Zelda Stuff (mostly upgrades)

[LordXcano]

@Cal Okay, but I was asking for like a pic or a video of this. This would probably get it up to solid Planet level.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Best I can do is show this chart here -->



And link this video.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Azzy: So Majora is Planet level not because of said Moon drop obliterating the planet, but rather via scaling from Ganondorf, who should be capable of Moon level+ feats casually while weakened?

However, the part where Majora directly interchanging "earth" and "world" synonymously is very important, as it would literally solidify Majora's Planet level rating.

Although it still concerns me that Majora apparently reality-warped the Moon to be smaller than the regular Moon for some reason...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Lina

That and the world destruction thing, yeah.

Honestly, I'm assuming that was probably due to technological constraints, but I can't be certain.

 

[LordXcano]

Okay so Ganon stops the Earth's rotation, that's 2.138e29 J on its own. He also stops the Moon from orbiting so...

Moon Orbital Speed - 1023.1 m/s

Moon Mass - 7.35e22 kg

KE = (0.5)(m)(v^2) = (0.5)(7.35e22)(1023.1^2) = 3.847e28 J

3.847e28+2.138e29 = 2.5227e29 J, so still Moon level

Yeah, I didn't factor in that he stopped the Moon's rotation too, but even assuming that the Moon's rotation has as high a KE as the Earth's it's still just 4.66e29 J, so Moon level either way.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Moon level Ganondorf sounds okay. I probably proposed this in the last Zelda thread, but yea.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So Moon level for Ganondorf and everyone who scales to him, Planet level for Majora and the Fierce Deity, and Large Planet level for Calamity Ganon, Demise, SS Link, and Hylia?

Sounds right.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I was hoping that the bit of info had the implication of stopping the revolution as opposed to the rotation, but c'est la vie. I'm just happy with what we have.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So, speed talks. I'm kinda gonna need Matt back for this...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What about speed?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The whole Lightspeed light arrows and light spirits thing.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with Azathoth's last suggestions.

 

[PaChi2]

Even if they are made from "pure light", its clearly Magical "pure light", I dont think it should be considered lightspeed. We dont rate everything called "laser/light beam", lightspeed, right (Madara's technique comes to mind)?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Figured I'd bring this up.

Only scales to the Hyrule Warriors incarnations of the characters, along with a "Full Composite" Link, but it'd still make them At least High 5-A to Low 4-C (Since the complete Triforce >>>>> Golden Gauntlets).

 

[Dark649]

We already discussed about that and we dismissed it for how outlier and inconsistent this feat is.

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

We already discussed about that and we dismissed it for how outlier and inconsistent this feat is.

That was when Link was only Planet level..

 

[Antvasima]

Have all of the Zelda characters received appropriate explanations for the new statistics?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm fine with using the Planet-flipping for Hyrule Warriors and Composite.

 

[Antvasima]

Wasn't the planet-flipping discarded for other reasons than inconsistency? Such as simply being a change in perspective?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Even if they are made from "pure light", its clearly Magical "pure light", I dont think it should be considered lightspeed. We dont rate everything called "laser/light beam", lightspeed, right (Madara's technique comes to mind)?

Magical Pure Light isn't a thing. It's either magic light or pure light (though it can be created by magic). Madara's a different case as it comes from something extremely unreliable and has other unreliable things reverse-backing-it-up.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Wasn't the planet-flipping discarded for other reasons than inconsistency? Such as simply being a change in perspective?

I believe the arguement against it was mainly inconsistency, but there were not any real problems with the feat itself except for it being rather unconventional. When Link performs the feat, the camera flips upside-down. Those in favor of the feat argue that Link exerts enough force to surpass that of the gravitational pull of the planet, sending enemies flying into the air (and presumably causing mass panic across the globe!). The legitimacy of the feat is fine with me, anyway.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I personally find it to be more of an unreliable joke feat.

 

[Dark649]

I agree with Ant.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I disagree, there's no reason for the perspective to flip like that in such a context for any other reason, this is just like the FF VII Typhoon feat.

 

[PaChi2]

Magical Pure Light isn't a thing. It's either magic light or pure light (though it can be created by magic). Madara's a different case as it comes from something extremely unreliable and has other unreliable things reverse-backing-it-up.

Magical Pure light is a thing since it has Magical properties (damaging ganondorf) and has a statement calling them "pure light". If it isnt a thing as you said, I'd drop the statement of "pure light" because what is clear is that they are magical.

Edit: I agree with Matt on the Hyrule Warriors thing. They are treated as a separate continuity, so whats the problem?

 

[LordXcano]

@PaChi2 Damaging something doesn't make something not-light.

 

[The_great_ZZ]

If Link did flip the planet wouldn't the planet experience night at that moment of time.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

I'm starting to worry that this thread has too broad a focus. Let's figure out what to address first: the Hyrule Warriors planet-flip, the whole light ordeal, or something else entirely. I've gotta go away for a day or two, though, so have a good day, all! Keep up the good work!

 

[PaChi2]

@PaChi2 Damaging something doesn't make something not-light.

If ganondorf was damaged by normal light, I'd agree completely... (no irony, It just seems iffy)

 

[Iron_division_my_dude]

When did Ganondorf stop the earth?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

SO, since the wiki is back, mind picking back up on the light thing?

 

[Antvasima]

Have the attack potency/tier changes been performed?

 

[DocAnimeTheory]

Have the attack potency/tier changes been performed?

For all the higher tier characters, yes.

But as The Everlasting said before the low-end of Links bombs in Phantom Hourglass is Small Island level. Which should scale to the low level bosses and the sages.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Iron: Ganondorf stops the Earth during the Endless Night, where the area where Wind Waker is in is permanently night, and the day won't approach. Even the Song of Passing does not speed the time up.

As for how the day/night cycle works, you know that the Earth makes one full rotation every 24 hours. This means that while one side of the Earth is facing the sun (daytime), the other side of the Earth is facing away from the sun (night time). This process repeats itself every 24 hours, via continuous rotation.

If Earth's rotation is stopped, the process above is stopped, thus the place facing the Sun would permanently be day, while the place facing away from the Sun would permanently be night.

The place facing away from the Sun would be where Wind Waker takes place, since it is permanently night there.

Now then. Unless it explicitly says that Zelda's light arrow

• is stated to be a line/beam of light
• is stated to move at the speed of light
• looks like a beam/line of light (think of laser pointer/industrial lasers; straight line)

Zelda's light arrows are not lightspeed. Zelda's arrows would basically radiate light from the arrows themselves, but said arrows would not move at the speeds of light.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The first thing is stated in Twilight Princess. And the third thing is true too.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Screenshots please.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm kinda on a phone. But I can show the straight line stuff in the Ganondorf horseback battle. It's not continuous, but it doesn't stop until it hits something.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

And anyway, the light bow and arrows in that game were made of (of, not by) the light spirits, which have all had properties of true light. Massless (no one ever touches them, except Zant who uses twilight), becomes disembodied in twilight/shadow, destroys Twili, who cannot exist in natural light without help from the magic of a Triforce wielder (Zelda for Midna and Ganon for Zant), and lights up where they are, quite literally.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Since these various light things do happen to have many properties of light, particularly intangibility and masslessness, I think Cal makes a good case of them being actual light. However, perhaps we should quantify exactly how many properties something must share with light in order to possess light speed.