Hawkings radiation.

Objectively speaking all these are enough evidence for at least a “Likely” rating

 

[Epsilon_R]

At this point just ask for a calc member to evaluate the Black hole according to these scans

 

[Arnoldstone18]

At this point just ask for a calc member to evaluate the Black hole according to these scans

Add the fact that it has an event horizon and the fact that it has tidal waves. And I’ll send it to a CGM.

 

[Majinere566]

Y'all should get @Qawsedf234 to help evaluate this(even tho he isn't a cgm he's knowledgeable on Black Holes)He helped alot in another black hole thread

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

what if its a pesudo black hole?
pretty sure it qualifies for that

 

[Worthless]

I legit have no clue why people are even taking this seriously. But then again, half of the fs here are the same ones who don't mind Universal/Moon level Dorothy and Multi-Wank Fana just cus the reasoning and calculations are "okay." hilarious as hell no amount of wank calculations can justify the shit you all about to do.

 

[SeijiSetto]

I legit have no clue why people are even taking this seriously. But then again, half of the fs here are the same ones who don't mind Universal/Moon level Dorothy and Multi-Wank Fana just cus the reasoning and calculations are "okay." hilarious as hell no amount of wank calculations can justify the shit you all about to do.

i don't understand why you came into this thread just to complain
like sure you can say you disagree but the rest was completely unnecessary

what if its a pesudo black hole?
pretty sure it qualifies for that

the aim is to get it to qualify for a REAL black hole because it should be
made by a user of gravity magic, he called it a gravity singularity, it has an event horizon, weaker magic of the same type has warped space, and tabata KNOWS what a black hole is since he's written scientifically accurate ones in previous works

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

i don't understand why you came into this thread just to complain
like sure you can say you disagree but the rest was completely unnecessary

the aim is to get it to qualify for a REAL black hole because it should be
made by a user of gravity magic, he called it a gravity singularity, it has an event horizon, weaker magic of the same type has warped space, and tabata KNOWS what a black hole is since he's written scientifically accurate ones in previous works

all of that is fine but if the suction power isnt enough to eat up a planet then why are we assuming its above a planet?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

all of that is fine but if the suction power isnt enough to eat up a planet then why are we assuming its above a planet?

This depends on the calculation, for example: Garou's black hole did not devour the planet and is High 5-A, because the calculation calculates the amount of energy needed to create a black hole of that size.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Dante can manipulate the AoE of his Singularity anyway

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Multi-Wank Fana

Multi-Canon Fana you mean when the databook is written by Tabata

 

[Worthless]

i don't understand why you came into this thread just to complain
like sure you can say you disagree but the rest was completely unnecessary
the aim is to get it to qualify for a REAL black hole because it should be
made by a user of gravity magic, he called it a gravity singularity, it has an event horizon, weaker magic of the same type has warped space, and tabata KNOWS what a black hole is since he's written scientifically accurate ones in previous works

"Real Black Hole," so you all can scale mfs to planetary Gravity Singularity is a "spell" and this is not the first time Tabata made (an unnatural) spell appear true by mimicking how the real one functions, which was later proven that those spells are not natural or real just because they behave like the original, by introducing "True Magic."

This is not the first time I've encountered a sounds argument (one that comes from overanalyzing things) used to enforce absurd scaling, so stop talking no amount of excuses can justify this shit and you know that

 

[Arkenis]

I legit have no clue why people are even taking this seriously. But then again, half of the fs here are the same ones who don't mind Universal/Moon level Dorothy and Multi-Wank Fana just cus the reasoning and calculations are "okay." hilarious as hell no amount of wank calculations can justify the shit you all about to do.

Whats wrong with Fana being multi cont?

 

[SunDaGamer]

"Real Black Hole," so you all can scale mfs to planetary Gravity Singularity is a "spell" and this is not the first time Tabata made (an unnatural) spell appear true by mimicking how the real one functions, which was later proven that those spells are not natural or real just because they behave like the original, by introducing "True Magic."

Real elements in Black Clover are still made of mana, it's a fundamental aspect of its world (areas of natural disasters are literally called "Strong Magic Regions" because mana is denser and stronger there). True Magic uses Mana Method to create stronger spells that are powered by nature's mana rather than the user's own magic power but they are still by all means "magic"

This is not the first time I've encountered a sounds argument (one that comes from overanalyzing things) used to enforce absurd scaling, so stop talking no amount of excuses can justify this shit and you know that

We straight up have High 6-A feats from characters who should heavily downscale from the Dark Triad and call me insane but gravity abilities creating black holes isn't a stretch

 

[Deceived3596]

Y'all should probably contact other mods to evaluate this thread, because currently. There are only two who have and those two disagree with the thread.

 

[Worthless]

Whats wrong with Fana being multi cont?

For a very very very simple reason and it's she is massively massively massively weaker than the Ancient Demon. Man i didn't come here to explain shit, i just came here to complain at this mfs cus i know these bunch of noodles will still disagree with my shit no matter how true it was

 

[SunDaGamer]

For a very very very simple reason and it's she is massively massively massively weaker than the Ancient Demon. Man i didn't come here to explain shit, i just came here to complain at this mfs cus i know these bunch of noodles will still disagree with my shit no matter how true it was

Even though I disagree with High 6-A Salamander, that tier has a gap of 6674x between the baseline and 5-C so that alone isn't a sound argument

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Okay it’s clear @Worthless came here to rant. I advise everyone to ignore him and focus on the thread.

 

[Worthless]

Real elements in Black Clover are still made of mana, it's a fundamental aspect of its world (areas of natural disasters are literally called "Strong Magic Regions" because mana is denser and stronger there). True Magic uses Mana Method to create stronger spells that are powered by nature's mana rather than the user's own magic power but they are still by all means "magic"
We straight up have High 6-A feats from characters who should heavily downscale from the Dark Triad and call me insane but gravity abilities creating black holes isn't a stretch

I love how wrong you are lmfaoo. One sentence: "Zagred creating an actual physical matter through magic"

Okay it’s clear @Worthless came here to rant. I advise everyone to ignore him and focus on the thread.

Good luck debunking the factual argument i made though . Adios because idon't really give a shit

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Good…

Anyway…

As we were discussing.

The only criteria Dante’s black hole doesn’t meet are its AOE right? Using Garou’s black hole as reference I think that’s fine. Any other concern?

 

[Epsilon_R]

What tf is blud waffling about

You can rant all you want but at the end of the day you never even try to change anything, no crt, nothing. What's the point of you wasting time and energy complaining here but ultimately not doing anything about it when you could...I dunno, just go outside?

No one even said anything about changing the ap scaling, so don't jump to conclusions.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

What's the point of you wasting time and energy complaining here but ultimately not doing anything about it when you could...I dunno, just go outside?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

okay so I just asked a few others offsite and they agree with it.

Destructive capabilities isn’t a big criteria otherwise most black holes wouldn’t be used for scaling. It’s definitely enough for a “Possibly/Likely” scaling.

@Epsilon_R when you’re done with adding more evidence to the calc let me know. I will ask a CGM to see if the math is fine and I will make a follow up crt to get it accepted into the scaling.