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Yukari Yakumo vs Hakumen

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CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
Guess what. I did. We pointed out the flaws of you claiming weaknesses when they're kinda on a grand scale with the output of lunarian magicians. By that I mean lunarians are absurdly powerful. Of course I'm not claiming they're 2C, even if one of them can technically summon one of (if not) the strongest 3-A in existence, but it's a notable damn feat.
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And who is the strongest 3-A in existence?
 
Andykhang said:
...You know that you kinda lose most of your credibility if you have to made your point in bold? Also you still didn't explain that how someone that could dispel a tier 2 feat isn't a tier 2 himself, so I'm inclide to buy into COB word.
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It's a defense against reality warping, I don't understand what's so hard to understand about it. Regardless of whether or not I could explain how it worked, it wouldn't change the fact it can nullfy phenomenon from the world. [AKA Amaterasu]. I feel like I have to repeat myself, when I'm just restating the main use of the PoO and how it was used in the series.
 
Oh, yeah. Hakumen even EXISTING is also more proof onto this. In Chronophantasma, he stops Rachel from observing him. Under normal circumstances Amaterasu would erase him from existence, since the fake body that is there isn't supposed to exist at all. [The real deal 100% Hakumen sealed himself away inside of the boundary.] but he simply resists it due to his sheer willpower, along with the power of order.
 
Though that action itself isn't the Amaterasu doing itself, but rather someone else borrowing it. Give me some proof that he could withstand it full might, for once.
 
Andykhang said:
Though that action itself isn't the Amaterasu doing itself, but rather someone else borrowing it. Give me some proof that he could withstand it full might, for once.
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Though you're correct, those actions aren't by Amaterasu's own will, they are by the one cotrolling it, and that same person is the same one who is creating the loops and resetting the universe to no end. Once again, Amaterasu gets it's 2-C ranking from events that take place within the games. So that is proof enough right there.
 
Andykhang said:
...And the resetting does affect Hakumen, or not?
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Not that I know of. As far as I'm aware in the current game, they went through a technical reset that erased nearly everyone's memories, aside from Jin Kisaragi and Hakumen. They were both in the same condition and mental state that they were in from before. Jin used his Power of Order to keep Trinity existing as well. This is technically the first and last Hakumen in the series so far, as this Hakumen was sealed away into the boundary, and it was also the same one that came out during the events of Calamity Trigger. One thing leading me to believe that he isn't aside from the technical reset is the fact that Jin still knows of Ragna even after the ending of CF, in which the whole world is reset and nearly everyone completely forgets that Ragna had ever existed in the first place.
 
So you're saying that we should trust the dialogues?


That's basically taking Yukari and making her an A-1 if we went by what characters say, her powers Yukari would be so OP to the point she could one shot anyone, or worse.


It's really doesn't matter if it's buffs or weaknesses we shouldn't consider words of characters as Truth, especially the word from touhou characters, They tend to lie a lot.
 
Akira1298 said:
So you're saying that we should trust the dialogues?

That's basically taking Yukari and making her an A-1 if we went by what characters say, her powers Yukari would be so OP to the point she could one shot anyone, or worse.


It's really doesn't matter if it's buffs or weaknesses we shouldn't consider words of characters as Truth, especially the word from touhou characters, They tend to lie a lot.
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That's an overstatement, but I see where you're coming from.
 
Yukari for Redgrave's explanation. Time killer can work with or againts Hakumen since it does take time to charge giving Yukari a huge opening to attack Hakumen adding on what Yukari can do, base on Core's explanation, Yukari has more then enough abilites to handle Hakumen.
 
Look, to everyone here, I'm agreeing that Hakumen would win if the 2-C feat is valid, but that's a pretty damn big stomp if you're including that. Otherwise, it's a high difficulty match for either siding on Yukari due to versatility of haxx and considering how she got recently upgraded too, or at least until someone comments on that page...
 
I doubt it works on spatial manipulation or something that directly since it only deals with reality warping. Also people like Rachel and Noel can apparently shut down the ability and resist it.
 
here's what it says in the wiki for it; "it simply counters something that threatens the world to maintain its balance, and the larger the threat, the more this power grows." so most of Yukari's abilites, with the exception of high level Reality and fantsy manipulation, would not be effected by Power of Order.
 
No, Rachel cannot shut it down. I'm assuming you were misreading what was stated on the wikia, which was that Noel is capable of nullifying it. That's because she's pretty much the only thing higher than Amaterasu in the series, other than the Tsukuyomi Unit, but that's only in terms of defense. You really can't just go off just the wiki though, you'd actually have to play the games to understand. He commonly uses it to counter things that don't involve "things that threaten to destroy the world". He can pretty much counter anything she can throw out, and is likely more skilled at actual combat.
 
well sorry for not having any of the games on hand. This website doesn't have anything on it or any of his aplications for the Power of Order so all I have to go by is the oficial wiki page.
 
Anyone can add anything to the wiki, and they really haven't touched up on that page. Hakumen has used it multiple times on things that wouldn't even be considered to be a threat at all. He's dispelled Rachel's observation over him before, as well as stopped Kokonoe's interference. None of those really have anything to do with what it's definition is, of course also take into consideration that it was it's 'original use', Which Hakumen and a few others have either intentionally, or unintentionally put it to use for other purposes. Another example would be Jin stopping Platinum from vanishing, despite the fact that Amaterasu was pretty much erasing everything. Normally that wouldn't matter, but Jin and Hakumen are the exact same person, except Hakumen has more control over the power of order than Jin does.
 
so it stop things from happening? in that case then Yukari is fine since most of what she would use in battle would be Gap, danmaku, and minor aplications of Reality and fantasy(mostly just for herself and any times she need to get rid of something cometowards her) and she's a master of them(for the most part of course) so once she relized that Hakumen can interfere with her abilites she'll easily be able to work aroud it. Also can he use it i the midle of battle or can he only use it out of battle? If its the former then Yukari cound work around it, if its the later then its useless in the battle.
 
Yes, he can use it any time during battle. It doesn't stop things from happening, it can detect and dispel reality warp. Pretty much anything she's going to use would be basically useless, and she'd have to rely on her own power for it. I'm not really sure how well that'd turn out for her, but it seems like she relies on that a little too much. I don't think Danmaku would really help her either, considering its literally a bunch of bullets placed in patterns. Hakumen has faced mass amounts of summoned swords coming in all different directions, I'd argue that being able to dodge mass amounts of swords all coming in random directions means that he wouldn't have much trouble there. I don't even think he NEEDS time killer here, if I'm not mistaken it's her ability that keeps her from dying, is it not? Hakumen could just negate it and cut her down.
 
even still I doubt it'll be too much of a problem for her, at the first couple of usage it'll surprise her but after a couple of time she'll be able to work around it, she's smart after all so I bet its within her abilites.

Can it work againts things after the ability is completed? like for exapmle if Yukari made a Mountain or a car dissaper with Reality and Fantasy or by useing her Gaps could he bring it back after its dissaper and the ability negates on Yukari's will? if not then Yukari is fine since even if he can use it in battle its not like he would be able to use it while attacking or defending unless you can show him being able to do that.

I agree that Danmaku wouldn't be much againts him but it would still work as a destraction. I don't think its her ability that keeps her from dying so no Hakumen can't just negate it, its her physiology as a yokai.
 
He'd only have to dispel of her ability once and it'd be gone for the time being that she is combating him. Her ability to manipulate things would be pretty much gone while the Power of Order is in effect and she'd be left with her own physical abilities to fight him, which seems to be Danmaku and her flight, but Hakumen has dealt with characters who are capable of flight, and I already said what I needed to on that.

HUnless Yukari is above him physically she is definitely not going to win this, and I really can't see anyway that she is. Even in his weakest state he matches her in AP, and at 100% he'd be able to Time Killer spam.
 
It was over, but then someone who actually knew about the character on the opposing side came in. Ironically enough, the person who made this thread was banned for touhou wanking and downplaying the other side.
 
Thats woth the assumption of it negates everything. Notnust reality warping. And you were already here back then. Dont make it seem like everyone else had no clue. Of course some of us do but some dont.

And hopefully when he comes back he leartn a thing or two
 
Most people started going to Hakumen's side when I started to make my points. A lot of the people in this have probably never even played any of the games, or took a look into how his ability is used and how powerful it is. Most people here are just pulling vague descriptions from other wikis.

Back to what I said, I was under the impression her inability to die was due to her ability in manipulating the boundary between life and death. If he negated that he should be to kill her without even using time killer. Oh, his blade is can negate magic too, lets not forget that.
 
I have the game and frankly I havent seen him lolnope everything in existence. Then again it has been awhile. Of courde it doesnt excuse one to br condescending. And so far you persuaded one person btw. And why else. You expect everyone to know about every franchise in existence here? And im pretty sure the only thing that would be affected by poE is the reality bending aspect of BM and not effects such as spatiality. And see even you show dont know everything by not being knowledgeable about Yakumo's barriers and spatial warping barriers that she specializes in. Wonder hoe would Hakumen deal with BFR or having a gap ruptute his neck.

Youkai Regenerationn stems from biology and physicality. Her inability to die not sure. So that will be effective.

... Realization. Andy comes back tomorrow.
 
BFR? Kokonoe tried to do this, trying to teleport him away from Ragna, in calamity trigger.

he basically said "no" and negated it.
 
Barriers aren't really going to help here, in Hakumen is no stranger to breaking through them. I don't expect them to know about everything, but I expect them to put some thought into their answers before they actually make them. Just saying "Hakumen wins" or "Yukari wins" with absolutely no reasoning behind it littles down an uneducated guess.

I don't think any of those things would really effect him seeing as her gaps are technically a part of reality warping, and he'd likely be able to get rid of them. Even if not, rupturing his neck wouldn't do much because he doesn't even have a human body, he's a walking suit of armor in a god armor.

Wait really? I thought he was banned for like a month back in January and just hasn't come back since.
 
As someone who can truly separate reality from fantasy? Aka those op barriers that wont let anything in and out unless very specific circumstances? From looking above they did. They just dont believe Hakumem lolnopes everything in Yukari's arsenal.

Dude. I specifically defined in her BM content revision page that it was spatial manipulation. I wouldnt be arguing for thatvif it was just part of it.

3 months... Banned at 13th... Tomorrow's 13th....
 
He was 20% when he was got rid of Kokonoes. I don't think he can get rid of everything, just a lot of what her ability is, is by definition spatial manipulation.

As for the barrier thing, that was in Central Fiction. I recall them talking about Hakumen being capable of breaking through one of Nine's more advanced barriers, though it would take him time.
 
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