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Yu-Gi-Oh! GX and 2-C: The Last of Many.

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Well again, there is precedence in universes in GX having see-through dimensional barriers. Look at Neo Space where Jupiter is in the background.
the link doesn't work
Zencha's argument that it really meant space though doesn't make much sense, considering they translated Neo Space accurately in the same sentence. And that they also used uchu for the 12 dimensions too, so ironically it'd still downgrade them.
you're ignoring the context again and no it wouldn't because the 12 dimensions are not always called uchu they are also called alternate worlds(sekai) and because like i said i could prove how every other interpretation doesn't make sense except for them being universes
 
This seeks speculative at best, ignoring the bizzareness in him shrinking himself to 5-B level? I also don't think it was ever stated the world of darkness could shrink. Only grow.
then give me statment saying that the universe has energy cuz only humans were stated to have , and like i said it would just be treated like other spirits so the rest are erased
 
uchuu means (universe/space) but it depends on the context in japanese
the problem is the fact that SD is presenting that as an issue the verse has that it usually refers to small pocket dimensions as universe when it only happened once and before the rules for alternate dimensions were explained in the show

Once again, I have to point out 'uchuu' is also used for the dimensions too. Sekai means world or planet, not universe. That means the moon sized Neo Space is actually more consistently called universe than the 12 dimensions.

and he is ignoring the context of the aqua dolphin scene since it wasn't referring to the actual neo space as shown in the video he posted
and i would also quote what someone said regarding aqua dolphin's statement

The flowery language argument doesn't really make much sense with your own scans.

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Where it clarifies once again after all that the Neo Space is a universe.
 
then give me statment saying that the universe has energy cuz only humans were stated to have , and like i said it would just be treated like other spirits so the rest are erased
Of course the universe has energy, even if we ignore the stars or planets. Zexal's cosmology, GX's Light and Darkness, and Neo Space are still things here.

Also the elephant in the room being his entire goal is the destruction of the universe.
 
Once again, I have to point out 'uchuu' is also used for the dimensions too. Sekai means world or planet, not universe. That means the moon sized Neo Space is actually more consistently called universe than the 12 dimensions.
they're clearly not planets showing by the starry skies the the 12 dimensions have so it's weird to say that. worlds that are described as universes and parallel worlds that is based on quantm theory you're really gonna say to my face that they aren't universal in size we're having this again ??
The flowery language argument doesn't really make much sense with your own scans.

a377c020bc258ff3d236a9fd3cd11aa4.png
0ae8fadb22080007bc0404510ca97e38.png

Where it clarifies once again after all that the Neo Space is a universe.
cuz it's not referring to the same neo space it's his imaginary space as shown by the scans they don't show neo space in the main universe aqua dolphin reffers to this weird looking world inside jaden's mind it's also shown when he fights saiou
Of course the universe has energy, even if we ignore the stars or planets. Zexal's cosmology and Neo Space are still things here.

Also the elephant in the room being his entire goal is the destruction of the universe.
no it does not at least not spirit/duel energy since if it has then every monster would have been able to manifest and **** earth 24/7
zexal is not treated as canon rn . and that was due to neo Spacians being the warriors of darkness and they became alive due to the gentle darkness
 
they're clearly not planets showing by the starry skies the the 12 dimensions have so it's weird to say that. worlds that are described as universes and parallel worlds that is based on quantm theory you're really gonna say to my face that they aren't universal in size we're having this again ??

I brought up sekai's definition since it doesn't mean universe. I even linked it. So stop bringing it up as an argument.

cuz it's not referring to the same neo space it's his imaginary space as shown by the scans they don't show neo space in the main universe aqua dolphin reffers to this weird looking world inside jaden's mind it's also shown when he fights saiou

Neo Space isn't imaginary. I'm not even sure how to respond to these statements at this point.

no it does not at least not spirit/duel energy since if it has then every monster would have been able to manifest and **** earth 24/7
zexal is not treated as canon rn . and that was due to neo Spacians being the warriors of darkness and they became alive due to the gentle darkness

Zexal is canon, they reference both GX and the og series when Yuma fights a man that literally makes it a shadow game. Also that doesn't address Neo Space or the rest of the cosmology or again the elephant in the room that no matter how you try to excuse it, Darkness was gonna destroy the universe.
 
Context matters, yes.

So when we see a moon-sized universe and the World of Darkness being the size of Earth after consuming 11 dimensions, it shows that universes in GX aren't 3-A in size.
 
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I brought up sekai's definition since it doesn't mean universe. I even linked it. So stop bringing it up as an argument.
not necessarily no, the reason i brought it up to disprove the 12 dimensions being just planets since it contradicts what's been shown (starry skies&constellations)
Neo Space isn't imaginary. I'm not even sure how to respond to these statements at this point.
the one in the main universe isn't
Zexal is canon, they reference both GX and the og series when Yuma fights a man that literally makes it a shadow game. Also that doesn't address Neo Space or the rest of the cosmology or again the elephant in the room that no matter how you try to excuse it, Darkness was gonna destroy the universe.
sure i'll accept that as canon for argument sake
again how does that say that the universe has duel energy ? also i never said that he wouldn't consume the universe
So when we see a moon-sized universe and the World of Darkness being the size of Earth after consuming 11 dimensions, it shows that universes in GX don't have to be 3-A in size.
even ignoring everything ive said about neo space it still would be an oultier to the rest of the series and just realized that like i said manifestations in the real world , that's contradicted by the fact of the 11 dimensions having starry skies&constellations
 
not necessarily no, the reason i brought it up to disprove the 12 dimensions being just planets since it contradicts what's been shown (starry skies&constellations)


I'm saying they're around the size of planets not actual planets, and like I've mentioned before, both Neo Space and the World of Darkness have transparent dimensional barriers (allowing people to see Jupiter and Earth respectively), so the stars aren't part of their universe.

sure i'll accept that as canon for argument sake
again how does that say that the universe has duel energy ? also i never said that he wouldn't consume the universe

Multiple sources of duel energy come from space, such as the Numeron Code for example. It also doesn't have to just be duel spirits either, he also intended to consume life itself. And considering the gentle darkness is stated to be half of the universe and create life, that would include a significant amount. So it doesn't make sense for him to shrink himself.

even ignoring everything ive said about neo space it still would be an oultier to the rest of the series and just realized that like i said manifestations in the real world , that's contradicted by the fact of the 11 dimensions having starry skies&constellations

Which is why I mentioned the World of Darkness, which consumed said 11 dimensions but was only Earth sized afterwards.
 
I'm saying they're around the size of planets not actual planets, and like I've mentioned before, both Neo Space and the World of Darkness have transparent dimensional barriers (allowing people to see Jupiter and Earth respectively), so the stars aren't part of their universe.
scans about the 12 dimensions having dimensional barriers ?
Multiple sources of duel energy come from space, such as the Numeron Code for example. It also doesn't have to just be duel spirits either, he also intended to consume life itself. And considering the gentle darkness is stated to be half of the universe and create life, that would include a significant amount. So it doesn't make sense for him to shrink himself.
Numeron Code doesn't get it's powers from space where do you get that ?
i didn't say he shrinks himself im saying that he can't manifest more than a planet sized world the rest will get erased just like spirits
Which is why I mentioned the World of Darkness, which consumed said 11 dimensions but was only Earth sized afterwards.
like i said the main universe isn't just made out of duel/spirit energy unlike the 11 dimensions
 
also your dimensional barriers argument is horribly wrong since duel academia has a dimensional barrier does that mean that duel academia is universe ?
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scans about the 12 dimensions having dimensional barriers?

? Unless you're implying these universes are just part of space, they have barriers.

Numeron Code doesn't get it's powers from space where do you get that ?
i didn't say he shrinks himself im saying that he can't manifest more than a planet sized world the rest will get erased just like spirits

What I'm saying is the Numeron Code is in space. Scans on that he can't manifest more? Sounds more like he just can't manifest more because its 5-B.

like i said the main universe isn't just made out of duel/spirit energy unlike the 11 dimensions

Yet he still desires to consume all of the main universe.
 
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? Unless you're implying these universes are just part of space, they have barriers.
no im questioning that since they never limit what's within the barriers to be universes like ever
What I'm saying is the Numeron Code is in space. Scans on that he can't manifest more? Sounds more like he just can't manifest more because its 5-B.
the Numeron Code is created by the Numeron Dragon...., really ?? monsters that are 5-A can't manifest this not a point
Yet he still desires to consume all of the main universe.
i didn't say otherwise
 
No limits fallacy?

Can you rephrase this?

And again, you say that but also say he only wanted to manifest a 5-B part of it's universe.
 
No limits fallacy?
no im just saying that universe = barriers is wrong
Can you rephrase this?
it's created from the power that created the universe and shares a names with said power (code)
And again, you say that but also say he only wanted to manifest a 5-B part of it's universe.
im not saying that he only wanted to manifest a 5-B part of the WoD im saying that he is forced since he could only manifest that much
 
I'm not saying that. I mean the divide that separates it from just being part of space.

That's a good description for staff but doesn't really counter anything.

And why do you say that?


We're derailing so nevermind my response. The point is, when a universe in a series is shown to be 5-C and another one is 5-B after eating 11 universes, its obvious that these aren't low 2-C universes.
 
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We're derailing so nevermind my response. The point is, when a universe in a series is shown to be 5-C and another one is 5-B after eating 11 universes, its obvious that these aren't low 2-C universes.
yeah when a unrlated dimensions that came before the rules of the 12 dimensions were established and the context is completely ignored regarding the use of uchuu and ingoring how aqua dolphin is referring to the imaginary space that jaden goes to when he's in trouble and ignoring the fact that by your interpretation makes neo spacians's existnce not make any sense since they are the protectors of the main universe not the universes (meaning that neo the actual neo space that is in the main universe isn't considered a universe ) and how for the entirety of the LoD arc they refer the the observable universe as a universe and how all of that is under the name of 1 dimensions you're also contdicted by the show since they don't ever refer to dimensional barriers as their own universe and you're contradicted by how moons stars and constellation are parts of 12 dimensions
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8efb417b86996a6d4f4cb143a1d43804.png
 
Do we see more of these 12 dimensions? I guess I compromise could be laber their entirety as "at least 4-A, likely/possibly 2-C", as they have stars and could be other universes.
 
Do we see more of these 12 dimensions? I guess I compromise could be laber their entirety as "at least 4-A, likely/possibly 2-C", as they have stars and could be other universes.
yeah that's we see
the problem with the compromise is the fact that the human dimension is just the normal universe so the rest of 11 dimensions would parallel that
 
Do we see more of these 12 dimensions? I guess I compromise could be laber their entirety as "at least 4-A, likely/possibly 2-C", as they have stars and could be other universes.
Problem is, these universes' divides are transparent.

You can see Jupiter from Neo Space and Earth from the World of Darkness for example.

I'm also pretty sure they were 4-A until it was debunked. I'll have to check the older threads to make sure tbh
 
no they're not divided a regular satellite reached neo space
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duel academy (an island) has a dimensional barrier and it is neither a universe nor a separated space
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bring up another argument since you're contradicted by the show itself
 
no they're not divided a regular satellite reached neo space
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Pardon my butting in, but I'm concerned I may have missed something. Earlier, you said:
and like i said before it was only once was neo space was referred to as uchu in the entire show and that was before the 12 dimensions rules existed
and don't get me started on aqua dolphin referring to the imaginary space the place that is in jaden's mind as neo universe as shown here
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"and don't get me started on aqua dolphin referring to the imaginary space the place that is in jaden's mind as neo universe as shown here"
Were you not saying there that Neo Universe is imaginary & in Jaden's mind? If so, how did a satellite reach it?
 
Were you not saying there that Neo Universe is imaginary & in Jaden's mind? If so, how did a satellite reach it?
there's a difference between the imaginary space the place that is in jaden's mind and the neo space in orbiting jupiter
im talking about this space bellow
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If I'm going to be blunt:

This imaginary space doesn't exist, there isnt an imaginary realm or anything like that.

At this point you're just making stuff up to be hide your contradictions. Kinda like scaling Exodia to Yubel by stating the user's dueling spirit doesn't affect Exodia's AP, only for the entire scaling thresd to be dependent on it.

Or earlier in this thread, saying the World of Darkness is 5-B because only a part of it can manifest.
 
This imaginary space doesn't exist, there isnt an imaginary realm or anything like that.
how does it not exist when it's shown that it exist it's literally just like johan
At this point you're just making stuff up to be hide your contradictions. Kinda like scaling Exodia to Yubel by stating the user's dueling spirit doesn't affect Exodia's AP, only for the entire scaling thresd to be dependent on it.
what stuff am i making up ? tell exactly what im making up
Or earlier in this thread, saying the World of Darkness is 5-B because only a part of it can manifest.
ah yes let's ingore the laws of the yugioh universe
 
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At this point you're just making stuff up to be hide your contradictions. Kinda like scaling Exodia to Yubel by stating the user's dueling spirit doesn't affect Exodia's AP, only for the entire scaling thresd to be dependent on it.

Or earlier in this thread, saying the World of Darkness is 5-B because only a part of it can manifest.
Okay it’s one thing calling someone stupid but you’re really gonna try accusing him of making stuff/lying when he was actually providing evidence the whole thread while your argument hinges on a different location being called a universe and like one image?
Like if I was Zencha I’d be offended asf lol, even if you disagree you don’t need to be that disrespectful
 
You guys have to make an episode timeline of all the statements to get a better view of what's consistant.
it's not really needed since it's not important to the current discussion and DM to 5D's very much canon and treated as such
though the rest is debatable
 
Should I ask more staff members to help out here again?
 
i really doubt that would change anything with somebody ignoring the rules of the verse and saying stuff that are contradicted or using a single scan to try to change the context how a word is used in the entire series relating to the a thing(the 12 dimensions) that didn't even exist yet or just dismissing the argument for no reason as he did in his last comment
but feel free to do so
 
i know make a blog explaining the verse cosmology with relevant scans and link it here.
many verses have a verse cosmology blog. make yours.

you guys arguments are all over the place it is hard to know which is which
dude we are not discussing cosmology
sure i will make a blog for it but for other crts it's not important here
 
Would any of you be willing to help out with evaluating this please? The discussion seems to go around in circles.
Honestly, I get the notion that the verse is wildly inconsistent based on the arguments above- I don't know rightly how to approach this, though I'm leaning in favor of SD's proposal if only because the verse seems to bounce between definitions, so a conservative take is better in my mind.
 
Honestly, I get the notion that the verse is wildly inconsistent based on the arguments above- I don't know rightly how to approach this, though I'm leaning in favor of SD's proposal if only because the verse seems to bounce between definitions, so a conservative take is better in my mind.
it's not really SD is just taking a single statement that existed far before the the 12 dimensions and it's rules existed in the show and applying it to the entire show and said statement is out of context that was referring to something else rather the the actual neo space and that is the imaginray space in jaden's mind and i will elabroate on what that statement is referring to in the next post
 
Neither of you are using single statements and neither of you are making arguments as weak as the other is trying to portray it as. From where I sit, both of you have reasonably compelling arguments- which is a problem, since it means the verse is somewhat inconsistent in its phrasing and portrayal of shit. Which, in my book, means I go with the lesser option- better to underestimate than overestimate, imo, though this largely comes down to personal opinion.
 
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