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Yu-Gi-Oh! DM (Canonicity Issues + Big Changes)

Shadi is also referred to be the spirit of the Stone Tablet if I remember correctly, ie they're the same.

A) Assumes that same reason is to confirm it is a Millennium item. Put to even more doubt considering it would have been easier to just confirm it.

B) Don't see how Shadi randomly having an artifact that is a millennium item after the original ones were created that happens to manipualte a completely different source of energy and has no precedent to justice or evil, unlike the millennium items, is any better?

C) That thing wasn't left behind by Atem tho???
 
Do you happen to have that scan? It would help a lot.

A) So what other reason do you suggest it's there for? A red herring?

B) It's powers are still related to justice and evil going by the dialogue.

C) Not the cube. The Plana itself.
 
Nope, but I think Saik and the rest here can confirm it if they comment.

A) I'm saying we shouldn't assume things about a statement that is already a question to begin with.

Also, just checked the script, it wasn't even referring to the Cube, it was referring to the return of the Millenium Ring (Sera thought it was a new one)

B) Nah, said dialogue is literally about how the quantum cube can be used for good and evil, it would be like me stating nukes are millennium items because they can be as well.

C) ... No? It is a power that only activates when he leaves (and is destroyed completely if he returns), while it is obviously related to him somehow, Atem didn't leave it behind. This can also be confirmed by everyone else.
 
Yes, very doubtful because the manga didn't build information to a prequel-esque scene 12 years after the manga finished.
 
"Also, just checked the script, it wasn't even referring to the Cube, it was referring to the return of the Millenium Ring (Sera thought it was a new one)"

So the Millennium Ring was what was remaking the world? Because that's an extremely important distinction.

"Nah, said dialogue is literally about how the quantum cube can be used for good and evil, it would be like me stating nukes are millennium items because they can be as well."

That's a bit of an oversimplification that could apply to most of the Items, but now I don't know if this dialogue was even referring to the cube, since apparently the same scene is about the Ring?

"... No? It is a power that only activates when he leaves (and is destroyed completely if he returns), while it is obviously related to him somehow, Atem didn't leave it behind. This can also be confirmed by everyone else."

Don't they directly say the pharaoh left it behind? Because I need some sort of reference as to where it's confirmed to not be left by him as opposed to "everyone else can confirm it", unless someone else has the scene.
 
Arigarmy said:
Yes, very doubtful because the manga didn't build information to a prequel-esque scene 12 years after the manga finished.
Click to expand...
It wouldn't be doubtful if DSoD didn't exist. However, the movie portrays things in a very different light, and suggests Shadi was a human who was killed as opposed to always having been a spirit.
 
That was more a joke than anything, I'm focusing on other topics ATM. I should probably go to the calc request thread to dump those storms on 'em.
 
Never said it was the one remaking the world? I was referring to the specific quote, the remaking the world is still the Cube (albeit corrupted, doesn't change anything)

Nah after that millennium item statement they start talking about the cube again (At least, its origins and power that is), so don't worry about that.
 
Ah, I was a bit confused, because I'm assuming the quote happens in the same scene in the sub, which is right after Dark Diva comes out of the Cube and it begins remaking the world. What is the exact series of quotes in the script?
 
It was still the same scene, they just change topics.

(Note this does not include who says what, so watch out for confusion)

Here:

"Big Brother!

Don't tell me...!

That cube is the door

to a dimensional domain.

An eighth Millennium Item!?

Shin-sama had to gather the seven Millennium Items

and send the spirit of the Pharaoh

to the netherworld in order to

activate the power of the cube.

So that this sullied world

would dimensionally shift

and we would build up

a brand new world...

Yes, that cube...

was the door leading to a utopia

for the chosen people and them alone.

Precisely, Sera.

But, should so much as a drop

of the beautiful impurity known as hatred

mixes into the dimensional domain...!

Big Brother...

Sera!

Come, I shall make both

of you fall victim as well!

At this rate, everything is

going to be consumed!

Yugi!!

Yugi...

Do you still have the will to fight?

Kaiba-kun!

Diva, you and I...

are going to settle this right now!

To protect my friends

I will fight you!

Duel!!

Duel!!

Intriguing.

Consider this the start of

a dark dimensional domain duel!

Darkness! Darkness! Darkness!

Consume the light

and abscond the world!"

Link: [1]
 
Seems legit. Though I'm trying to find the actual scene in Japanese for sourcing purposes, which is unfortunately a lot harder than I thought.
 
That "universe" was literally the size of the room they were in...
 
Now, now. I think you should know that Base Diva's dimensions are literally the size of the memories the victim has right? Its obvious when you look at Joey's bfr


Not to mention that Corrupted Diva's range is at least universal if not more based on the fact we do not see the stars as the world was being erased on the finale. And the opening of the movie shows that the YGO verse has tons of alternative universes.
 
Aka. The very finale of the movie proves its universal sized because we dont see stars.

If it was just planet sized, we would see the stars, right?

The stars will finally show us the way to the truth i wish!

This mere fact proves that at least Corrupted Diva and Atem are at the very least Umiversal on their own!
Screenshot 20180119-230946
Its over 3-A yugioh!
 
Okay no. There are A LOT of problems with this.

1. The alternate universes stuff. It's just like I said to Seed earlier. Not one time in the whole movie are those dimensions ever implied to be threatened by that of the Plana's power or even created by it. They're just alternate dimensions, nothing more. Hell, where in the movie proves those spheres in the movie opening are even alternate universes when they can easily just be opening flashy effects like in any anime movie?

2. Diva's "dimensions", like SD said, are literally just the size of the duel field or room at best. It's speculation to say every single one his dimension-duel effects makes is the size of Joeys when nothing proves that either. Joey's is a specific case since Diva strictly made it out of Joeys own personal memories. We could even say that memory world for Joey wasn't even a universe but, even assuming otherwise, that definitely doesnt apply to every run of the mill dimension Diva makes.

3. I shouldnt even have to say that the dimensional setting brought up in dimension dueling isn't made from one's memories. I don't even know where that suggestion came from.

4. Background isn't much of an argument. Since Diva and the other Plana users consistently say "World" over and over involving its power, the darkness enveloping everything would be safe to say planetary. But universe? Too speculative (and this is coming from someone who tried getting this accepted as universal). Just because we don't see stars doesn't mean they were erased when the darkness can easily just be covering the planet and erasing it from within the darkness.
 
Sorry, but yes.

1.->Opening flashy in openings Sorry bud, but its is proven by the fact that the movie starts by zooming in into one of those spheres and shows the YGO universe we know, the rest of the spheres are also universes by logic alone.

2.- Erm, yes it does. It has like two forms One Its made out of memories, like Joey's.

But when Fighting Kaiba, it covers as much as needed for the duel, bit that is not a limit per se, saying its room sized is as illogical as saying its universal lr any size, but it is the size of the memories the victim has, which is also 4th dimensional.

3.- it does, diva says so as he started dueling kaiba.

4.-it is, if it was just planet or "world" sized lile you so argue, you would be able to see the stars or other planets in the background as the earth is being BFRd.

But no, if you dont see anything but that darkness it is implied it erased everything to that point.

Not to mention using "world" is also a non argument since various verses use that world to refer to an universe as well.

Lile dragon ball, code Lyoko, SAO, Megaman Battle Network, etc.


Looks like you've been debunked, sir.
 
1. That is not a counter in the slightest. If it's not even mentioned in the very movie itself that those spheres are alternate dimensions, that already makes the chances of that statement being true very tiny at best. And even then, that still wouldn't make Diva universal at all since the Plana never effects those "dimensions".

2. And again, what evidence proves that? Joey's reality is literally the only one thats strictly made from memory. Everything else is just an unquantifable sized pocket dimension. And that isn't changing unless you have some evidence to say otherwise.

3. No he certainly didnt. Diva literally just changed the room into the setting for dimension dueling, explained the basics to Kaiba, and they dueled. Thats it. Again, evidence of this would be nice.

4. BFR means to transport or teleport someone or something to another location/world. The earth wasn't being BFRed, it was being blatently erased by the dark Plana. The darkness can just as easily be covering the earth and erasing it over the darkness erasing anything else, especially at the slow rate it was doing it.

>SAO

>Universal

Yeah no.

Besides, the other verses you mentioned have much more solid stuff going for them then here. Hell, there's only a single statement that debatebly supports universal plana. Diva saying "its the greatest force in the universe" and that by itself isn't enough for a tier 3 or higher rating.
 
1.-How can you prove that? After all, we dont see any of them after Corrupted Diva starts banishing the world, sir.

2.-oh, but i do, sir.

To be honest, i am dissapointed in the fact you havent been able to realize it yet.

I already posted up there, right up this little discussion of ours. Diva himself has shown that Prana has universal range my teleporting alm the way to the astral plane (were the kiddo are) and the mortal one.

Please, do keep on trying to debunk me. Its very amusing.

3.- Read above, sir.

I hate repeating myself.


4.- I was talkimg about the use of the word "The World" in fictional verses, Tho....

Anyways, thanks for helping my point, sir.
 
1. "The world". So your admitting its only one? And if it can't be proven, it shouldnt be claimed. We don't go off of speculation.

2. That isn't evidence of his dimensions being memories (which still doesnt ,mean they'd be the same size as Joeys, which even THAT is questionable) and that realm where the Plana users gather isn't the astral plane. It's simply a realm that serves as a gathering place for them. Where is it even suggested its the astral plane in the movie? You seem to be either making things up or taking things out of context with all due respect. Also, i'd drop that attitude of yours. "Amusing me" doesnt set a good image for you, especially what happened earlier with SSB. And of course the Plana gives you universal range when it blatently sends victims to different dimensions. Thought that was a given from the start.

3. That doesnt answer this point. Again, give evidence please or this point too is moot

4. Which can literally mean a billion different things instead of automatically assuming universe.
 
The use of the "World" in fiction varies way too significantly to use as an example.

Heck, in Yugioh alone it had varied from timelines in Arc-V, planets in Zexal, a location orbiting Jupiter in GX, and etc.
 
yeah but we're talking about the manga + dsod, the spinoffs aren't really that relavent
 
Pfff.


I realized you seem to still be unaware of what i am talking about, what a shame, sir.


I used that as an example on how many different verses use the word "World" to refer to the universe, but you seem to not know that.


Ahahahaha.


Oh boy.
 
Can your argument be an argument and not just you laughing, that seems a bit disrespectful to him my guy.
 
Oh, sorry.

I beg your pardon.

That laugh was one of relief, of competition, not of humilliation, that wasnt my intention at all, friend.


I just find a laugh refreshing after arguing.
 
Well, i think the God cards might be around tier 3. because of Dsod, but i think we are looking for the pre-dsod God card tiers.
 
Dude, nobody has agreed with your argument except yourself. They aren't gonna be Tier 3 from a vague statement anytime soon.

@Data

1. Zorc's everything/Blue-Eyes

2. Bakura

3. Yugi/Marik
 
I said "I think", didnt i?

Anyways, any findings on that? Did Joey also get struck by lightning in the manga?
 
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