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Yhwach 5-B Downgrade

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AppleLord

AppleLord

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Before someone says this is against the rules let me quote a staff member fast: "Shutting down a legitamate discussion just because the topic is banned is silly. New arguments, discoveries or people who are better at debating for it pop up. We should always stay openminded. One of the longest banned topics in this site's history was actually accepted just today."-Ryukama

Now for the Topic.


Previous thread claim: "Yhwach only affected the passage of souls" through Soul Regulation because that's the job of the Soul King.

The thing is Yhwach isn't holding the Worlds with Soul Regulation but with his own Power/Reiatsu.

Both instances it states he's using power, not Soul Regulation.

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Yhwach even states that absorbing the Soul King gave him more power then he expected.

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Also that the Soul King had Seals on and when Yhwach absorb him it broke the seals which allowed him to use the Soul King's full power which is why he was able to hold it together with Power and not Soul Regulation.

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There's also the fact that in the Canon Light Novel it is stated if they couldn't use Yhwach corps as the Soul King then they would have used Ichigo.

  • Ichigo didn't absorb the Soul King.
  • Ichigo does not have any Soul Regulation abilities.
This basically proves power along can hold the words together.

Destruction of the three worlds:

Yhwach said he had the power to destroy them with his own power. Nowhere is mention anything related to a regulation of souls during the final events, and Ichigo was been hurt by Yhwach's reiatsu is physical.

The event that happens when the worlds collapse because of the balance is this:

The Final event:

There's no evidence canonically that say that the words can collapse if the Soul King (a corpse) willingly agrees to it. Otherwise, SK Yhwach wouldn't have crossed the dimensions to do it. The worlds were shown to collapse when the Soul King dies from the Soul King Dimension there was no need for Yhwach to be present in Soul Society if he was using hax instead of his own power like he claimed.

Basically there's no evidence saying Yhwach or the Soul King are using a Soul Regulation hax likeability, but their own power.
 
My dude, the only way the worlds collapse is through the disregulation of the flow of souls, that's it. They don't need to rub it in your face because it is 100% obvious and self-evident.

Of course Yhwach or the Soul King will use their Reiatsu to hold the worlds, you know why? Because they need a powerful Reiatsu to regulate the flow of souls. Everything that a Shinigami or a Quincy does is through Reiatsu. That's where all their power comes from, including stuff like Hax. And regulating the flow of souls throughout three realities takes a lot of power, a power only the Soul King and a few others have.

The Often-repeated Yhwach sca where he madly screams about how he will erase the worlds doesn't prove anything, the worlds were collapsing due to a lack of a Soul King, and they would merge into one. And he would erase Ichigo as well, this through his power which was destroying the nearby area (Don't give me nothing about Yhwach's darkness collapsing the worlds as there is 0 evidence for that).

Yhwach's power was the power he gained after he absorbed the Soul King, the Soul King's power is the regulation of the flow of souls. That's exactly how the worlds can collapse and merge. This is explained since the first Arc of the Manga.

There is no other canon way.
 
Not a bleach man but it does just say "His Power" not that soul regulation thing.

It's true Ichigo didn't absorb the Soul King or has any Soul Regulation abilities but it could be argued they would teach him said abilities but it might still half to be about his power otherwise they would've picked anyone and just thought them said abilities.

I'm not in agreement as I would like to see the arguments against this if I'm still online at the time but this seems ok at first glance.
 
"His power" doesn't have to mean raw power, it can also mean the power to regulate souls.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
My dude, the only way the worlds collapse is through the disregulation of the flow of souls, that's it. They don't need to rub it in your face because it is 100% obvious and self-evident.

Of course Yhwach or the Soul King will use their Reiatsu to hold the worlds, you know why? Because they need a powerful Reiatsu to regulate the flow of souls.
Click to expand...
This

Matter of fact, I always thought this was the case. Needing enough power to regulate the flow of souls as clearly not just anyone can do that.
 
> Ichigo doesn't have Soul Regulation abilities but has enough reiatsu to replace the Soul King.

> Yhwach's reiatsu is destroying the area along with Ichigo.

> There's no flow of souls present or mention in the final event. We only see Yhwach's reiatsu.
 
The Everlasting said:
"His power" doesn't have to mean raw power, it can also mean the power to regulate souls.
Click to expand...

This. this thread is just a repeat of the later one.

"Yhwach said he was using his power"

When this power is the power of the Soul King, which Apple showed in his scan above overwhelmed Yhwach initially, and as anyone knows isn't a destructive power.
 
There is a reason why this is under the discussion rules, i will close the other threads about this topic while keeping this one.
 
AppleLord said:
> Ichigo doesn't have Soul Regulation abilities but has enough reiatsu to replace the Soul King.
> Yhwach's reiatsu is destroying the area along with Ichigo.

> There's no flow of souls present or mention in the final event. We only see Yhwach's reiatsu.
Click to expand...
By being placed as the new Soul King Ichigo would become the new lynchpin which would regulate the flow of souls. Yhwach's corpse was used for that. You don't need to have that prior to becoming the Soul King.

>Destroying a small area is somehow proof of destroying three worlds.

Okay. Furthermore, the worlds weren't literally going to be destroyed. They were merging in the sense that there would be no difference between life and death, human life and afterlife. Yhwach's goal was to end mortality, not blow up reality.

>There's no flow of souls present

Do you need everything to be chewed-fed to you like a baby bird? The entire manga has repeatedly established the necessity of a balanced flow of souls, and that this is the Soul King's function. Then Yhwach obtains the power of the soul king and uses it to make the worlds merge, obviously by disregulating the flow of souls. That's literally it.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.
 
You do realize soul regulation would just be crazy level soul manipulating right?

And literally the entire verse not having soul-like feats is pretty inane.
 
The Everlasting said:
"His power" doesn't have to mean raw power, it can also mean the power to regulate souls.
Click to expand...
That can go both ways tho.

Not saying it doesn't mean that, just saying. We would half to not use that in any argument weather agreeing with it or not.
 
Also, just for future reference, yes bringing up a banned topic is alright as long as you have new points.

This doesn't fit that bill and is just a blatent repeat of old stuff. So going off of ones word to try and make an attempt at getting a banned topic through won't really fly.
 
Nobody is simply assuming one out of favouritism. We assume it because it is what the series has established since before even the Soul Society arc.

"Regulating the flow of souls or else the worlds collapse and merge." is literally the reason why the Shinigami exist, why the Quincy were genocided, and what the Soul King does 24/7.

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I agree with Matt 100%

For "power", since its literally established that the flow of souls is what's doing that at the very start of the series, it should be taken as that until actual raw power is proven otherwise.
 
>The literal power-source of every character in the Bleach verse is called a power

Geez, I wonder why.

You do realize that Hax takes energy to execute as well, right? Or else any sorcerer character in any fiction would be able to cast and weave infinite hax spells without ever getting tired.
 
Once again, I agree with Matthew. Yhwach merging the living world, Soul Society and Heuco Mundo isn't something applicable to his AP or durability; it's large-scale soul hax which results in the natural destruction of the world per Bleach cosmology.

Just like how the worlds will collapse if any random Quincy destroys too many Hollow souls. That doesn't make every random Quincy planet-level.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Not a bleach man but it does just say "His Power" not that soul regulation thing.

It's true Ichigo didn't absorb the Soul King or has any Soul Regulation abilities but it could be argued they would teach him said abilities but it might still half to be about his power otherwise they would've picked anyone and just thought them said abilities.

I'm not in agreement as I would like to see the arguments against this if I'm still online at the time but this seems ok at first glance.
Click to expand...
They were not gonna teach him a Soul Regulation ability but seal him up like a corpse.

> "…that is why, in the worst case scenario, it would have been Ichigo kun that is being sealed under that name"

> "I'm also pleased for that boy. To reach a point where we would be unable to talk to him would be somewhat lonesome huh?"
 
Also the fact that the worlds weren't going to crash in a literal planetary collision and explode. Their barriers would merge and there would be no distinction between life, death, afterlife and rebirth. That was Yhwach's goal, making it so that the cycle of life and death didn't exist anymore so people wouldn't live in fear of death.

People act like he was Frieza wanting to blow up the Earth.
 
even if we were to agree that Yhwach last attack(chain reaction) = 5-B no one will get scale from 5-B not even Yhwach normal AP
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Nobody is simply assuming one out of favouritism. We assume it because it is what the series has established since before even the Soul Society arc.
Click to expand...
Who are you directing this comment to?, As I never said anyone was picking one out of favoritism. I just didn't see anyone bring any scan against it (On this thread) until you did just now.
 
Again, soul-hax in Bleach is like the most basic thing for them to have in ways you can't even count. Its the basis of the verse.

A Bleach character not having soul-related abilities would be ridiculous.
 
@Apple

I literally said that. You don't need to control souls as a normal Quincy. You just need to have a high-enough Reiatsu to allow you to be sealed as the Soul King, and then you would naturally become the "cog" which makes the whole "machine" of the flow of souls work.
 
> Matthew event argument is about the Soul King's death.

> I'm discussing Yhwach's event which was shown to be completely different.

> Since when is Screw attack accurate?

When the Soul King died a lot of dimensions were affected in seconds.

When Yhwach did it it was only affecting two worlds.

If it was the balance like Matthew claims, all of the worlds would have been affected and not just two of them.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Also the fact that the worlds weren't going to crash in a literal planetary collision and explode. Their barriers would merge and there would be no distinction between life, death, afterlife and rebirth. That was Yhwach's goal, making it so that the cycle of life and death didn't exist anymore so people wouldn't live in fear of death.

People act like he was Frieza wanting to blow up the Earth.
Click to expand...
This makes this "feat" sound even less impressive.
 
Genetic Fallacy is a terrible thing. I've seen accurate things sprout from virtually every website from time to time.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
This makes this "feat" sound even less impressive.
Click to expand...
YhwachDeath1
YhwachDeath2
Clearly, Yhwach forgot to mention to Ichigo that people wouldn't live in fear of death had he succeeded because they'd all be dead in the first place.
 
@Matt I agree I wish people would stop this it comes from a certain site so it's instantly wrong BS
 
Also, the reason why Ichigo has enough power to be the Soul King but doesn't have soul regulation powers is because he was never made into a Soul King; it is a process since Mimihagi / Ukitake didn't immediately take over the mantle of Soul King when the first one died. Mimihagi had to physically go up to the Soul King palace and attach to the body of the Soul King to stabilize things.
 
@Matt

From that scan it sounds like Yhwach was planning on bringing together all the worlds... He would need the Soul Kings Power to do this through the Regulation of Souls or not?.
 
Yes he would. It's how the worlds can merge in the first place. Literally any Quincy can do it by killing way too many Hollows.
 
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