Zeno vs Gold Experience Requiem 🔥

[Killerdrone123]

nah derailing is fine coz its a robo thread

it says on zeno's profile that he effortlessly erased everything with a single ki blast

Zen'ō

So, see I was thinking, see, maybe next time I'll try gathering fighters from all the universes, see...We'll do a tournament then, see. Sometime soon, see.Zen’ō to Goku after watching his fight with Hit Zen'ō (全王ぜんおう?, lit. "Omni-King") is the king of all of the twelve universes in the Dragon...

vsbattles.fandom.com

This was brought up in discussion thread we are going to fix it

 

[StrymULTRA]

Basically yeah, it's why BoG Goku is not Immeasurable. The attack effect is Immeasurable, but the attack itself is not.

 

[Chariot190]

This is derailing but when did the verse stated he use a ki blast???, or it is people who see his hand glowing then assume it is ki blast??

It's the whole reason his physicals even scale to his AP, is that we treat it as a ki blast. If it was EE hax, he wouldn't scale.

Universes in db are mini timelines themselves having there own time dimension and past,present and future the hypertimeline contains all of this and each hypertimeline is independent of each other

And this doesn't matter at all and is also fake news ngl

1. Literally DB have multiple timelines, and each timeline follow their own cause and effect, you argue that Zeno EE Trunks timeline must affect present Goku timeline to cause the ToP to never exist which is nonsensical, their causality is separated

No, I'm arguing deleting Trunks timeline should have effected Trunks timeline and Trunks from ever existing, the Goku Black arc shouldn't have happened, Cell too, if Cell didn't happen then Goku's timeline shouldn't to because it was Trunks who caused that split, but he shouldn't exist retroactively.
The same as me arguing the worlds he deleted in the ToP shouldn't have even been apart of the TP because they would have retroactively ceased to exist.

This is UNIRONICALLY what is being argued here.

 

[Chariot190]

Basically yeah, it's why BoG Goku is not Immeasurable. The attack effect is Immeasurable, but the attack itself is not.

The attack effect is what the speed comes from, Beerus reacting to said attack.

 

[Zabazab]

I agree that Giorno stomps this. Zeno just stays still unable to act (from Giorno's pov) due to RTZ and Giorno goes through his laundry list of abilities to see what'll kill Zeno.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No, I'm arguing deleting Trunks timeline should have effected Trunks timeline and Trunks from ever existing, the Goku Black arc shouldn't have happened, Cell too, if Cell didn't happen then Goku's timeline shouldn't to because it was Trunks who caused that split, but he shouldn't exist retroactively.
The same as me arguing the worlds he deleted in the ToP shouldn't have even been apart of the TP because they would have retroactively ceased to exist.

3-A Zeno arguments all over again smh.

 

[Killerdrone123]

It's the whole reason his physicals even scale to his AP, is that we treat it as a ki blast. If it was EE hax, he wouldn't scale.

And this doesn't matter at all and is also fake news ngl

No, I'm arguing deleting Trunks timeline should have effected Trunks timeline and Trunks from ever existing, the Goku Black arc shouldn't have happened, Cell too, if Cell didn't happen then Goku's timeline shouldn't to because it was Trunks who caused that split, but he shouldn't exist retroactively.
The same as me arguing the worlds he deleted in the ToP shouldn't have even been apart of the TP because they would have retroactively ceased to exist.

This is UNIRONICALLY what is being argued here.

There is an in verse rule that killing someone in past wont affect the future basically changing someone past wont affect there future self it is a verse rule

 

[Chariot190]

I myself think that Zeno should be downgraded to 2-C, BUT:

1. Him erasing the timeline is undeniable.
2. Saying "but it does not work like that because stuff" in a vs thread is not a thing, especially when it has a blog explaining it in profile.

This entire post seems just stonewalling against a practice used in this wiki, unless you want to argue against Undertale and Sonic being Immeasurable too.

Dude, this isn't a practice the wiki uses what are you on about? We don't extrapolate a technicality to make something function in ways it consistently never once did, and in fact, behaves the exact opposite way each time.

The blog doesn't say "yeah dude everything retroactively ceases to exist and zeno wins instantly because his future self did a thing even if his past self failed to".

3-A Zeno arguments all over again smh.

Why the strawman? I'm fine with him deleting the timeline, but I'm also not going to lie about how it works, is shown, and behaves to give it abilities and attributes it simply does not have.

 

[Vietthai96]

There are too many comments lol

The attack effect is what the speed comes from, Beerus reacting to said attack.

Range exist you know??, and it separate from speed

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

That’s not how it even works for the individual characters anyways, Zamasu didn’t never exist, the Goku black arc would have retroactively never happened if that was the case. Plus Hakai requires an action still.

Here's an explanation of the Dragon Ball timeline, I highly recommend you read this, thank you.

 

[Chariot190]

There is an in verse rule that killing someone in past wont affect the future basically changing someone past wont affect there future self it is a verse rule

Yeah that isn't what's happening now is it though? That past version would have never existed in the first place to make it to the future.

There are too many comments lol

Range exist you know??, and it separate from speed

Yeah? Having big dick range, completely fine and A-OK and is consistent with what's shown. The argument is that it's Imm speed tho, even tho the whole speed scaling is based on that and taht's where the MFTL+ comes from.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Why the strawman? I'm fine with him deleting the timeline, but I'm also not going to lie about how it works, is shown, and behaves to give it abilities and attributes it simply does not have.

If you agree with that, you agree with Zeno deleting things with Immeasurable speed effects. It's why is Tier 1 in the first place, otherwise is 3-A.

You can't get both.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Yeah that isn't what's happening now is it though? That past version would have never existed in the first place to make it to the future.

Yeah? Having big dick range, completely fine and A-OK and is consistent with what's shown. The argument is that it's Imm speed tho, even tho the whole speed scaling is based on that and taht's where the MFTL+ comes from.

Brother I literally told you no matter what happens in past the future self wont get affected even if the timeline is erased it is a in verse system.

 

[Cass5373]

For the above reasons given I vote for Zeno

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I think this should be closed and victory included in Zen'ō's profile.

 

[Robo432343]

if the effect is immeasurable then GER wins
coz ger battles happen before the effect

 

[StrymULTRA]

I think this should be closed and victory included in Zen'ō's profile.

It's a stomp lmfao. GER can't do anything against him at all offensively.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It's a stomp lmfao. GER can't do anything against him at all offensively.

Wow

 

[Chariot190]

Here's an explanation of the Dragon Ball timeline, I highly recommend you read this, thank you.

All of that is talking about Trunks' future, and the present, which are two different universes.
We're saying Trunks' pas actions, and he himself, should have never existed if he was destroyed in the past.
And lacked a time ring to protect himself.

If you agree with that, you agree with Zeno deleting things with Immeasurable speed effects. It's why is Tier 1 in the first place, otherwise is 3-A.

You can't get both.

Or maybe I agree with what's shown and I'm not about to pretend it works in ways that demonstrably, consistently, 100% of the time, doesn't and never has.
He must use the EE, if the EE never happens, nothing will happen. Retroactive hypotheticals isn't how it works, I shouldn't even be humoring you.

Brother I literally told you no matter what happens in past the future self wont get affected even if the timeline is erased

And? Based on what? If it's the scans Luffy posted, you're completely misunderstanding the problem, as those scans all talk about the past and future, in the sense of divergent timelines, not the exact same timeline.

 

[Robo432343]

Valentine gets stomped lmfao.

what about Wonder of U?

 

[Keeweed]

It's a stomp lmfao. GER can't do anything against him at all offensively.

Except loop him forever, as I have been informed the death loop and just looping in the extended stuff was clarified to be the same thing.

 

[Killerdrone123]

All of that is talking about Trunks' future, and the present, which are two different universes.
We're saying Trunks' pas actions, and he himself, should have never existed if he was destroyed in the past.
And lacked a time ring to protect himself.

Or maybe I agree with what's shown and I'm not about to pretend it works in ways that demonstrably, consistently, 100% of the time, doesn't and never has.
He must use the EE, if the EE never happens, nothing will happen. Retroactive hypotheticals isn't how it works, I shouldn't even be humoring you.

And? Based on what? If it's the scans Luffy posted, you're completely misunderstanding the problem, as those scans all talk about the past and future, in the sense of divergent timelines, not the exact same timeline.

If anybody affects past or does something In present that affects past a new timeline gets created this is the whole reason why db has mwi

 

[StrymULTRA]

Or maybe I agree with what's shown and I'm not about to pretend it works in ways that demonstrably, consistently, 100% of the time, doesn't and never has.
He must use the EE, if the EE never happens, nothing will happen. Retroactive hypotheticals isn't how it works, I shouldn't even be humoring you.

That's literally something you can argue against whatever Tier 2 destruction in fiction. Not to mention that Zeno erasing things across history is indeed accepted on the profiles, it's why SDBH Zamasu has High Godly.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Except loop him forever, as I have been informed the death loop and just looping in the extended stuff was clarified to be the same thing.

For the Death Loop GER needs to kill Zeno, and that ain't happening.

 

[Robo432343]

For the Death Loop GER needs to kill Zeno, and that ain't happening.

bro RTZ activates before Zeno has the will to EE

 

[Keeweed]

That’s literally my point though, I was informed the extended writings and a side story clarified all his loops are the same. The death loop works just like any other loop. He can be looped just raising his hand forever.

 

[Chariot190]

Brother, make a CRT and downgrade Zeno if you want, this is a trample in favor of Zeno

Show me where he has Imm attack speed on the profile first, and show me where Zeno's atacks, at ANY POINT in DB media, caused a retroactive effect.

If anybody affects past or does something In present that affects past a new timeline gets created this is the whole reason why db has mwi

Yes, except, that isn't what happened. Zeno deleted those worlds, timelines included, we see things from those timelines exist normally up to the very moment he deleted them. This is not a case of an action causing a split into a new world, the thing you're describing, there is no split, they should be just gone.

side story

Guides and stuff, not side story. GER only shows up in noncanon novels, he has some insane stuff in those but it isnt canon. Which is to say, we're literally debating a dude with 3ch of screentime and the rest salvaged by whatever crumbs of info Araki feels like dropping every other decade (This isn't a joke, GoGo was like 2001, Vel was 2012, we're due for the next batch of crumbs soon).

 

[StrymULTRA]

That’s literally my point though, I was informed the extended writings and a side story clarified all his loops are the same. The death loop works just like any other loop. He can be looped just raising his hand forever.

What I mean it's that the whole "he dies forever in other universes" is verbatim said to need first the physical death of the target.

Plus @Chariot190 has generally a problem with arguing stuff that's neither accepted in profiles nor with scans backing it up. I'd like to see evidence fot that 1st.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yes, except, that isn't what happened. Zeno deleted those worlds, timelines included, we see things from those timelines exist normally up to the very moment he deleted them. This is not a case of an action causing a split into a new world, the thing you're describing, there is no split, they should be just gone.

This guy's High Godly regen.

Fusion Zamasu (Super Dragon Ball Heroes)

Fusion Zamasu (合体がったいザマス, Gattai Zamasu?), usually just referred to as Zamasu (ザマス, Zamasu?), is a fusion born of the union between Goku Black (Present Zamasu in Goku's body) and Future Zamasu through the Potara Earrings. In the story of Super Dragon Ball Heroes, rather than stay dead he...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Downgrade him first then we talk.

 

[Lynieryz]

Giorno FRA [Poison Frog armor FRA ]

 

[Chariot190]

That's literally something you can argue against whatever Tier 2 destruction in fiction. Not to mention that Zeno erasing things across history is indeed accepted on the profiles, it's why SDBH Zamasu has High Godly.

I'm arguing here because that's literally not how it works in this case.
Show me one time his attack resulted in retroactive effects.

I'm fine with the result, I'm just not fine with wanking it to do shit it never did, he has to use the EE, until the moment he uses the EE, everything is fine.

Plus @Chariot190 has generally a problem with arguing stuff that's neither accepted in profiles nor with scans backing it up. I'd like to see evidence fot that 1st.

Lmao what? Strym I know damn well you know that isn't how it works.
Completely ignoring it's a completely made up thing that doesn't actually exist and it's stated verbatim, in shit I know you have, to just be GER setting his death to 0, nothing, nothing less.

Downgrade him first then we talk.

I want to see Imm speed on Zeno first.

 

[Keeweed]

Ironic since

What I mean it's that the whole "he dies forever in other universes" is verbatim said to need first the physical death of the target.

Plus @Chariot190 has generally a problem with arguing stuff that's neither accepted in profiles nor with scans backing it up. I'd like to see evidence fot that 1st.

You’re literally arguing with something not on the profile and something that has been dismissed by staff before. So that’s ironic to say. Do I personally see it, immeasurable attack effect sure, but it’s not retroactive on characters and doesn’t erase history just time. Because many things would have retroactively not have happened if the history was removed. In the context of what we are talking about that was a really rude and short sighted thing to say.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Guys, it's literally accepted Zeno erased history, it's said on SDBH Zamasu profile.

Either downgrade his regen, or just stop.

I'm not engaging in this any further.

 

[Chariot190]

Also where the **** on the Gio profile does it say Death Loop is special?

"GER can take the entirety of something and revert it to a previous state. This includes any action the target takes and leaves GER unaffected by it (i.e., Giorno would be affected by time stop, but GER would not). This puts anything it affects in a constant loop of being put back to zero depending on what GER has done to the target." - The profile.

It literally IS on the profile.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Did I mention that Zen'ō stomps? I vote for Zen'ō

 

[Robo432343]

its over...giorno wins 8-5

 

[Fezzih_007]

its over...giorno wins 8-5

No is not, It din't hit Grace yet.

 

[TauanVictor]

Giorno FRA

 

[Fezzih_007]

Wtf you mean Fra, no one give a reason to why Giorno wins.

 

[Robo432343]

Wtf you mean Fra, no one give a reason to why Giorno wins.

bro people say stuff like this in every vs thread
"no one gave a reason why x character wins"