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Seems more talking about the tree not the timelines itself
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God of War Yggdrasil Low 1-C Justification
- Thread starter Aetheric Pariah
- Start date
- Status
Seems more talking about the tree not the timelines itself
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Here is the scan for endless futures/timelines.
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So, is that card-game canon?
Because if so, I can see a "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A" rating here.
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Unless theres something im missing, within that context it clearly looks like endless=infinite, as its coming the writers, an omniscient source right?
Hellbeast
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What’s the context for the timelines thing
Like are they concurrently existing or “potential” timelines (in the sense they’re futures that could emerge?)
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So, is somebody here willing to apply this, or should we discuss the issue more first?
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I'd like some more further clarifications from the verse experts/knowledgeables first.
Once the misconceptions are cleared, I think we can apply the rating.
So I'd like Shmooply and NeoTengus to elaborate a bit more.
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Elaborate on what?
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This.
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Just eyeballing it, in the context of the scan it seems they already exist.
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Also NeoTengus said that he was in the midst of looking for the interviews and stuff.
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I was looking for interviews where the card designers confirmed it was canon and that they even had Santa Monica team supervise every step of the way. I stopped looking when the other user already said it was accepted as canon. But I can resume again if we are hoping to find some other info.
As for Hellbeast's question. The context of the scan implies the timelines already exist simultaneously within the Well of Urd.
(like decks of cards exist at once you might say. Har har.)
The card game itself supports that idea because the premise of the card game is that player(s) are the Norns themselves. Looking for endless permutations and sequences of events for some path that can stop or at least delay ragnarok.
Seeing as you, the Norn, can replay the same scenarios as many times as you want even if they are failures, it supports the idea that the timelines all exist simultaneously. And not that some are only potential timelines; i.e. become actualized or made impossible by certain steps.
As for Hellbeast's question. The context of the scan implies the timelines already exist simultaneously within the Well of Urd.
(like decks of cards exist at once you might say. Har har.)
The card game itself supports that idea because the premise of the card game is that player(s) are the Norns themselves. Looking for endless permutations and sequences of events for some path that can stop or at least delay ragnarok.
Seeing as you, the Norn, can replay the same scenarios as many times as you want even if they are failures, it supports the idea that the timelines all exist simultaneously. And not that some are only potential timelines; i.e. become actualized or made impossible by certain steps.
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NeoTengus makes sense to me.
2B, likely 2A.
2B, likely 2A.
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I see. I thought the same thing. Aight. I can accept this.
All that's left now is to just also add the interviews as well and after that we'll be able to carry out the edits.
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This thread isn't for scaling.
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Not really in this case, each branch of Yggdrasil is a timeline, they can destroy some branch in their fight, but that's just destroying several Low 2-C structures, as each branch is a timeline, destroying the whole tree would be 2-A (or 2-B, depend of how we take the statement), but they didnt destroyed the whole tree, so, that's it, also, this is not really the appropriate thread to this, as Gilver said, this thread isn't for scaling
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Agreed. Let the scaling be done elsewhere.
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Eh. Each branch is not a timeline. Where did you get that from?
The thread isn't for scaling but the statement wasn't that they broke random branches, but that "their clash so violently shakes the tree of life that it splinters." A splintered tree is a destroyed tree by every accompanying example image of such.
Edit:
Anyway, here is at least three timestamps where they confirm the card game is canon:
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Don't want to derail, but splinter just means a small, thin, sharp piece of wood, glass, or similar material broken off from a larger piece, and if theres no quantification of the size of the splinter, you can't really use that to scale.
But i don't think this should be discussed rn, this thread isn't meant for thor, kratos, or the big snek
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Sadly we're doing just what we said we dont want to do. But regarding definitions, not quite. A splinter, (singular), is a single sharp piece of something. But that's a noun.
The very first definition of splintered as a verb on google through Oxford comes up as "break or cause to break into small sharp fragments"
Fragmentation is literally referred to.
Likewise looking up images of splintered trees only brings up pictures of trees that could only be categorized unambiguously as destroyed.
No usage of the phrase splintered tree in common language that I see refers to anything that would resemble insignificant shavings so small as to be an infinitesimal fraction of the whole tree.
And Mimir's language definitely does not point that way either, seeing as he mentioned the whole tree shaking. Evokes the same imagery as a tree shaking in a storm before being broken from the strain.
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Hellbeast
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Hmm, while that’s fine that seems to be very much going by interpretation rather then what we actually know of the Norns. The nature of their “peering into timelines” seems relatively mysterious (like if it’s Precog it wouldn’t be a Multiverse but what if it’s just clairvoyance?) and I feel that really does impact the outcome
I’m fine with a 2-B, likely 2-A rating for now but I feel we might get more evidence for or against this come Ragnarok (since iirc the Norns like Skuld are making appearances) and then see if that changes how we view Yggdrasil.
Works for now tho
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The best evidence of these all being simultaneously existing timelines comes from the timestamp in the second video.
The card designer says that Baldur dying in the actual game was a trigger for Ragnarok as we all obviously know, so in the card game killing Baldur is one of the game over conditions you want to avoid.
If you fight Baldur in the card game, the objective becomes to subdue him instead of killing him, otherwise you will trigger Ragnarok regardless of what you did before.
The card designer says that Baldur dying in the actual game was a trigger for Ragnarok as we all obviously know, so in the card game killing Baldur is one of the game over conditions you want to avoid.
If you fight Baldur in the card game, the objective becomes to subdue him instead of killing him, otherwise you will trigger Ragnarok regardless of what you did before.
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That could just be what some people think splinter means, it doesn't necessarily or always mean the complete destruction of the object in question. If there is no way to quantify the size of the splinter, then we cannot assume its size. For all we know it could be 10%, 90%, 1%, 0.000000000000000001%, or an infinitesimal portion of the tree.
People can just as easily refer to splintering as small or big fragments, even if its uncommon, or even if it seems ridiculous to you. Thats exactly why on the yggdrasil page theres a note specifically telling you NOT to attempt to scale thor or kratos that way.
He didn't say the entire tree was shaking. Again for all we know they could be shaking a part of the tree, not necessarily its entirety.
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Guys, keep the scaling part for later. This thread is just for determining what cosmology the tree falls under.
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sigh....guess we're too far gone now to stop the de-railing.
No, not 'some people'. That's exclusively what google images provides as a reference for 'Splintered Tree' as an image search. In which case it always shows examples of tree trunks broken to the point where it leaves stumps of varying sizes.
The word splintered as a verb explicitly refers to making fragments of an object. The only additional caveat is that the fragments tend to be pointy/sharp. It does not mean break off a single sharp piece.
Don't put words in my mouth please. I never said 'complete destruction'. Just destroyed. A tree broken in half is a destroyed tree. I'm not saying its violent fragmentation, let alone pulverization or atomization, but just basic entry level fragmentation--hell, saying they simply broke the tree in half would not be out of the question at all since not a single 'splintered tree' reference image shows anything less than that.
I'm aware of what the entry says, and it is one of the most needless and head scratching examples of sophistry in interpreting common language usage on this wiki. And its incorrect, as I showed above. The very first Oxford dictionary usage of splintering refers to reducing things to sharp fragments, plural, not singular.
Would anyone put up this sort of pedantic stonewalling type of questioning if a statement said a "the force of the blow splintered a planet?"
He said "their clash so violently shakes the tree of life that it splinters." Again it takes a rather willfully irrational stance to take that to mean an insignificant piece of bark or a twig was shaken, such to the point that only an infinitely smaller piece of the whole structure was broken off.
If you have a single reference of the word 'splintered' used for any object, (so not limited to just trees) to mean a single, insignificant volume wise, sharp piece was broken off, I will gladly concede the point however.
But right now, 'splintered glass', or 'splintered boulders' all seem to yield the same sort of result as splintered tree for me in my searches. Which all seems to fall under the basic fragmentation definition of the wiki.
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Ill just take this to your page, i won't derail the thread further
Hellbeast
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That’s the thing though, Baldur’s death was always prophesied, it’s implied by Mimir when talking about Fimbulwinter
Considering it’s specifically mentioned as prophecy rather then alternate timeline viewing that might not be evidence FOR these all existing at once
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I'm not sure I understand your point. In the game, Baldur is killed, Ragnarok is triggered.
In the card game, you can avoid killing Baldur all together. Or hell you can avoid even fighting him at all. Ragnarok can be triggered in the card game even without killing Baldur depending on the scenario.
Both the various scenarios of the card game take place alternatively to the story of the main game--e.g. it uses Kratos, Atreus, Mimir etc as we know them in the 2018 game's time frame. That's concurrent evidence to me.
In the card game, you can avoid killing Baldur all together. Or hell you can avoid even fighting him at all. Ragnarok can be triggered in the card game even without killing Baldur depending on the scenario.
Both the various scenarios of the card game take place alternatively to the story of the main game--e.g. it uses Kratos, Atreus, Mimir etc as we know them in the 2018 game's time frame. That's concurrent evidence to me.
Hellbeast
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I'll try to reword it
I'm thinking of the potential timelines thing there because it's prophesized Baldur dies a very different death then he does in 2018 but then Kratos "changed" something somehow and that brought forward events by 100 years.
It implies precognitive foresight isn't infallible and that these timelines CAN be changed. We kinda see this via Odin's belief too but this is, admittedly, less an argument so much as me pointing out we don't have a lot of context here. Do changes simply lead to an alternative chain of events spiralling outward ala Dragon Ball and the MCU or is it more like Back to the Future where there's one timeline that can shift.
Mostly just food for thought since we don't necessarily have full context on what "possibilities" means beyond interpretation. As I've said it works, just think it should be more of a "possibly 2-A" part of the tiering rather then the main meat and potatoes if that makes sense
I'm thinking of the potential timelines thing there because it's prophesized Baldur dies a very different death then he does in 2018 but then Kratos "changed" something somehow and that brought forward events by 100 years.
It implies precognitive foresight isn't infallible and that these timelines CAN be changed. We kinda see this via Odin's belief too but this is, admittedly, less an argument so much as me pointing out we don't have a lot of context here. Do changes simply lead to an alternative chain of events spiralling outward ala Dragon Ball and the MCU or is it more like Back to the Future where there's one timeline that can shift.
Mostly just food for thought since we don't necessarily have full context on what "possibilities" means beyond interpretation. As I've said it works, just think it should be more of a "possibly 2-A" part of the tiering rather then the main meat and potatoes if that makes sense
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So far it seems that we have most likely agreed upon a "likely/possibly 2-A" rating alongside the already-existing "2-B" rating for Yggdrasil.
We're not gonna touch scaling here anyway since that isn't the purpose of this thread.
If NeoTengus can word the justification correctly with all the links, I think we should be good to go.
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