Yu-Gi-Oh Content Revisions Steamrolling

[Nehz_XZX]

Nobody wants to comment on a thread which is going on for eons, at circles and with a verse I imagine most don’t care for vs debating wise

This’s just a dead horse both sides are not willing to let rot lol

Well, I care for the verse but I honestly don't have much to add to the debate.

 

[Antvasima]

@SomebodyData

If you make an attempt to write a genuinely good and easy to understand thorough explanation of what needs to be evaluated here, I can make another attempt with asking the rest of our staff for help.

 

[Zencha9]

it's really not that hard it's mostly just 2 things

do you consider fusing souls to be AP related ? (like an anti feat) if yes then you're with SD if no then you're with me
do you think judai and yubel's soul died during the fusion? if yes then you're with SD if no then you're with me

 

[Antvasima]

Please elaborate/explain the context better.

 

[Zencha9]

@SomebodyData
says that the explosion here killed yubel and jaden and thus it's an anti feat since this new explosion is weaker than the explosion that was going to fuse and destory the 12 dimensions

• the new explosion is the result of jaden redirecting the fusion from fusing the 12 dimensions to fusing his and yubel's souls ( scans 1 , 2 ) the yellow aura is the lasers that was going to fuse the 12 dimensions and it was nullified by jaden's trap

my side is saying that

1. yubel and jaden didn't die nor did anyone that got caught up in the new explosion (the one that fused jaden and yubel's souls) because as you can see everyone got transported into their home dimensions in this video and jaden returns in the next ep as seen here
2. jaden straight up says that they didn't die when they fused and that yubel became a part of his soul as seen here keep in mind that jaden's souls is a soul of a normal human so he can't just regenerate
3. it's just fusing souls ie soul manip why would it be an anti feat or anything ap related? i heard of 4-D soul manip but never of 2-C soul manip or anything like that

and SomebodyData has yet to give any evidence saying yubel and jaden's souls died during the explosion

 

[Antvasima]

@SomebodyData
says that the explosion here killed yubel and jaden and thus it's an anti feat since this new explosion is weaker than the explosion that was going to fuse and destory the 12 dimensions

• the new explosion is the result of jaden redirecting the fusion from fusing the 12 dimensions to fusing his and yubel's souls ( scans 1 , 2 ) the yellow aura is the lasers that was going to fuse the 12 dimensions and it was nullified by jaden's trap

my side is saying that

1. yubel and jaden didn't die nor did anyone that got caught up in the new explosion (the one that fused jaden and yubel's souls) because as you can see everyone got transported into their home dimensions in this video and jaden returns in the next ep as seen here
2. jaden straight up says that they didn't die when they fused and that yubel became a part of his soul as seen here keep in mind that jaden's souls is a soul of a normal human so he can't just regenerate
3. it's just fusing souls ie soul manip why would it be an anti feat or anything ap related? i heard of 4-D soul manip but never of 2-C soul manip or anything like that

and SomebodyData has yet to give any evidence saying yubel and jaden's souls died during the explosion

@SomebodyData

Do you have anything to add to this?

 

[Zencha9]

 

[Zencha9]

@Antvasima
anyways since SD isn't around can you contact some mods i will too

 

[Abysswalker2126]

So what do we think of the idea of Monarchs embodying the concept of destruction?

Master duel is giving us some good lore like how Ruin is capable of resetting the world with time manipulation and how ruin can completely pulverize it into nothing with blue flames

 

[Confluctor]

It does seem like the "weaker" explosion didn't kill them. Just teleported them away. Even the original video shows effects that are often used for teleportation.


As I mentioned earlier, I obviously agree with Zencha. His argument makes more sense. On top of that, SD's argument that their powers were augmented don't seem to have a proper backing from the story itself.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Also those with a millennium items or psychic abilities are capable of manifesting their monsters outside duels and harming people

 

[Zencha9]

It does seem like the "weaker" explosion didn't kill them. Just teleported them away. Even the original video shows effects that are often used for teleportation.


As I mentioned earlier, I obviously agree with Zencha. His argument makes more sense. On top of that, SD's argument that their powers were augmented don't seem to have a proper backing from the story itself.

yea pretty much like i never knew why i tried to prove jaden and yubel didn't die when SD didn't bring any evidence of them dying
and they literally show up in the next ep and
(this just proves i'm a shit debater)

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Also while on the topic of yugioh crt can we get some attention to this thread

https://vsbattles.com/threads/yugioh-dt-worm-ability-addition.121892/

 

[Zencha9]

Also those with a millennium items or psychic abilities are capable of manifesting their monsters outside duels and harming people

yea all of these are gonna be a included in the big crt i'm planning

 

[KingTempest]

Personally agreeing with Zencha

 

[Zencha9]

thank you

 

[SomebodyData]

It does seem like the "weaker" explosion didn't kill them. Just teleported them away. Even the original video shows effects that are often used for teleportation.


As I mentioned earlier, I obviously agree with Zencha. His argument makes more sense. On top of that, SD's argument that their powers were augmented don't seem to have a proper backing from the story itself.

He's arguing that the super poly explosion just BFRs them while simultaneously claiming they would become 2-C through surviving the explosion- if you could explain to me how this makes sense, that would be helpful.

Not even Zencha would argue fusion doesn't amp their abilities, and I'm not sure where you're getting "not having a proper backing", it's literally the whole point of fusion.

 

[SomebodyData]

yea pretty much like i never knew why i tried to prove jaden and yubel didn't die when SD didn't bring any evidence of them dying
and they literally show up in the next ep and
(this just proves i'm a shit debater)

It's literally confirmed the next episode, hell- it's even in the title: "Judai reborn!? A New Journey"

I didn't link it before because I assumed you already saw the episode before making any claims about it.

 

[SomebodyData]

@SomebodyData

Do you have anything to add to this?

Of course, although since I'm using Crunchyroll, my scans are a bit lacking in quality so forgive me.

The issue with Zencha's side is that its missing context most of the time:

1. yubel and jaden didn't die nor did anyone that got caught up in the new explosion (the one that fused jaden and yubel's souls) because as you can see everyone got transported into their home dimensions in this video and jaden returns in the next ep as seen here

What's missing: Jaden was reborn the next episode when Sho wished upon a star; it's even in the title of the episode: "Judai reborn!? The Next Journey"

1. jaden straight up says that they didn't die when they fused and that yubel became a part of his soul as seen here keep in mind that jaden's souls is a soul of a normal human so he can't just regenerate

What's missing: This is post-rebirth, also a mistake on Zencha's part. Jaden dies right after his soul leaves him, (around 8 seconds in) so it's narratively false.

1. it's just fusing souls ie soul manip why would it be an anti feat or anything ap related? i heard of 4-D soul manip but never of 2-C soul manip or anything like that

What's missing: That's not what my argument is. After they fuse souls, Super Poly still creates a weaker explosion, which they die to. It just sounds like a strawman to me.

It's also rather ridiculous that Zencha has been claiming in other posts that the explosion that killed then was just BFR. Especially when neither Yubel or Jaden were actually in the group that teleported.

It's also just a weakened version of the 2-C Super Poly explosion btw. The same thing Zencha is simultaneously arguing would be an explosion that they would scale to but also just BFRS them?

 

[Zencha9]

It's literally confirmed the next episode, hell- it's even in the title: "Judai reborn!? A New Journey"

I didn't link it before because I assumed you already saw the episode before making any claims about it.

Using episode titles as justifications when the it contradicts the show is not allowed look at dragon ball
Unless again you're claiming that jaden who has a normal soul has mid godly which is hilarious

 

[Zencha9]

What's missing: Jaden was reborn the next episode when Sho wished upon a star; it's even in the title of the episode: "Judai reborn!? The Next Journey"

Again using episode summary when it contradicts the actual show jaden is just a normal human he doesn't have mid godly regen or whatever

What's missing: This is post-rebirth, also a mistake on Zencha's part. Jaden dies right after his soul leaves him, (around 8 seconds in) so it's narratively false.

Doesn't matter he describes it as yubel becoming a part of his his soul not his soul dying you have to prove that his soul died and it's straight up contrdicted by the show

What's missing: That's not what my argument is. After they fuse souls, Super Poly still creates a weaker explosion, which they die to. It just sounds like a strawman to me.

It's also rather ridiculous that Zencha has been claiming in other posts that the explosion that killed then was just BFR. Especially when neither Yubel or Jaden were actually in the group that teleported.

It's also just a weakened version of the 2-C Super Poly explosion btw. The same thing Zencha is simultaneously arguing would be an explosion that they would scale to but also just BFRS them?

I have no idea what to say except say "do you not understand how yugioh works?"
like yubel activates super poly and then when jaden redirects the fusion he activates super poly meaning it's a new fusion and it's a fusion that fuses souls instead of dimensions like bruh it's not the same

 

[SomebodyData]

Using episode titles as justifications when the it contradicts the show is not allowed look at dragon ball
Unless again you're claiming that jaden who has a normal soul has mid godly which is hilarious

Contradicts what? We literally see Jaden come back in the episode after dying in Yubel's arms the previous one. He's not among the people who were BFRed the previous episode either

Post-fusion with Yubel is definitely not a "normal soul", it's also just unexplained in the show. Although I think we're supposed to believe Sho's wish caused it.

Again using episode summary when it contradicts the actual show jaden is just a normal human he doesn't have mid godly regen or whatever

Doesn't matter he describes it as yubel becoming a part of his his soul not his soul dying you have to prove that his soul died and it's straight up contrdicted by the show

I have no idea what to say except say "do you not understand how yugioh works?"
like yubel activates super poly and then when jaden redirects the fusion he activates super poly meaning it's a new fusion and it's a fusion that fuses souls instead of dimensions like bruh it's not the same

You literally provided the scan where it's stated he fused with Yubel and are arguing he's 2-C; he's not a normal human by your own admission

Why do you keep saying I'm arguing for soul destruction?

It's still super poly that causes the explosion, that's the point.

 

[Zencha9]

Contradicts what? We literally see Jaden come back in the episode. He's not among the people who were BFRed the previous episode either

Post-fusion with Yubel is definitely not a "normal soul", it's also just unexplained in the show. Although I think we're supposed to believe Sho's wish caused it.

Contrdicts yubel being a part of his soul
By nature no he's a normal soul he's not some kind of spirit that regenates as many times as he wants he just has high spirit energy because of yubel and thus can manifest spirits in the real world

BRUH

You literally provided the scan where it's stated he fused with Yubel and are arguing he's 2-C; he's not a normal human by your own admission lmao

Why do you keep saying I'm arguing for soul destruction?

It's still super poly that causes the explosion, that's the point.

Again his soul is normal he just has high spirit energy
Because the explosion affects souls simple as that
New explosion on a lower scale and still not the same explosion

 

[SomebodyData]

Contrdicts yubel being a part of his soul
By nature no he's a normal soul he's not some kind of spirit that regenates as many times as he wants he just has high spirit energy because of yubel and thus can manifest spirits in the real world

Not a contradiction though? It just meant that Yubel came with him- which is what we see.

His soul is fused with Yubel by this point, it's no longer a 'normal soul'.

Again his soul is normal he just has high spirit energy
Because the explosion affects souls simple as that
New explosion on a lower scale and still not the same explosion

Again, his soul is fused with Yubel, it's no longer a normal soul.

.... So where does the 2-C durability come from, if the explosion affects souls instead?

It's literally just a weakened version caused by Super Poly. The only difference is the AP.

 

[Zencha9]

Not a contradiction though? It just meant that Yubel came with him- which is what we see.

His soul is fused with Yubel by this point, it's no longer a 'normal soul'.

Still only a part of his soul and even if she has mid godly she would not be able to save him since she's only a part
and i just realized that this is from sho's perspective so not an omniscient narrator and is pretty much invalid

Again, his soul is fused with Yubel, it's no longer a normal soul.

.... So where does the 2-C durability come from, if the explosion affects souls instead?

It's literally just a weakened version caused by Super Poly. The only difference is the AP.

Again that still won't save jaden unless he's a part of her soul which isn't the case here
Im a bit confused you're arguing the explosion killed them right? Not their souls being merged
Still a activation and a new explosion and it's clear that the explosion varies in power due to the things being fused Because it's been activated before and it only caused minor storms

 

[Antvasima]

@SomebodyData
says that the explosion here killed yubel and jaden and thus it's an anti feat since this new explosion is weaker than the explosion that was going to fuse and destory the 12 dimensions

• the new explosion is the result of jaden redirecting the fusion from fusing the 12 dimensions to fusing his and yubel's souls ( scans 1 , 2 ) the yellow aura is the lasers that was going to fuse the 12 dimensions and it was nullified by jaden's trap

my side is saying that

1. yubel and jaden didn't die nor did anyone that got caught up in the new explosion (the one that fused jaden and yubel's souls) because as you can see everyone got transported into their home dimensions in this video and jaden returns in the next ep as seen here
2. jaden straight up says that they didn't die when they fused and that yubel became a part of his soul as seen here keep in mind that jaden's souls is a soul of a normal human so he can't just regenerate
3. it's just fusing souls ie soul manip why would it be an anti feat or anything ap related? i heard of 4-D soul manip but never of 2-C soul manip or anything like that

and SomebodyData has yet to give any evidence saying yubel and jaden's souls died during the explosion

Of course, although since I'm using Crunchyroll, my scans are a bit lacking in quality so forgive me.

The issue with Zencha's side is that its missing context most of the time:

1. yubel and jaden didn't die nor did anyone that got caught up in the new explosion (the one that fused jaden and yubel's souls) because as you can see everyone got transported into their home dimensions in this video and jaden returns in the next ep as seen here

What's missing: Jaden was reborn the next episode when Sho wished upon a star; it's even in the title of the episode: "Judai reborn!? The Next Journey"

1. jaden straight up says that they didn't die when they fused and that yubel became a part of his soul as seen here keep in mind that jaden's souls is a soul of a normal human so he can't just regenerate

What's missing: This is post-rebirth, also a mistake on Zencha's part. Jaden dies right after his soul leaves him, (around 8 seconds in) so it's narratively false.

1. it's just fusing souls ie soul manip why would it be an anti feat or anything ap related? i heard of 4-D soul manip but never of 2-C soul manip or anything like that

What's missing: That's not what my argument is. After they fuse souls, Super Poly still creates a weaker explosion, which they die to. It just sounds like a strawman to me.

It's also rather ridiculous that Zencha has been claiming in other posts that the explosion that killed then was just BFR. Especially when neither Yubel or Jaden were actually in the group that teleported.

It's also just a weakened version of the 2-C Super Poly explosion btw. The same thing Zencha is simultaneously arguing would be an explosion that they would scale to but also just BFRS them?

@Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Ogbunabali @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou

I am making a final attempt to get some staff members to help evaluate this thread, so we can finally finish it.

 

[Antvasima]

It does seem like the "weaker" explosion didn't kill them. Just teleported them away. Even the original video shows effects that are often used for teleportation.

As I mentioned earlier, I obviously agree with Zencha. His argument makes more sense. On top of that, SD's argument that their powers were augmented don't seem to have a proper backing from the story itself.

Personally agreeing with Zencha

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Zencha9]

a minor stuff about the epilogue and title of ep 156
1-it is named "Judai Revived!? A Brand New Journey" it has ? so title itself is not even sure due to having a question mark which leads my next point
2-it is from sho's perspective so it's not an omniscient narrator or anything like that (here is the vid of sho talking + translations)
3-he uses the term fukkatsu which is a Synonym for coming back and it makes much more sense given how judai coming back is stated
and jaden/judai dying is straight up contradicted as stated here and here

and even @SomebodyData's interpretation that "sho's wish made jaden/judai revive" doesn't make sense since the shooting star appeared before sho made the wish it is the shooting star that made sho make his wish to begin with since there's legends that wishing when shooting stars happen can make your wish come true and not to mention that the shooting star is literally jaden himself

 

[Ogbunabali]

It's literally confirmed the next episode, hell- it's even in the title: "Judai reborn!? A New Journey"

Is there anything mentioned in the episode specifically, or is it just the name? Since you linked the whole episode.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for being willing to help out, Ogbunabali.

 

[Zencha9]

Is there anything mentioned in the episode specifically, or is it just the name? Since you linked the whole episode.

just the name i am sure i watched the whole ep
my post above details why even the name is clearly inconsistent with what's being stated in the show

 

[Qawsedf234]

I am making a final attempt to get some staff members to help evaluate this thread, so we can finally finish it.

I'm just honestly not the best person for this thread.

 

[Zencha9]

understandable

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Did they get hit by the actual 2-C explosion or not? If they didn't, then they don't scale, period.

 

[Elizhaa]

I will try to reply tomorrow.

 

[Zencha9]

Did they get hit by the actual 2-C explosion or not? If they didn't, then they don't scale, period.

Well yubel specifically stated that she and jaden would survive the explosion it's her entire goal in the final act of season 3

 

[SomebodyData]

She doesn't say that in the scan you linked; she says, and I quote:

"It's over! And by ending everything,

I claim all your love for myself, for eternity!"

And then the argument starts again, et iterum

 

[SomebodyData]

Is there anything mentioned in the episode specifically, or is it just the name? Since you linked the whole episode.

They avoid saying he's dead, just sacrificed like in the scenes of 2:17 - 2:50 or 3:30 - 4:20 where the characters grieve over him.

Though the most explicit proof is the fact that he's not among them, when Zencha is claiming it just BFR'd him along with the others.

 

[Zencha9]

They avoid saying he's dead, just sacrificed like in the scenes of 2:17 - 2:50 or 3:30 - 4:20 where the characters grieve over him.

Though the most explicit proof is the fact that he's not among them, when Zencha is claiming it just BFR'd him along with the others.

Yeah Because they weren't there when jaden/judai told Sho that he's not gonna kill himself hence them not believeing in sho and thinking judge/jaden died they weren't there they lack knowledge thus it's pretty much invalid

She doesn't say that in the scan you linked; she says, and I quote:

"It's over! And by ending everything,

I claim all your love for myself, for eternity!"

And then the argument starts again, et iterum

No it does not because the whole fused jaden isn't a thing at that point so you can't even claim that jaden would regenerate the only thing protecting jaden was yubel's aura

(can't give scans for both cases since im in collage atm but i'll post them as soon as i get home)

 

[Zencha9]

Well yubel specifically stated that she and jaden would survive the explosion it's her entire goal in the final act of season 3

Also this isn't all evidence i have 2 other points like how duelists and cards empower each other via spirit energy and the yubel's aura that i remembered only briefly
Of course ill post the scans as soon as get home