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Yhwach vs Ultron (MCU)

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Swerzye29038 said:
Easy counter because of precog due to almighty.
Click to expand...
Ultron can counteract Precog with his own Clairvoyance and Multiversal Cosmic Awareness

Plus what is Precog actually gonna do here?
Ultron can easily Move across Multiverse Ranges with Dimensional Travel and that Almighty doesn't have feats of tracking beings across Multiversal distances

So Ultron can easily evade Almighty by moving out of its sight range
Same can't be said for Yhwach as Ultron's Cosmic Awareness spans the Multiverse

Swerzye29038 said:
Ultron never did this iirc and isn't listed on his profile, and even if he has, it isn't something he'd do even when bloodlusted, considering the fact that he didn't use it once while fighting the Avengers.
Click to expand...
1. He did use it against the Avengers
2. Its listed in his profile that he can use the powers of the Infinite Gauntlet which States ), Time Manipulation (The Time Stone can rewind, speed up and stop time)
3. The rules of bloodlust allows characters to use the most busted move set in their arsenal regardless of how in or out of character it is
Swerzye29038 said:
Doesn't work because of precog, reactive evolution, fate manipulation, and immortality with almighty.
Click to expand...
Precog is counteracted by Clairvoyance and Cosmic Awareness
Is he gonna evolve into a being with 4-D power and resistances? Cause if not then no amount of evolving is putting him on par with 4-D powers
Fate Gets Resisted
Ultron can Incapacitate Yhwach
Swerzye29038 said:
See above

1. Ultron's fate hax resistance is pretty limited and pales in comparison to Yhwach's fate hax abilities. The mechanics of the watcher's fate hax is still vague and clearly limited, as he himself didn't even know if Clint and Nat were gonna find Zola. I guess they have fate resistance, too.
Click to expand...
Its not treated as limited resistance and the Fate Hax of the Watchers spans over a Multiverse way more complicated than Bleach verse

Infinite Worlds trump the many worlds Yhwach can possibly see
Swerzye29038 said:
2. The stones themselves are 3-D, they have 4-D properties (which is something Yhwach has, too).
Click to expand...
Ummm No
Yhwach does not have 4-D power
Where is that even shown or stated?
 
Swerzye29038 said:
None of the reasons I listed above have anything to do with soul crush, so it seems you didn't read what I actually typed. Either way, Ultron literally has a soul stone in his head.

This isn't a response. I never said he didn't have fate resistance, I said it's likely extremely limited, due to the watcher having a mysterious and vague cosmic awareness ability. We don't know the true mechanics of it, and we know it doesn't always work.

I never said he did. I said he had 4-Dimensional properties, which is pretty much undeniable
Click to expand...
You literally replied saying that soul crush would work on him
Ultron is explicitly called out as a exception of the watchers sight unlike others which can just be plot holes
Are you even arguing here he has no feats of nulling 4-D stuff so he cannot null the infinity stones which have 4-D powers
 
Livinmeme said:
What stopping ywach from changing fate so ultron never gets the infinity stones
Click to expand...
That's sounds like Rewriting the Past to make something not Occur not changing the future
That's the equivalent of Saying Yhwach could change fate so the That Ichigo never meets Rukia and becomes a soul reaper
 
speedster352 said:
Like I said yhwach has all the schifts so that means intangibility and durabity negation with the x axis, reactive evolution and reactive power level and low godly regeneration with miracle and deathdealing and reality warping with the visionary and misfortune redirection with the balance.
Click to expand...
These are actually good arguments not gonna lie

Intangibility is countered by Phasing or Hax
Dura Neg is a good argument
RE and RPL is only good is Ultron doesn't Incap him quick enough
Regen is great Argument
Death Dealing is questionable giving Ultron has IP2
RW of Yhwach is 3-D while Ultron RW comes from a 4-D power source
Misfortune Redirection can be countered by Cosmic Awareness and Clairvoyance
 
Ss3micah said:
That's sounds like Rewriting the Past to make something not Occur not changing the future
That's the equivalent of Saying Yhwach could change fate so the That Ichigo never meets Rukia and becomes a soul reaper
Click to expand...
Yhwach can just transform into ultron since the yourself allows you to copy the appearance, memories and equipment of the opponent.
 
speedster352 said:
Yhwach can just transform into ultron since the yourself allows you to copy the appearance, memories and equipment of the opponent.
Click to expand...
What's the point of using the Yourself?
Yhwach can't Mimic 4-D powers nor the Stone which were made from 4-D energy
He would literally just be base Ultron

Plus I don't think you can use Schrifts when the OP never included Schrifts Key


And honestly
What stops Ultron just Galaxy Nuking and if ultron doesn't Have Schrifts seeing as how OP said Soul King key
How is he gonna come back from a Galaxy Nuke in the Face?
 
Ss3micah said:
What's the point of using the Yourself?
Yhwach can't Mimic 4-D powers nor the Stone which were made from 4-D energy
He would literally just be base Ultron

Plus I don't think you can use Schrifts when the OP never included Schrifts Key


And honestly
What stops Ultron just Galaxy Nuking and if ultron doesn't Have Schrifts seeing as how OP said Soul King key
How is he gonna come back from a Galaxy Nuke in the Face?
Click to expand...
Yhwach precogs it also he has incorperablity and cosmic awareness also yhwach can survive in space
 
Ss3micah said:
What's the point of using the Yourself?
Yhwach can't Mimic 4-D powers nor the Stone which were made from 4-D energy
He would literally just be base Ultron

Plus I don't think you can use Schrifts when the OP never included Schrifts Key


And honestly
What stops Ultron just Galaxy Nuking and if ultron doesn't Have Schrifts seeing as how OP said Soul King key
How is he gonna come back from a Galaxy Nuke in the Face?
Click to expand...
What stops yhwach from nuking the universe?
 
Ss3micah said:
Ultron can counteract Precog with his own Clairvoyance and Multiversal Cosmic Awareness
Click to expand...
I've already been over this. Ultron's cosmic awareness is only on his profile due to him being able to sense the watcher. There's no evidence that Ultron's extremely limited cosmic awareness would even help him in battle. Ultron wasn't even aware of the watcher's plan to defeat him, and wasn't initially aware of Nat and Clint finding Zola. This idea that he can somehow overcome Yhwach's insane fate hax is laughable at best, even if you do believe Ultron wins this fight.
Ss3micah said:
Plus what is Precog actually gonna do here?
Ultron can easily Move across Multiverse Ranges with Dimensional Travel and that Almighty doesn't have feats of tracking beings across Multiversal distances
Click to expand...
1. Yhwach's precog would literally allow him to predict any move Ultron takes and properly react to it before any movement or attack is launched. Ultron literally has not shown any resistance to anything on the level of almighty.

2. Yhwach can selectively choose realities/timelines in which a desired outcome will happen in order to gain the advantage in a fight, which would clearly counteract anything Ultron could do to win, even if he "could" simply just run away from the fight to a different reality. It doesn't change the fact that Yhwach would still eventually win.
Ss3micah said:
So Ultron can easily evade Almighty by moving out of its sight range
Click to expand...
How would Ultron move out of almighy's range? Yhwach can literally see all outcomes of the fight before Ultron even launches his first attack.
Ss3micah said:
1. He did use it against the Avengers
Click to expand...
When? Send the clip that shows him using it, and prove why Yhwach wouldn't stop him from using it before he does.
Ss3micah said:
2. Its listed in his profile that he can use the powers of the Infinite Gauntlet which States ), Time Manipulation (The Time Stone can rewind, speed up and stop time)
Click to expand...
That's not Ultron, that's Dr Strange from the main reality. We don't know if the stones from the world of Infinity Ultron have the exact same capabilities as the normal one, so this is a non-argument.
Ss3micah said:
Precog is counteracted by Clairvoyance and Cosmic Awareness
Click to expand...
1. How is Clairvoyance gonna help here, and how is Ultron having knowledge on Yhwach's ability gonna help him avoid it?

2. We've already been over this. Ultron only has cosmic awareness because of sensing the Watcher. There's no evidence that this would help him in a fight against Yhwach, as Ultron was initially unaware of the watchers plan, nat and clint's plan, or the existence of characters like Strange Supreme. it's clearly extremely limited and wont help him in a fight against characters with vastly superior hax.
Ss3micah said:
Is he gonna evolve into a being with 4-D power and resistances? Cause if not then no amount of evolving is putting him on par with 4-D powers
Click to expand...
I listed reactive evolution because of his ability to make anything he sees in the future incapable of harming him or defeating him. Likewise, Yhwach is able to selectively switch and swap timelines to his liking, which already makes him 4-dimensional, at least power wise. This is another point that is moot and cant be debated, even if you do believe Ultron wins. Yhwach is clearly 4-D.
Ss3micah said:
Fate Gets Resisted
Click to expand...
No it doesn't, and you've failed to explain why. Also see above:

"Ultron's fate hax resistance is pretty limited and pales in comparison to Yhwach's fate hax abilities. The mechanics of the watcher's fate hax is still vague and clearly limited, as he himself didn't even know if Clint and Nat were gonna find Zola. I guess they have fate resistance, too."

Ss3micah said:
Ultron can Incapacitate Yhwach
Click to expand...
How?
Ss3micah said:
Its not treated as limited resistance and the Fate Hax of the Watchers spans over a Multiverse way more complicated than Bleach verse
Click to expand...
Whether or not its "treated" that way isn't the point. The fact of the matter is, it's clearly limited, as the Watcher wasn't aware of whether or not nat and clint were gonna find Zola, and he didn't know if they were gonna win the battle against Ultron.

Oh, and vaguely proclaiming it to be "way more complicated" than bleach isn't an argument.
Ss3micah said:
Infinite Worlds trump the many worlds Yhwach can possibly see
Click to expand...
Except the Watcher clearly is not aware of every outcome of every event, therefore his cosmic awareness is limited. And Yhwach can see any possible future, not "many worlds".
Ss3micah said:
Ummm No
Click to expand...
Yes, he does.
Ss3micah said:
Yhwach does not have 4-D power
Where is that even shown or stated?
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the power to casually manipulate time, see the timestream as a whole, and switch and swap realities/timelines counts as a 4-Dimensional ability, does it not?
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
Can Ultron even see Yhwach?
Click to expand...
Likely given Ultron has Enhanced Senses and ESP on a Multiversal scale and the Soul Stone which allows its users to see and affect souls
speedster352 said:
Yhwach precogs it also he has incorperablity and cosmic awareness also Yhwach can survive in space
Click to expand...
If Incorporeality and Self Sustenance comes from Schriffs
Stop using Schriffs
OP mentioned Up to Soul King Key

Also
Ultron has Multiversal Clairvoyance and Cosmic Awareness so he can counteract Precog
And Yhwach surviving in space doesn't mean he can fight Ultron in space
Again Yhwach has no feats or experience when it comes to fighting I'm space
Ultron does

speedster352 said:
What stops yhwach from nuking the universe?
Click to expand...
1. Ultron would see it coming from miles away
2. Ultron's nuke is thought based, Yhwach's nuke is not
3. Ultron can move across timelines and dimensions to escape whatever Nuke Yhwach could through at him
speedster352 said:
Yhwach can just absorb ultron or strip him of his powers
Click to expand...
Sure he can NOT
Because Ultron has Clairvoyance, ESP and Cosmic Awareness so he would see it coming and he can escape/negate Absorption with RW and/or Matter Manipulation

Plus How is Yhwach gonna strip away 4-D power?
speedster352 said:
Also the balance and other schrifts can ignore durability
Click to expand...
OP never mention Schriffs Key is in Play
He only mentioned up to Soul King Key
Stop using Schriffs

But just to entertain the argument
How would Balance counter Galaxy Nuke?
 
theultimate5105 said:
You literally replied saying that soul crush would work on him
Click to expand...
Yes, because Ultron is literally powered by it. Even if it didn't work, I never brought it up in my original comment.
theultimate5105 said:
Ultron is explicitly called out as a exception of the watchers sight unlike others which can just be plot holes
Click to expand...
Why are core plots in the story being hand waved as "plot holes" here?
theultimate5105 said:
Are you even arguing here he has no feats of nulling 4-D stuff so he cannot null the infinity stones which have 4-D powers
Click to expand...
yhwach has feats of interacting with and affecting 4-D structures. So why wouldn't he be able to properly react to the stones again?
 
No yhwach has self sustainace from his base form check his profile and incoperabity comes from absorbing the soul king and he can revive himself with the almighty.
 
Okay
Let's all get back to square one before this becomes Confusing AF

WHAT ARE THE WINCONS FOR YHWACH AND ULTRON???
 
Ss3micah said:
Okay
Let's all get back to square one before this becomes Confusing AF

WHAT ARE THE WINCONS FOR YHWACH AND ULTRON???
Click to expand...
Precog and absorbs ultron and even if fate manipulation does not work on ultron yhwach can use it on himself to revive himself multiple times
 
Ss3micah said:
Likely given Ultron has Enhanced Senses and ESP on a Multiversal scale and the Soul Stone which allows its users to see and affect souls

If Incorporeality and Self Sustenance comes from Schriffs
Stop using Schriffs
OP mentioned Up to Soul King Key

Also
Ultron has Multiversal Clairvoyance and Cosmic Awareness so he can counteract Precog
And Yhwach surviving in space doesn't mean he can fight Ultron in space
Again Yhwach has no feats or experience when it comes to fighting I'm space
Ultron does


1. Ultron would see it coming from miles away
2. Ultron's nuke is thought based, Yhwach's nuke is not
3. Ultron can move across timelines and dimensions to escape whatever Nuke Yhwach could through at him

Sure he can NOT
Because Ultron has Clairvoyance, ESP and Cosmic Awareness so he would see it coming and he can escape/negate Absorption with RW and/or Matter Manipulation

Plus How is Yhwach gonna strip away 4-D power?

OP never mention Schriffs Key is in Play
He only mentioned up to Soul King Key
Stop using Schriffs

But just to entertain the argument
How would Balance counter Galaxy Nuke?
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Yhwach already absorbed the Schriff when he became Soul King, @TOAAPRESENCE1 ?
 
OMG Lolol
Its literally 4 on 1 Lolol😭😭😭
Can you all stop commenting so fast and give me a chance to respond 😂😂😂
 
so here's the information we've gathered:

1. The watcher and Ultron have an extremely limited version of cosmic awareness, due to the fact that they themselves were unaware of of important events happening in their own verse.

2. We know that Ultron cant resistance Yhwach's almighty, as the watcher'c cosmic awareness is extremely limited.

3. We know that Yhwach knows any move Ultron will do before he does it

How is Ultron winning this again?
 
FYI: clairvoyance and cosmic awareness does not prevent or help against precognition
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
(Yhwach also has cosmic awareness btw)
Click to expand...
True
I never mentioned he could prevent Yhwach from Precoging him, that is still gonna happen
I was just saying that Clairvoyance and Cosmic Awareness would put them both on fairly even ground

speedster352 said:
Precog and absorbs ultron and even if fate manipulation does not work on ultron yhwach can use it on himself to revive himself multiple times
Click to expand...
Yhwach reviving himself cannot be stopped so good point
I would wager Soul Hax and Death Hax could do something against it because he would have to be alive to use Almighty

Don't take this comment too seriously though cause Soul and Death Hax aren't IC moves

TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
or change his locations or prepare stuff before hand
Click to expand...
Okay but
Ultron can teleport across timelines and dimensions
Plus he could use Cosmic Awareness to be aware of what Yhwach is doing before hand

Swerzye29038 said:
so here's the information we've gathered:

1. The watcher and Ultron have an extremely limited version of cosmic awareness, due to the fact that they themselves were unaware of of important events happening in their own verse.
Click to expand...
Not sure what impact that would have on the debate
Swerzye29038 said:
2. We know that Ultron cant resistance Yhwach's almighty, as the watcher'c cosmic awareness is extremely limited.
Click to expand...
Why doesn't Ultron have limited fate resistance then?
Sorry but unless its changed to limited I don't ink we can treat it as such
Swerzye29038 said:
3. We know that Yhwach knows any move Ultron will do before he does it
Click to expand...
True
Swerzye29038 said:
How is Ultron winning this again?
Click to expand...
Galaxy Nuke
Even if Yhwach rewrites the Future to another Future Ultron fan still resort to Galaxy Nuke

And even then doesn't that mean the match falls into In on territory
As Ultron can't put down Yhwach cause Almighty but Yhwach has no solid way to defeat Ultron either
 
Bruh, I think this is a valid match with "all mighty gg" and "soul crush gg" not here?
Swerzye29038 said:
so here's the information we've gathered:

1. The watcher and Ultron have an extremely limited version of cosmic awareness, due to the fact that they themselves were unaware of of important events happening in their own verse.

2. We know that Ultron cant resistance Yhwach's almighty, as the watcher'c cosmic awareness is extremely limited.

3. We know that Yhwach knows any move Ultron will do before he does it

How is Ultron winning this again?
Click to expand...

Seeing everything that has happened, will happen and could have happened of the entire 2A multiverse is extremely limited and inferior to all mighty?
 
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