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Even if thats not the case, heaven, hell (and maybe the demon realms) do. So nothing changes.
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Zen'o Existence Erasure
- Thread starter Saikou_The_Lewd_King
- Start date
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- Tags
- dragon ball zen'ō
- Status
- 167,703
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It would cause an enormous neverending backlash if we consider destroying separate universes as a Low 2-C feat for Dragon Ball only, especially considering how much more powerful Zen'o is supposed to be compared to other characters.
We should probably consider the universes to be separate in something akin to the classical sense, even if the practical space-time mechanics are not explicitly spelled out to not overcomplicate an action-oriented all ages show. Also, if the afterlives are separate continuums, the universes likely are as well. Displaying the universes side by side in a 3-D manner is probably done for simplicity of visualisation, rather than scientific accuracy.
We should probably consider the universes to be separate in something akin to the classical sense, even if the practical space-time mechanics are not explicitly spelled out to not overcomplicate an action-oriented all ages show. Also, if the afterlives are separate continuums, the universes likely are as well. Displaying the universes side by side in a 3-D manner is probably done for simplicity of visualisation, rather than scientific accuracy.
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Okay, that makes enough sense, and I understand the reasonings behind his rating better, although I personally am still inclined to believe that infinite 3-D universes on a 4-D plane makes more sense cosmologically, as those "bubbles," could be represented by how the many universes were shown, and I am relatively certain that the universe has been called infinite in size before by official sources, though this is all besides the point.
Has there been any official consensus on the topic of the thread, though?
Has there been any official consensus on the topic of the thread, though?
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Prove that? Wasn't it outright stated heaven is seperated from the mortal universe and time flows differently there in Z? And even further that hell is seperated from heaven even further.
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It's erasure.AguilaR101 said:
@Amexim
Zeno has no AP/Dura/etcfeats, regardless of what makes sense, + he's not stated to be a fighter.
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When we first saw Zeno, Beerus said to Goku - "Zeno-sama can destroy all 12 universes in the blink of an eye."
I'll check to see if the word "hakai" was used in the sentence, just to be sure.
It looked like Zeno charged up energy balls to destroy the future Trunks' timeline.
During Goku vs Bergamo in the Zen exhibition match, GP said - "Zeno-sama will erase all the universes immediately."
Also, the term "wipe out" was used by Herms in one of the translations iirc.
Well, just putting it out there. I think he can do both. I am not sure what the consensus is.
I'll check to see if the word "hakai" was used in the sentence, just to be sure.
It looked like Zeno charged up energy balls to destroy the future Trunks' timeline.
During Goku vs Bergamo in the Zen exhibition match, GP said - "Zeno-sama will erase all the universes immediately."
Also, the term "wipe out" was used by Herms in one of the translations iirc.
Well, just putting it out there. I think he can do both. I am not sure what the consensus is.
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Him not being a fighter means little. It just means he's not a fighter, like don't expect him to outskill anyone or do some crazy techniques, not that he's weaker than everyone in raw stats. He's still untouchable by basically everyone.
Yeah he has zero feats, but nobody bar Frieza and gods have planet busting feats, powerscaling exists for a reason.
Yeah he has zero feats, but nobody bar Frieza and gods have planet busting feats, powerscaling exists for a reason.
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Should I close this?
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I'd like to say something about this later if I could please. If not u can close this.
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Well, as I mentioned earlier, perhaps we should place a note that Zen'o has only been demonstrated to use existence erasure against lower rated beings, if it has been a problem during versus matchup discussions?
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That shouldn't be a note to be honest. The problem isn't the hax. It seems to be a tiering thing. We shouldn't just place a restriction on an abiity like this unless stated otherwise.
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I mean, nothing prevents people who are knowledgeable about Zen'ō from saying "Hey remember, he never erased other 2-C's!"
For example, Madoka Kaname doesn't have a note for her soul manipulation just because she never affected another 2-A with it. People simply don't use that particular power as an argument
For example, Madoka Kaname doesn't have a note for her soul manipulation just because she never affected another 2-A with it. People simply don't use that particular power as an argument
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But should we put restrictions on a move that is not only a subset of Void Manipulation, but Durability Negation as well? That like literally ruins the point of all characters with these abilities.
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Not really. It depends on the hax. Hax is not tied to AP all the time.
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I mean, in that case, characters like Reinhard, BB, and (base) Lavos shouldn't have wins.
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If he has a legitimate feat of erasing another tier 2, I don't really see what's the issue about people using it as an argument. If his best erasure feat was, say, erasing Frost, it would indeed be NLF to say that he can erase other tier 2 characters, but it doesn't seem to be the case here.
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Saikou's argument is that Zeno never displayed destructive power, since all we've seen from him was existence erasure .
Goku: "Does that mean he's the strongest?"
Whis: This
Beerus: Zeno isn't a fighter.
The message they're conveying seems pretty clear. We've only seen Zeno erase entire universes, so when Zeno can erase Frost before he can attack Frieza, there's no need to fight. Especially Whis's statement on the Grand Priest's fighting abilities. Trying to say Zeno physically scales is grasping for straws imo. The only solid info we have on him is speed and the power of his existence erasure.
Goku: "Does that mean he's the strongest?"
Whis: This
Beerus: Zeno isn't a fighter.
The message they're conveying seems pretty clear. We've only seen Zeno erase entire universes, so when Zeno can erase Frost before he can attack Frieza, there's no need to fight. Especially Whis's statement on the Grand Priest's fighting abilities. Trying to say Zeno physically scales is grasping for straws imo. The only solid info we have on him is speed and the power of his existence erasure.
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Offensive and defensive abilities are equal in DB.
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- Thread starter
- #149
^ You can't indiscriminately slap this argument on everyone in the verse. It happens to be the case since everyone follows the same character form of flying physical fighters who throw ki blasts, but this clearly isn't the case for Zen'o, who neither fights or use regular Ki attacks it seems.
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Also Babidi is an example of that being false, with durability being short of paper, yet generating a forcefield that could hold out against Majin Buu.
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This^, plus he sealed away Majin Buu in the first place. If this wasnt the case Buu could literally stare and both Babadi and his power would be overwhelmed due to the sheer gap.Unite My Rice said:
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Imo he should be
New ability: resistance to existence erasure
Resisted his own attack which is the basis for his current durability rating.
AP: Multi-Universe with erasure
Pointless to rate it at unknown, and claimining it should be lower because he used it against smaller targets is an AoE fallacy.
Durability: Unknown
New ability: resistance to existence erasure
Resisted his own attack which is the basis for his current durability rating.
AP: Multi-Universe with erasure
Pointless to rate it at unknown, and claimining it should be lower because he used it against smaller targets is an AoE fallacy.
Durability: Unknown
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Isn't there a statement saying Zeno is litterally untouchable.
If that's the case at the very least his durability scales off everything else.
If that's the case at the very least his durability scales off everything else.
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SameAntvasima said:
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