Yet another Sonic revision...Sonic 3 & Knuckles style (Mostly)

[Bobsican]

Aren´t the Chaos only avaiable if going along Cream? After all, it´s clearly Cheese.

 

[Dark649]

It should be discussed with other Admins since that was doubted by them.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that invulnerability was also added to the Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Pre-Genesis Wave) and Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Post-Super Genesis Wave) pages yesterday. Should we remove that as well? It does seem like hyperbole.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Antvasima Difference is Archie Sonic comics make it clear that they're nigh-unstoppable with several people in-continuity commenting on their invulnerability, I even have the scans listed with it. The two continuities are vastly different.

Dark649 also seemed to agree with it.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

The only times Super Forms were harmed (As in lose rings for context) is only if a character has the same power source as them. Hence why Egg Salamander and Solaris was able to harm the likes like Super Sonic. And Chaos Energy is very dependant on the user too. Some of which like Shadow who supposedly died from his Super State, Emerl overclocked when he had all 7 seven and Sonic had to go all out to stop him (only time Sonic didn't hold back), or Chaos who only absorbed the negative energy of the Emeralds and positive>negative. Plus most of the time, it has shown that the Super Forms are invulnerable more than not being invulnerable. So giving the Super States nigh-invulnerability isn't a stretch.

Also the Perfect Dark Gaia fight was extreme PIS just to make the game harder than it should be and to give us a sad ending for Chip.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that invulnerable means that you cannot be harmed at all by anything whatsoever, not just beings that are roughly comparable to yourself in terms of raw power.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Ant I can't speak for the games, but I'm pretty sure the Archie Comics specifically don't contradict invulnerability whatsoever aside from a non-canon dark timeline.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Cropfist]

Well, the problem is that invulnerable means that you cannot be harmed at all by anything whatsoever, not just beings that are roughly comparable to yourself in terms of raw power.

Should this only apply to tier 0 characters or be a no-limits fallacy otherwise?

 

[Antvasima]

I am uncertain. Games sometimes have modes when a character genuinely cannot be harmed by anything within the game in question, and it seems like the Sonic comics have adapted this attribute.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Under Dark649's permission, I've added notes onto both Archie Sonic pages clarifying their invulnerability to avoid issues.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

So if both Super Forms can harm each other, they aren't invulnerable?

 

[ShakeResounding]

I think that shows that people with comparable/stronger power can harm them, but those that are weaker can't.

We might need a CRT later on focused solely on that, but everything else aside the Game Land stuff seems to be accepted.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Yeah a CRT should be made only for the invulnerability. I believe they should be invulnerable since the only times they were shown to be hurt was by people utilizing the same power source as them.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think Dark649? If characters with comparable power can harm them, it does not seem like invulnerability to me.

 

[MYHERO]

I too agree now that it can't be invulnerability.

 

[Dark649]

Same.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Wait...so what you're saying is that even though both, let's just say Sonic and Shadow, uses the Chaos Emeralds to go Super, they can't be invulnerable cause they can harm each other and while nobody else can't via lore?

 

[Dark649]

Archie Metal Overlord likely can harm them, said being is not powered by Chaos Emeralds.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

I'm going by the games. Archie Comics is different.

 

[Dark649]

In most games when the Super char. like Sonic and Shadow are attacked, they are simply pushed back losing rings.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Dark Wouldn't that be game mechanics? Rings are only mentioned in-canon once for a throwaway line in Generations.

The thing with Archie Metal Overlord seems like speculation. If anything, that would be a Post-Gen only sort of thing due to Metal Overlord not even existing in the Pre-Gen continuity.

 

[Dark649]

Seemingly, yes.

Sonic mentioned in the Pre-Genesis Wave period that Metal Overlord happened.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Wow, good to know. Still, we don't really know what happened between them. I think it's as simple as a line trying to reference the games, but I think it's just not detailed enough to really assume anything from it.

 

[Antvasima]

So should invulnerability be removed from the profiles, and if so, is somebody willing to handle it?

 

[Dark649]

I shall do it.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for being so constantly reliable.

 

[ShakeResounding]

While I'm neutral on the Game continuity, I do still think Pre-Genesis Sonic should keep the invulnerability due to constant in-universe statements as well as his fight with Enerjak. Post-Gen is more debatable.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Do you guus think it would be better to dedicate the invulnerability topic to a seperate CRT to get a better gauge on it?

 

[Dark649]

I have done the changes, i also think the whole Invulnerabilty stuff should be discussed again and revised.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Dark Do you mean as a whole, or with the Sonic franchise specifically?

 

[Dark649]

Likely as a whole, i'd mostly want to talk about it with other users.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Like introducing different types?

If so, we can wait until that's over to bring up the topic again.

 

[Antvasima]

@Dark649

You can start a thread about it in the staff forum if you wish.

 

[Antvasima]

So, is this particular thread finished now?

 

[Dark649]

I know, but i will do so later.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@Ant Everything in the OP still needs to be added, but I won't be able to help right now. I can help later though if it's still not handled.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

In most games when the Super char. like Sonic and Shadow are attacked, they are simply pushed back losing rings.

Pushed back is in a sense of challenging the player to play "catch up". And only like a few games is where the Sonic characters lose rings when getting hit and when they do, it has to do something about the context of the story or PIS.