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Yujiro vs Ikki

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Ikki have massive resistance to pain. He fought againts Edelweiss uncouncious, it's not only a one swing thing.
 
Which Edelweiss fight? The real Edelweiss or Sara's fake Edelweiss? There's only one instance of unconscious fighting on the respect thread.

Also yeah Ikki's resistance to pain is insane.
 
The real cal howard said:
Which Edelweiss fight? The real Edelweiss or Sara's fake Edelweiss? There's only one instance of unconscious fighting on the respect thread.

Also yeah Ikki's resistance to pain is insane.
Click to expand...
Againts the real one, he even copied her sword technique in that state.
 
Apparently, from what I've heard, the fact that his feats are purely physical means he's taking the brunt of all the savagery that's being thrown his way, and it hurts like hell, blocking Stella's and etc's attacks.
 
Againts the real one, he even copied her sword technique in that state.

Didn't she like...two-shot him? Also my suspicions were correct with that feat. It's not that he recorded her while unconscious but he managed to barely see her while she was blitzing him and he recalled the fact that he did at a later time so he could Blade Steal later on.
 
His Ogre Brain just makes Trackless Step as a concept not work because he specifically doesn't have the pauses that the step exploits.
 
Ok so few things to note:

  • Demon back? Seriously? Ikki fought and destroyed these ppl and a 2x amp is gonna be a game changer?
  • Why put 7-C Ikki? It's best if you did Low 7-C.
On to the points now:

@Rin The Dragon Empress

Ikki's resistance to pain is so good he was fighting at full power almost unbothered after this happened:

"Yes, yes, that's quite like you. Alright, to show a little respect, I'll give you a handicap. I'll tell you the place I'll pierce you next. Try and avoid it. Now, here I go. To start with, the left thigh."

"Gah!"

"What's the matter? Your reaction is slow. There, right shoulder!"

"Guh…!"

"Come on, try to dodge! The next one is your right ear!"

"Uwa!"

"Your movements are slow, Kurogane-kun! Don't you have some motivation? Put more spirit into it and run around! Here, left shoulder! Right thigh, right palm, calf, right knee, small intestine, stomach! Liver! Kidney! Large intestine! You'll die, you'll die! If you don't dodge well, you're as good as dead!"

"Guaaaaaaah!"

Ikki's knees finally collapsed as Kirihara's arrows started to fly at the internal organs in his torso.

After this happened, and a motivational speech from Stella, he got up, used Ittou shura and destroyed that guy. And Ittou Shura is like....his most taxing move. So practically speaking, that's about as far as you can hurt a person without actually killing him so Ikki yielding to pain is almost impossible.

@Risci

That single touch thing ain't working on Ikki. Not when he's got that level of body control and can even fight unconscious. So doesn't really matter.

@Cal

Actually he used Edel's sword style when he unconsciously attacked her to save his own life:

To the end, he had been trying to win against her. Against that edge, Edelweiss had been forced to protect herself completely, and as a result—her attack had faltered. A single step had rendered her fatal blow useless.

And so, Edelweiss had not slayed Ikki Kurogane's spirit.

Furthermore, that last bit of swordsmanship he showed was unmistakably—….

And about the unconscious fighting, it being for some time doesn't mean much. He regained his senses, cus he just lost consciousness from tanking a 6-B blow. But he used Madoka, out of the seven secret swords, Madoka was one of the hardest to perform as it required exact calculation and analyzation of the opponent's strength, Ikki failed to use Madoka even when he was conscious (due to Stella's reactive power level), yet he managed to do it while unconscious.

Additionally, it's not like activating Dragon Spirit changed Stella's true identity. Her thought patterns would be the same.


In which case, what he needed to do was the same.


(The first move will be a straight thrust towards my forehead! I'll counter the same way I did earlier!)


"HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!"


However, just as Ikki was about counter with Madoka, he saw a vision of his head vanishing.


"!!!!"


Following that instinct, Ikki immediately tilted his neck to the right.


Instantly, wind pressure like that of a passing cannonball assaulted his eardrums.


(The air next to my face just disappeared…! What an incredible thrust…!)


It was faster than he'd expected, and far stronger. It was a thrust that blew away even the atmosphere.


The increase in physical power from Dragon Spirit far exceeded Ikki's estimate.


Had he taken that with Madoka, the timing would have been off and his head would have been blown off.


His estimate had been off.

So yeah performing madoka while unconscious is not sth easy. There is also this:

From that one blow, the wound Ikki received was not deep. However, because the Device crystallized from his own soul had been shattered, Ikki's consciousness and body crumbled down.

Edelweiss did not give the final blow. He understood that there was no need for it. Having ended the fight, she turned her gaze away from Ikki―


"UuuaaaAAAAAAA!!!"


But at the moment Ikki's body would've hit the ground, incredibly, Ikki mustered as much of his strength as he could, and refused that last act. Grabbing a piece of Intetsu that was flying through the air―

"Aaaaahhh!"

He slashed at Edelweiss again.

That broken edge was easily blocked by the pure-white blade.

"…You still wish to continue?"

Ikki's action had made Edelweiss's heart waver just a little. She asked the knight who was now breathing over her shoulder, yet still grasping the broken shard of his crystallized soul.
 
Anyway even without bringing in trackless step and phantom form (you can give Ikki material form just fine in the OP the match can still be added).

Ikki is MASSIVELY above what Yujiro can hope to fight.

1. There is literally nothing Yujiro can do to even get past his blocking.

2. Xiao Lee is basically just a weaker version of what Ikki does with his block normally and having the ability to cut metal with paper with precision, would bypass that rather easily.

3. Perfect Vision basically guarantees a win.

Ikki low difficulty. Even without the skill based stat amps or the magic based Ittou Rasetsu, without trackless step, withou phantom form etc, ikki still massivel outskills.
 
Yujiro severees your nerves with that touch, body control isn't recovering that. And being pierced isn't as painful as what Yujiro does since having fingers pushed into your flesh to rip off ears, nose or veins is not worth much of a reaction by people at all.

And Yujiro is more skilled than Stella, and his amp is permanent. Her amps also don't affect speed, which make them quiet moot.
 
Touka fried his nerves and he recovered.

He fought 4 clones of himself which were all faster than him if you want to count that. Fu Xiaoli fought 10 people who were all more than 10 times faster than her and toyed with them because of the skill advantage.

And does Yujiro even amp his speed with demon back? Usually it's just 1 shotting ppl.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Touka fried his nerves and he recovered.
He fought 4 clones of himself which were all faster than him if you want to count that. Fu Xiaoli fought 10 people who were all more than 10 times faster than her and toyed with them because of the skill advantage.

And does Yujiro even amp his speed with demon back? Usually it's just 1 shotting ppl.
Click to expand...
Can I get a quote on that, because that is plain Regenerationn,

Yes, but said clones were physically incapable of nothing falling for a feint, and even Baki is capable of keeping up so much faster than him that he can't see them move.

Yes, all of his physical statistics get amp. His teeth position also amps him by 30% on top of that, and he can increase the oxygenetaion of hir muscles (which is what makes his veins appear) to become stronger too.
 
There is literally nothing Yujiro can do to even get past his blocking.

You can't just say that, no. And Yujiiro doesn't need to, he needs to not lose for one minute.

Xiao Lee is basically just a weaker version of what Ikki does with his block normally and having the ability to cut metal with paper with precision, would bypass that rather easily

A 10-C tanks attacks from a 7-C just fine. You'll have to prove that. And he fights people that can cut through metal with paper or just air from hand movements.

Perfect Vision basically guarantees a win.

Yujiro is a reactive fighter. However Ikki changes his tactics to fight him will have Yujiro changing his tactics. Predicting every possible reaction doesn't stop that, and doesn't him when he'll be just looking through Ikki's organs and just still reacting to what he does.
 
So it's just abusing the 1 minute limit? Sure

Yes they can tank punches, not slashes. Slashes that make Low 7-C dudes harm High 6-C.

Adapting doesn't save you from Perfect Vision. No matter how much you addapt as long as it's still Yujiro Hanma he can't escape perfect vision. Ikki's analization >>>> Yujiro so idk why "yujiro looks" is an argument.

As for the previous comment:

1. No a slap that got tanked by Yanagi isn't more intense than the pain from Yuuki's disease which makes highly trained soldiers instantly fall unconscious yet Ikki didn't flinch, or Ikki tanking getting a hole through just about everything that wasn't a heart, lung or brain.

2. Fu Xiaoli did deal with 10 people who were more than 10x faster than her attacking at the same time and all were masterful opponents. And Xiaoli would at best be comparable to Ikki.

Kiba, who adjusted his solid stance at the beginning, completely took the flow of the battle in his hands――

― You're truly amazing! I'm happy that I can enjoy myself 10 times all at once!

ÒÇîÒÇî!?ÒÇìÒÇì

At that moment, Kiba and Larp became speechless with the sight before their eyes.

The ice clones that attacked simultaneously at a speed that even created afterimages of them.

Xiaoli dodged all the storm of instant slashes unleashed by them.

No, she let the slashes go past her. That wasn't surprising in itself.

If the person had a degree of strength, then it was possible. Larp was one of them.

Surprisingly, Xiaoli's defensive body movements were also one of those.

A technique that didn't open their eyes wide.

A speed that didn't disorient them.

All the movements of Xiaoli could be followed by their eyes.

They clearly could see what she was doing and what she would attempt to do next.

That speed of hers was a tenth of Kiba's, or less――?

――And yet, she wasn't even grazed by the stroke of swords done by 10 people.

Not only that, in the little time between slash and slash,

She destroyed the『ice clones』one after another.

With palms.

With fists.

With kicks.

With the iron ball attached to her feet.

Reality betrayed the overwhelming difference in speed. That was the proof of the absolute difference in strength.

It didn't matter how slow her movements were――the techniques of a master couldn't be dodged.

There was absolutely no waste in her movements.

3. About the nerve cutting, how does Yujiro even do that? Also:

However, Ikki had baited that attack out.


(She's flustered!)


Just as Touka began her strike, Ikki steeled his writhing body.


Using the full body control he had cultivated, he forcibly restored function to his cardiac nerves.


Recovering from the shock in that instant, Ikki avoided the strike towards his head with the smallest possible sidestep.
 
<Fu Xiaoli defeated people 10x her

Stop. Right there. Why is this not BS for the same reasons the Ikki vs Clones fight is.
 
It's a technique that exploits the human anatomy. As Oliva (the first guy this was used against) says:

"In the book "The user illusion: cutting consciousness down to size", written by Tor Norretranders, Norretranders states that consciousness comes half a second after people move. They are triggered half a second earlier than the brain orders "move!". That means that, between when you are triggered and when you come conscious, you are unsconcious for 0.5 seconds and people can beat you as much as they like for 0.5 seconds. Almost an invisible moment. "

And he cam spam this. As many times as he wishes.
 
Schnee One said:
<Fu Xiaoli defeated people 10x her
Stop. Right there. Why is this not BS for the same reasons the Ikki vs Clones fight is.
Click to expand...
I mean, Xiao-Lee did make someone who is 10-C physically fight with someone who is 7-C...
 
@KGifonni

Nah, Ikki taps into his unconsciousness. It won't work.

@Schnee

Because the reason that was said to be so is cus it said nothing of how he dealt with the speed. This actually explains that they just are so skilled they can deal with faster attacks.
 
Soooo both counter what each other have and both can one-shot each other via skillz

I see this coming out as inconclusive. Guess i'll post this on the triforce.
 
And how is Ikki dealing with constant fear aura that makes people paralyzed?

Oh, and Yujiro knows the 60 second limit via his extremely accurate information analysis.
 
KGiffoni said:
And how is Ikki dealing with constant fear aura that makes people paralyzed?
Oh, and Yujiro knows the 60 second limit via his extremely accurate information analysis.
Click to expand...
He dealt with Edelweiss. It ain't bothering him. Not to mention Ikki himself has such strong willpower it makes thousands of people feel fear just by looking at him.

Hardly, Ittou Shura uses magic, Yujiro can't analyze that.

And they don't really counter each-other. Ikki still has plenty of things, not to mention touching Ikki is a herculean taks for people faster than him, stronger, with more range etc. Doing as much as grazing him is a huge acomplishment. Even stella called bringing down Ikki when he was on the defensive difficult.
 
Honestly, the same can be said for Yujiro, the difference is that Ikki has more feats for it. People who are master martial artists can't even hope to touch a serious Yujiro. About Phantom Form:
0231-0104

Yujiro has sixth sense that could make him, someone who is 7-C, see danger in the fist of someone who is 10-C. It could also sense the danger in the Phantom Form strikes.
 
Ikki also has that 6th sense except Ikki can also make his attacks seem less important with trackless step, so unimportant people block it from their mind consciously. But even if we don't resort to trackless step:

Edelweiss sword style makes attacks almost impossible to perceive.

And you can make Ikki start with Material form intetsu, it's ok.
 
Trackless Step still doesn't work because of Yujiro's physiology.

And attacks being impossible to detect after they are plain announced despite the enemy being faster is what Doppio does, he had the shit beaten out of him.
 
You have not really explained why that High 6-C calc is not wrong to me after that little argument on discord, but I'll ignore that.

Perfect Vision has the problem that there isn't a counter to every possible form. Ikki predicting what Yujiro does will not let him negate it. Him adapting his stance and attack would let him negate it. But Ikki changing would make Yujiro change, and that would make Ikki change, etc. Seeing every possible outcome doesn't mean that you can counter them all at once.


Getting holes through you, and enough pain to fall unconscious are pathetic resistance feats. People have their eyes gouged out, are eaten and ripped apart, have their limbs and bones crushed, their nerves and blood vessels pulled, and so on. People worth anything don't react to that with anything but being annoyed in Baki. The number of holes wouldn't increase the pain, either, after the first few the pain would stop growing (it would plain stop as the body just enters shock and ignores all feeling).

Beating 10 people 10 times faster than you is still bs unless they are absolute shit at fighting, or too weak to really hurt you. It's dumb, but by that logic he can mimic Doppio's ability of being able to just tell someone where he will hit and attack slower than them, but still hit because he trained for decades and his attacks can't just be dodged.


Yujiro's attacks severe the nerves, which doesn't seem to be what goes on here. Like, his attacks plain cut nerves aparts (if he wants them to).
 
Explain why Yuji's physiology negs trackless step.

Well your problem was essentially "is it caused by heat?" and yes it is, the latest chapter proved it. And the 2nd one was "it should get colder with range", which is plain wrong as it's the "fire" that burns at that level, not stella. Stella uses magic which is then used to create fire with that range. The heat past the fire obviously decreases, as long as they are enveloped by the fire which is created from magic to burn at that heat they will suffer that much heat.

Perfect Vision tells ikki everything Yujiro can and will do, along with his exact thoughts, feelings what ikki should do to counter them, the weakpoints, whether Ikki should attack or defend and more. There is literally nothing Yuji can do past a move that literally tells Ikki what to do to win.

Well ugh...Baki or Yanagi sure as hell do not have any feat beyond what Ikki has shown and they both tanked the slaps. Also ikki tanked a punch from Stella, if you still think that your slap is worse, then all the more power to you. Considering it's still assuming ikki won't skill is way out of the slaps like he has done to like....every kind of attack ever. Though if you wanna count another thing, Ikki was unbothered by an attack that attacks him with vacuum which is basically what Yanagi does. But again, it's assuming the slap will reach ikki in the first place which it literally won't.

They were both grandmasters with worldwide fame for that. And that's the Rakudai verse we're talking about. Xiaoli was a top tier in terms of fighting capability. All the clones had the ability to 1 shot and all attacked in unison. She dodged everything and killed all the clones several times (cus the clones can regen infinitely). Again, the verse literally said that with enough skill you can do that, same as how a verse like Records of Ragnarok had Sasaki fight someone who was so much faster than him, he could form literal vortexes of afterimages. A lot of verses do that.

Yes, they can, but he still ain't landing a hit on ikki. Literally everyone in rakudai Ikki fights is under these same conditions (can 1 shot, are stronger, faster, but even more advantages usually, like unable to be 1 shotted, massive range advantage etc).
 
People saying Yujiro couldn't touch Ikki are forgetting that there's not much difference between them. Both have precognition, 6th sense, know all the martial arts there are, can copy and improve techniques with a glance, Ogre Physiology counters Trackless Steps, 0.5s unconscious is useless, etc etc. I don't see this coming to an end, thus i'd vote inconclusive. But i can't.
 
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