Yu-Gi-Oh! DM (Canonicity Issues + Changes) II

[SomebodyData]

And once again, I never said the legend stated that. I said, and I quote:

"Which we see that when Prana leaves, the effects are gone in cases before that (Such as the fact that the half-dimension created left the moment Diva did, Joey regaining his memories despite being destroyed, etc)."

Key word here is "we see"

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

The movie states that all the pharaoh does is negate or take away the prana powers from the kids.

Yet he can restore the damage done, or at least, the damage he is aware of. Because he didnt restore the bullies nor Kaiba' henchmen.

 

[SomebodyData]

Yes, the Pharaoh. Prana leaving's effects =/= Pharaoh coming effects

Where was it stated that they didn't come back?

 

[Arigarmy]

it isnt. we just never see them again past that point because they're no longer plot-relevant i guess

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

You guess.

And where does it say that "taking away Prana" means reversung the effects?

 

[SomebodyData]

Both are guesses @Megaboy

It doesn't state it. We are shown it (Again pointing back to examples)

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Now, now.

Are we getting any conclusions?


And, sorry to go against ya Data, but saying that Atem shouldnt get any tier upgrade because you guess "taking away Prana" means reversing all of the damage done .

 

[Arigarmy]

There's nothing to revise, nobody put any Prana information on any pages.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Well, if there is nothing to revise, maybe we needed to define.

Would Atem get 3-A from reversing the damage done by Prana? Is Prana 3-A? Kaiba and yugi should get resistance to "Good" Diva´s prana? Any tier for Obelisk destroying the maybe or not room level dimension? How would you define Kaiba´s Obelisk summoning to be?

 

[Arigarmy]

1. Mmmm, I don't think so. The return of Atem is what nuked the Prana, not Atem himself.

2. Mmmm, it's debatable with all the claims and whatnot. Maybe it'd be a better way to look for what the sub says to compare rather than the dub exclusively, even if the 4Kids influence is way gone by that point. It may help in deciding a little bit, who knows?

3. Probably not.

4. Honestly I would say asspull or PIS. There's really no logic behind Obelisk being summoned.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

1.-Well, Megaboy prime hasbeen trying to argue that the only statement about Atem and Prama is that if the pharaoh comes back "Their powers would be gone". There is no statement about it reversing the damage, and thus, should be given to Atem himself. imo, imo.

2.-Its almost the exact same dialogue between the two versions aside from a lemonade joke when Yugi summons Lemon MG, but hey, lets check out the exact quote.

3.-Isnt it clearly shown that the reason Kaiba wasnt affected by Prama is his new duel disk? Same new duel disk Yugi has on the final duel? 4.-I dont think its PIS, since Kaiba has been shown to have a closer relationship with Obelisk than Yugi, and the new duel thing is about the mind, maybe he can think his deck into existence.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah no.

I already explained and made a bunch of these counters before. I heavily disagree with tier 3 Plana, let alone tier 2.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Yeah yes.


And before you continue, i shall post multiple scans to prove my point.

But, lets go slowly and examine every thing i have an issue with.

First off.


Base Diva´s dimensions are far above room level, as it was wrongly tought in the Kaiba vs Diva duel.




We might not know the "accurate" scale of this dimension, but it scales to Imagination!Obelisk directly by destroying it.


At this point, i think its fair to assume at least City Level.


Room Level Dimension? Dont kid me.

 

[Arigarmy]

@Kukui

Have you ever considered doing more than saying "already said it before"? It'll be easier to paste the arguments or link them rather than say you've already done it. It not only saves post counts, it also saves time for both parties.

@Rapid

Only "their powers would be gone"? I don't think reversing the damage matters, Atem's retur negates and eliminates the Prana. I fail to see how that relates to his AP.

There isn't a "relationship" with God cards.

I'm unclear about what you're completely implying with "think his deck into existence", because we could be thinking of different things here. I'm thinking about Millennium World, and how Bakura demonstrated how people and himself could imagine a deck and duel disk in the memory world. Whether or not that could be replicated with the Prana's powers is up to debate, though.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Dont worry, the scans will solve all of your doubts.

Just give me a minute, i mean, its a 2 hour movie after all. There are tons of quotes in here.

And scans, are the absolute truth.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Major Issue #2

You said and i quote

"3. Probably not." about Yugi and Kaiba resisting Prana with the new duel disk.



mokuba - "What did you do to him?" diva - "I just got rid of him, i send him to another dimension."



This proves, beyond the shadow of doubt that the Duel Disk DOES give you resistance to prana, and by extension, a limited form of BFR.


And before you even dare to deny this, i will end this doutb with an extra scan.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Arigarmy

With all due respect, these were all points that I literally addressed to the same people in the last thread you made to the same people and somehow they're being brought up again.

That said, if you want me to re-explain everything, i'll do so.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Issue #3

Kaiba summoning Obelisk

Diva states that in a dimensional duel, you have to infuse your monsters with your soul to give them attack points.

Kaiba summons Obelisk by reaching to the ground and Dimensional summoning Obelisk by infusing his soul with it, even if the card is gone.

This confirms that the god card´s power exists beyond the cards in the mangaverse.

And, Obelisk´s mere presense was already destroying the at the very least City Level Dimension, Since i already proven that Diva´s dimensions are not bound by buildings.

And before any of you plan PIS, it is explained that Kaiba´s soul is just that strong and should maybe even scale to him directly.


This proves, without a shadow of doubt, that Kaiba´s Obelisk summoning is legit and justified and thus, should be scaled to AP.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

1.) Kaiba "negating" the Plana. In my opinion, it should only count as resistance to BFR and nothing else since Diva was only using the Plana in that way against Kaiba. Saying his duel disk can no sell anything more than that is speculative NLF. And since his duel disk is a unique one (literally gives Kaiba mental and full on connection to Kaiba Corps technology network), only Kaiba should get the resistance.

2.) This "multiversal" stuff needs to stop, seriously. Already addressed this 3 times in the last thread. There is not once piece of evidence of the Plana effecting other dimensions than Yugi's, thats it. And given the rate of the Plana's erasure, it may not even be universal (and this is coming from someone who previously argued for it.) It's likely at best planetary.

3.) Kaiba summoning Obelisk is just that, summoning. I don't know where the "it was summoned from his head" business comes from. Theres 0 proof of that whatsoever.

4.) The Atem stuff. Once again, Atem reversing the power of the plana does not scale to him at all. The Plana's activation is simply tied together with his presence, nothing else and is blatently made clear throughout the whole movie. When Yugi sent Atem back to the afterlife, Diva and the others obtained the Plana. But if he should ever return at all, it will dissapear. Even manifesting inside Yugi's body will make it instantly vanish (like when beating Dark Diva). This was precisely why Diva wanted to get rid of Yugi in the first place. It doesn't mean Atem gains any level of AP from it.

5.) Obelisk's dimension destruction is either unquantifiable or incredibly unimpressive as some think it is. Diva's dimensions from that of Dimension duels are literally just the size of the area you duel in. Even taking the area where he and Yugi dueled at face value, thats at best a city sized dimension, which is already lower than what the God cards are at already IIRC. Take your pick.

6.) Atem has literally nothing to do with what Diva was doing to Joey. AT ALL. Joey survived the erasure because he remembered Atem, which is too strong of a memory for Diva to erase, therefore he cannot erase Joey because of it. That wasn't literally Atem. If it was, the Plana would have been erased right then and there and Joey right afterwards confirms its a memory. So no, Atem gets no hax from this period.

7.) "The no stars or planets" argument I already countered last thread. People need to stop ignoring stuff. There being no stars visable doesn't mean they weren't effected since the erasure can very well just cover the planet and erase only that, which is also classifiable under "world". "World" doesn't always automatically mean universe.

8.) Where is this "Kaiba's henchmen were erased" stuff coming from? They weren't erased at all. Diva literally just BFR'd them to another dimension and blatently says this.

Im sorry, but at this point this is nothing but pure wank.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Im sorry, Kukui.

But i´ve won.

You have lost.


https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RapidMotorcycle19/Yugioh_3-A_Prana

 

[Arigarmy]

You can't just say you've won with only yourself for confirmation. I'll check the blog when I wake up tomorrow though

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

You cannot disprove scans and direct quotes.


It is over.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Given I already brought forth my debunks. here's some advice.

Don't say you've won and that your word is suddenly absolute when its not. Especially when you left a message on my own wall stating as such and you being the only one who actually thinks your in the right.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Pffff.

You cannot debunk scans.

And i really dont care about your advice, to be honest.

You have not debunked anything yet, not that you will be able to. I made my case with statements and scans.

You will give up eventually.


Also, this isnt a democracy, you can have 10,000 users say that the earth is round and you will still be wrong. In this case, you have lost.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I most certainly can if they're taken out of context, twisted, manipulated and other such means. Scans aren't always absolute.

Up to you then, but i'd lost that cocky attitude if I were you no offense. You won't be seen as anything good around here acting like that.

>Havent debunked anything

According to you and only you.

And not a democracy? You must not know this wikia very well do you? We are a democracy and a flawed example thats easily debunkable and would never be agreed upon legimitately won't prove otherwise.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

already replied to your thing in my blog.

And i must say im dissapointed.

You say you care so much about how many people agree with who, so lets let the people decide based on the evidence ive presented and your...rants.

Seriously, i wont even bother adressing the "World" thing since it is common knowledge by now.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Seriously? That's not even a counter, but only you saying its debunked when it wasn't. Not here, not there and again only according to you.

You literally addressed nothing from my debunking reply.

And btw, I don't hate 3-A Yugioh since incase you didn't listen before, I was the 1st person to argue for DsoD being that tier the most. I only agree if I believe it is with good reasoning. And here its not at all.

 

[JohnConquest1]

You guys gotta calm down.

Acting like this isn't really getting the discussion anywhere.

Focus on other issues before arguing 3-A for the DSoD characters.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I was always and still calm. I have no issues or qualms here whatsoever.

Not to point fingers, but Rapid was the one who mssged my wall and started instigating thinking everything he was saying was absolute and that he's suddenly high and mighty. Not going to note anything further than that.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Fine by me.

But what else is there to discuss for Manga Yugi?

There are no feats that even come close to 3-A in Arigarmy´s notes. So i think its reasonable for me to not be that interested anything else.

Does Yugi even appear on the GX manga?

 

[JohnConquest1]

According to the yugioh wiki he only appears in a 5Ds what if scenario, but its uncited. In GX he's only mentioned in passing.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Then i dont think im that interested.


I mean, Manga Yugi doesnt even have probability manipulation or magic according to OP, 3-A or higher Prana is probably the only thing he has going for him.

 

[Arigarmy]

John's correct, the only mention of DM characters are Yugi by various people and Seto/Mokuba from Aster. Tragoeida's backstory is related to Kul Elna though, but it's not that much of an impact on the story.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

It does not matter. Manga Yugi is literally fodder without Prana.

 

[Arigarmy]

Not like we can do anything about it. He's got decent hax and the God Cards/Mahado.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Exept, ive already proven beyond doubt that he has DM hax, pal.

Did you see the blog?

And Sacrifice Obelisk is High 3-A.

 

[Dark649]

Which we cannot insert in the profile from being game mechanic.

 

[SomebodyData]

You've proven nothing that hasn't already been debunked. @Rapid

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I don't have an opinion on the other stuff so i'll leave that up to everyone else but as far as DsoD goes, nothing from that is Tier 3 or higher either due to repeated uncountered and ignored debunks.

 

[Megaboy_Prime]

What are you two talking about? Nothimg about Rapid' blog has been debunked.

Now that i realize, no one but you two agree with each other.

Weird, huh?